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CloudFox

Wesley Fofana

By CloudFox, in Transfer Talk

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Beechey

Beechey

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

But unfortunately we don't have all of the working parts that Man City do. This isn't even necessarily about quality, its about types to begin with. 

 

Our central midfield is excellent. Ndidi is our Fernandinho, he doesn't have his ball skills but he's a better defender. Tielemans is our Gundogan, he typically picks it up deep and gets everything moving, it's why we struggle without him because Praet plays a much different game. Maddison is our David Silva, quick feet, eye for a through ball. 

 

But these guys have some of the best wingers and wide players in the world to aim for. Sterling, Mahrez, B. Silva and Co are the most important players in the final third because they make the runs that pull defenders out of shape and create the spaces. 

 

We don't have anyone that really does that (unless Ricardo has made a run.) Our wingers are all pretty sub standard and none of them are really naturals there, Gray is probably the only one that's actually a truly outright wing forward and he's a Championship player that's out of his depth. 

 

It's why we're so, so desperate for better wide players and have been since we sold and didn't replace Mahrez. 

 

Every window we say the same thing and every window we fail to sign a proper one and it looks like this year will be the same. 

 

We need depth at CB, sure, but we need starting players on the wings more desperately. 

 

FWIW I agree with most of the criticisms of Rodgers style, I wrote a lengthy post the other day explaining why I think it's out of date. But he's not going to change so people need to get used to it. 

 

I don't mind having to be patient about the style, provided the push for a goal eventually comes. Unfortunately, recently it seems that we were just too passive.

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Beechey said:

I don't mind having to be patient about the style, provided the push for a goal eventually comes. Unfortunately, recently it seems that we were just too passive.

 

I don't disagree but, like I say, that's not going to change unless we sign more attacking players. 

 

Our first choice defence and midfield is actually excellent but it's utterly pointless if there's not wide players of any note to operate in the final third. 

 

Vardy can't do it all. People who moan about him not getting on the ball enough when he had quiet games need to go watch Sergio Aguero play. He's completely dependant on the wide players at City creating space and chances. He doesn't go out and win games on his own, neither did David Villa when Pep had him. 

 

Rodgers isn't going to stop trying to copy Guardiola, he's been doing it his whole career. So we either give him the players we need or we sack him and the owners then get over their obsession with us trying to play "possession football."

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Muzzy_Larsson

Muzzy_Larsson

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

 

 

Not being snarky, asking honestly, how often do people watch Man City play? Because I totally understand some people aren't that interested in watching other sides or don't have Sky / BT etc. 

 

Raheem Sterling and Riyad Mahrez, in the average game, probably pass the ball back to their centre halves more than to any other player. Quite often, a winger in a decent position will be receiving a pass and won't even control it, he'll just immediately pass it back to the CB with his first touch. 

 

They might do this, left to right, for several minutes before they go anywhere. The centre halves don't have to bring the ball "out", they don't run with the ball or need to be able to carry it far. They need to be composed on the ball, have a good first touch and be able to make a very accurate, fairly short pass to either a full back or to Gundogan. 

 

John Stones was signed for his touch and his passing, as was Laporte. Man City's defenders tend to statistically be the best passers of a ball in the Premier League. 

 

Pace helps because accidents always happen and they're going to get pressed. It's why Stones has been phased out of the team because he's not athletic enough. But it's not a defining characteristic that they're specifically recruited for because turnover of the ball should be rare and the whole team should press to win it back in proper tiki taka. Hence why guys like David Silva pick up a surprisingly high number of fouls and why Rodgers has worked so hard to get Maddison improving his defensive stats. 

 

People need to accept that Brendan Rodgers' style of football requires patience to watch. Nobody's asking you to to particularly enjoy watching that and I sympathise with people that find it frustrating but it definitely is part of the game plan. 

 

TLDR: There isn't a CB in the world we can sign that is going to change how we play, our CBs aren't supposed to be play makers, they're just a wall for the midfield to bounce passes off. 

You make a whole host of valid points there. There is a key difference you omit though, Guardiola has vast resources to go out and get the best players and those best suited to play this type of football. Because of that he can be rigid and steadfast in persisting with this style of play. Rodgers on the other hand does not have the same luxuries, he has to make the best of what he has and play in the way most effective to the players he has at his disposal, that should come before his footballing ethos but unfortunately it doesn't and it's causing some problems for him as a result. Furthermore, he ain't ever going to beat or compete with the likes of Man City by playing them at their own game, he needs to show he can adapt and cater for different types of opposition, this one dimensional approach will ultimately end up as his major undoing if he doesn't learn to adapt.

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Grey Fox

Grey Fox

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

Nope, in terms of how we played in terms of that high tempo, high pressing game we never seen it with anywhere near the same regularity again.

 

I think team's got wise to it in all honesty and that was the factor. Instead of then changing up our play and going a little more direct so we could maintain a decent tempo we switched to that boring side to side possession game most weeks.

Great!  I was hoping this was just a short term issue that he would eventually resolve. :nono:

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Scotch

Scotch

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Am I missing something with Brooks? Why are people trying to paint him with the same brush as Madders, Cantwell and Grealish? I don't follow football social media so I don't know if I've missed something but I'm not aware of him posting any videos of himself doing some oddly metrosexual dance in a 90s retro tracksuit or spending thousands on wet look hair products? 

 

He looks like his mam cuts his hair ffs. 

 

Is it basically just that he's a young, skinny footballer? Is that pretty much the whole criteria? 

Agreed, he comes across to me more in the mould of Barnes. A bit more reserved and level headed. 

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

You make a whole host of valid points there. There is a key difference you omit though, Guardiola has vast resources to go out and get the best players and those best suited to play this type of football. Because of that he can be rigid and steadfast in persisting with this style of play. Rodgers on the other hand does not have the same luxuries, he has to make the best of what he has and play in the way most effective to the players he has at his disposal, that should come before his footballing ethos but unfortunately it doesn't and it's causing some problems for him as a result. Furthermore, he ain't ever going to beat or compete with the likes of Man City by playing them at their own game, he needs to show he can adapt and cater for different types of opposition, this one dimensional approach will ultimately end up as his major undoing if he doesn't learn to adapt.

 

Don't fundamentally disagree with any of that. Like I said, I posted similar myself in the Brendan Rodgers thread recently. 

 

But you either sack or back a manager, you can't just **** around in the middle, it never works. 

 

We either want to keep Rodgers, in which case we do our best to reinforce in the areas we desperately need more quality (out wide) or we sack it off and find someone to play a different way. 

 

Rodgers has shown throughout his career he's willing to die on the Total Football hill. He's not changing. 

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Muzzy_Larsson

Muzzy_Larsson

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

Don't fundamentally disagree with any of that. Like I said, I posted similar myself in the Brendan Rodgers thread recently. 

 

But you either sack or back a manager, you can't just **** around in the middle, it never works. 

 

We either want to keep Rodgers, in which case we do our best to reinforce in the areas we desperately need more quality (out wide) or we sack it off and find someone to play a different way. 

 

Rodgers has shown throughout his career he's willing to die on the Total Football hill. He's not changing. 

Yeah fair point mate.

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sacreblueits442

sacreblueits442

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Collymore said:

From the video I just watched it looked like a compilation of last ditch tackles! 

 

 

...Benkovic was much the same in recovery tackles!!!

It is really strange that Benkovic finds himself in this position as I felt at the time he was ahead of Caglar regarding making the first team. The injuries have not helped and he needs to be playing regularly to confirm he can get back to his best.

  If he can come back to his best and Caglar sees us as a club he can grow with (he looks like a future captain) then we will have a great pairing and should we decide to play with a back three then we will be set for an old fashioned Arsenal type solid brick wall.

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UpTheLeagueFox

UpTheLeagueFox

Posted
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Posted
5 minutes ago, copunk said:

Just talking about this on talksport, said clubs are in discussions

Clubs are playing hardball with us over prices for players.

We can't complain, we've done it plenty in recent years.

Fofana though will be cheaper than Tarkowski

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StanSP

StanSP

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Blue Fox 72 said:

You're missing the point of this thread. Don't ask for reliable information on here!

Haha fair enough. I'll make it up myself! 

4 year deal, 60k/week and will be with us in readiness for the Burnley game. No buy back clause or sell on clauses. Bonuses for reaching Europe next season and any silverware won this season. 

 

:brendan: :claude:

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turtmcfly

turtmcfly

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Don't fundamentally disagree with any of that. Like I said, I posted similar myself in the Brendan Rodgers thread recently. 

 

But you either sack or back a manager, you can't just **** around in the middle, it never works. 

 

We either want to keep Rodgers, in which case we do our best to reinforce in the areas we desperately need more quality (out wide) or we sack it off and find someone to play a different way. 

 

Rodgers has shown throughout his career he's willing to die on the Total Football hill. He's not changing. 

 

No argument with this, but at the same time there doesn't seem to be a lot of friction generated from Rodgers' side over the fact that we're buying players in positions that are less important in terms of his desired style.

 

Obviously there could be all sorts of attempts going on to get at least one top class winger, but by the time we've finished buying a fifth centre back there's feck all left in the kitty even if one became available. Not to say bolstering the defence isn't a good thing to do, but it's the prioritisation that seems strange, and one I'm surprised hasn't generated at least rumours of Rodgers annoyance over it.

 

 

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majaco

majaco

Posted
Posted
On 08/09/2020 at 11:49, Jobyfox said:

Weren’t Bournemouth interested in signing Demarai Gray at one point?

 

Can’t we offer him as a makeweight? 

 

9 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Fee will be agreed within 24 hours, medical on Friday.

Itk or banterous bs?

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Foxxed

Foxxed

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Am I missing something with Brooks? Why are people trying to paint him with the same brush as Madders, Cantwell and Grealish? I don't follow football social media so I don't know if I've missed something but I'm not aware of him posting any videos of himself doing some oddly metrosexual dance in a 90s retro tracksuit or spending thousands on wet look hair products? 

 

He looks like his mam cuts his hair ffs. 

 

Is it basically just that he's a young, skinny footballer? Is that pretty much the whole criteria? 

The reason for middle-aged greying men complaining about young, confident, rich kids with their life ahead of them? It’s pity. Definitely pity.

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sacreblueits442

sacreblueits442

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

Nope, in terms of how we played in terms of that high tempo, high pressing game we never seen it with anywhere near the same regularity again.

 

I think team's got wise to it in all honesty and that was the factor. Instead of then changing up our play and going a little more direct so we could maintain a decent tempo we switched to that boring side to side possession game most weeks.

...instead of looking for more experience in the back line, we need more experience in the back room staff!!!

  A viable tactician would be nice.

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