Coronavirus Thread

[st albans fox]

15 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

They can make whatever rules they want, but I doubt the minimum wage steward would be arsed to enforce them.

100% correct but just musing as to whether ‘mask enforcement’ will remain at football grounds when on the move 

[Paninistickers]

3 hours ago, Nalis said:

I like what you've done in assessing your own circumstances and being respectful of what others around you would want, probably the sensible approach for most people to review their own circumstances and the way forward.

 

That's what some of us have been doing since literally, the first few weeks of the outbreak. 

 

Be sensible. Be respectful. Hand hygiene. 

[VLC86]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

I wonder how the football clubs will approach this. They can make the rules - will they insist on mask wearing until you’re in your seat ?  
 

I would imagine they are all desperate to avoid a scenario where someone catches covid in a stadium and then becomes ill and dies.  whilst that would statistically be just one death, they must be concerned that any events which could lead to numbers in stadia being reduced have to be avoided. 
 

 

Nobody can ever prove where you catch something, it’s a virus.

[Paninistickers]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

I wonder how the football clubs will approach this. They can make the rules - will they insist on mask wearing until you’re in your seat ?  
 

I would imagine they are all desperate to avoid a scenario where someone catches covid in a stadium and then becomes ill and dies.  whilst that would statistically be just one death, they must be concerned that any events which could lead to numbers in stadia being reduced have to be avoided. 
 

 

Easy. Just put a disclaimer as a condition of entry. Same as every other public building such as cinemas,.restaurants,.planes. 

 

In that way, the frightened can stay at home and leave the rest of us to get on with life with an element of risk

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

The mask wearing rules are just plain daft, we went to a wedding evening do last Saturday, enclosed room, approximately 100 people, you could  sit at your table without a mask but if you got up a mask had to be worn, now I know this isn’t a new rule but it was my first experience of how ludicrous it is. 

[Buce]

 

 

UK scientists caution that lifting of Covid rules is like building ‘variant factories’

 

“It is frightening to have a ‘health’ secretary who still thinks Covid is flu. Who is unconcerned at levels of infection. Who doesn’t realise that those who do best for health, also do best for the economy. Who wants to ditch all protections while only half of us are vaccinated.

“Above all, it is frightening to have a ‘health’ secretary who wants to make all protections a matter of personal choice when the key message of the pandemic is “this isn’t an ‘I’ thing, it’s a ‘we’ thing.” - Prof Stephen Reicher at the University of St Andrews

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/04/uk-scientists-caution-that-lifting-of-covid-rules-is-like-building-variant-factories

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

Does seem strange we're hell bent on opening up when cases are starting to go through the roof. I want things to go back to normal as much as anyone but if we open up as things are already going Pete tong we'll just be forced in to a full lockdown if a new variant comes out the vaccines don't work against. Obviously we all just want to live with it and get on with it and not sure anyone really knows what the answer is but it can't be dropping all restrictions because if hospitals do become overwhelmed no responsible government can just say ah well, crack on. Its all just a right mess. 

[fox_up_north]

A band I'm in had some gigs booked near the end of the month and, personally, I'm not too fussed if they're cancelled. I work agency and don't particularly want to risk having to isolate for a week. That's lost pay because I'm not able to work from home.

 

I get why people want things to open up but there's people like me who are concerned about the implications of doing so and don't trust the government to provide support when it goes wrong. 

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

Easy. Just put a disclaimer as a condition of entry. Same as every other public building such as cinemas,.restaurants,.planes. 

 

In that way, the frightened can stay at home and leave the rest of us to get on with life with an element of risk

That’s not what I’m saying - the media will be desperate to find a bad story and the clubs will be desperate that they don’t. Hence I can see clubs insisting that fans continue to wear face coverings unless seated. 

[filbertway]

47 minutes ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Does seem strange we're hell bent on opening up when cases are starting to go through the roof. I want things to go back to normal as much as anyone but if we open up as things are already going Pete tong we'll just be forced in to a full lockdown if a new variant comes out the vaccines don't work against. Obviously we all just want to live with it and get on with it and not sure anyone really knows what the answer is but it can't be dropping all restrictions because if hospitals do become overwhelmed no responsible government can just say ah well, crack on. Its all just a right mess. 

Infections will always go up and down though. The whole point of vaccines is that rising cases wont matter as they wont hit us hard. 

 

You can already see with how flat the curves are that the vaccines are kicking ass. I think if we can ride this wave whilst removing the majority of restrictions itll give people a lot more confidences

[dsr-burnley]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

 

UK scientists caution that lifting of Covid rules is like building ‘variant factories’

 

“It is frightening to have a ‘health’ secretary who still thinks Covid is flu. Who is unconcerned at levels of infection. Who doesn’t realise that those who do best for health, also do best for the economy. Who wants to ditch all protections while only half of us are vaccinated.

“Above all, it is frightening to have a ‘health’ secretary who wants to make all protections a matter of personal choice when the key message of the pandemic is “this isn’t an ‘I’ thing, it’s a ‘we’ thing.” - Prof Stephen Reicher at the University of St Andrews

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/04/uk-scientists-caution-that-lifting-of-covid-rules-is-like-building-variant-factories

I have noticed that people who want restrictions to go on and on, tend to quote vaccination stats as a percentage of the whole population, including children.  I'm not sure if this is because they believe children ought to be inoculated, which makes it sensible to include them in the stats but they ought to explain why children should be inoculated; or else if they include children simply because they want to use every subterfuge to put their case, short of actually lying.

[dsr-burnley]

39 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

That’s not what I’m saying - the media will be desperate to find a bad story and the clubs will be desperate that they don’t. Hence I can see clubs insisting that fans continue to wear face coverings unless seated. 

This is all about perception, of course.  If the media wants to spread bad news and frighten people, they can; they always could.  There must be loads of cases of old people going to football, catching something, and coming home and dying.  Most old people reach a stage when they perhaps shouldn't sit out in the cold for two hours if they want to live for ever; some of them get unlucky and don't get to make that decision.

 

If they don't concentrate on the odd coronavirus death from football, or mention it only in the same terms as they always did(n't) mention similar deaths from flu and pneumonia, then the issue won't come up.

[Otis]

1 hour ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Does seem strange we're hell bent on opening up when cases are starting to go through the roof. I want things to go back to normal as much as anyone but if we open up as things are already going Pete tong we'll just be forced in to a full lockdown if a new variant comes out the vaccines don't work against. Obviously we all just want to live with it and get on with it and not sure anyone really knows what the answer is but it can't be dropping all restrictions because if hospitals do become overwhelmed no responsible government can just say ah well, crack on. Its all just a right mess. 

But the vaccine works.

[Buce]

1 hour ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Does seem strange we're hell bent on opening up when cases are starting to go through the roof. I want things to go back to normal as much as anyone but if we open up as things are already going Pete tong we'll just be forced in to a full lockdown if a new variant comes out the vaccines don't work against. Obviously we all just want to live with it and get on with it and not sure anyone really knows what the answer is but it can't be dropping all restrictions because if hospitals do become overwhelmed no responsible government can just say ah well, crack on. Its all just a right mess. 

 

Unfortunately we don't have a responsible govt.

 

We have a Prime Minister who is an international joke, and an inept Cabinet.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

1 hour ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Does seem strange we're hell bent on opening up when cases are starting to go through the roof. I want things to go back to normal as much as anyone but if we open up as things are already going Pete tong we'll just be forced in to a full lockdown if a new variant comes out the vaccines don't work against. Obviously we all just want to live with it and get on with it and not sure anyone really knows what the answer is but it can't be dropping all restrictions because if hospitals do become overwhelmed no responsible government can just say ah well, crack on. Its all just a right mess. 

If we don’t open up just in case a new variant comes along that the vaccines don’t work against then we are stuck as we are indefinitely.

[Legend_in_blue]

48 minutes ago, Otis said:

But the vaccine works.

Do we have comparative data with exactly this point in time last year when there were no vaccinations though?

 

I seem to remember there were very few hospitalisations at this point in time.  Cases were not as overstated as they are now but then we weren't testing anywhere near as many as we are now.

 

The true benefit of the vaccine will show in the Autumn.  Until then, I wouldn't go along with solely the vaccine argument for keeping the numbers down.

 

As I have said, the true effectiveness of the vaccine will be known in the Autumn, until then, we should be doing everything we can with the health system to make sure it is as prepared as possible this winter unlike the previous 12 month govt debacle in not setting us up correctly to deal with the situation as it happened.

[st albans fox]

whilst the current widespread delta outbreak makes complete opening up seem rather counter intuitive and the worst background we could have had, it does provide masses of data for the experts vis a vis viral infections and the vaccinated population.  When they made their plans for the summer, they must have expected that they wouldn’t get this data until the late autumn at which point they would have little time to make plans for the winter. Now they will have plenty of real data as to how vaccinated people suffer when infected, whether they still have the same chance or suffering long covid and which vaccines are most effective in which circumstances. 
 

Every cloud as they say ……

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot said:

Does seem strange we're hell bent on opening up when cases are starting to go through the roof. I want things to go back to normal as much as anyone but if we open up as things are already going Pete tong we'll just be forced in to a full lockdown if a new variant comes out the vaccines don't work against. Obviously we all just want to live with it and get on with it and not sure anyone really knows what the answer is but it can't be dropping all restrictions because if hospitals do become overwhelmed no responsible government can just say ah well, crack on. Its all just a right mess. 

At some point, we have let go of the cases statistic, it’s regularly boosted by the amount of lateral flow testing carried out by workplaces etc. Over 1 million tests a day are getting registered.
 

Some of those cases will be asymptotical which up until September last year we never ever quantified - how many of that 24k is say mild symptoms for example? So we’d have been living without every recognising those mild cases in at the peak outbreaks. 
 

The self isolation / quarantine is a real mess. People are getting pinged for up to 10 days isolation for a variety of reasons despite having negative tests. Placing a stress on their own job and having to claim sick pay. 

[CosbehFox]

7 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

whilst the current widespread delta outbreak makes complete opening up seem rather counter intuitive and the worst background we could have had, it does provide masses of data for the experts vis a vis viral infections and the vaccinated population.  When they made their plans for the summer, they must have expected that they wouldn’t get this data until the late autumn at which point they would have little time to make plans for the winter. Now they will have plenty of real data as to how vaccinated people suffer when infected, whether they still have the same chance or suffering long covid and which vaccines are most effective in which circumstances. 
 

Every cloud as they say ……

Very well observed. The big plus for the stats guys/NHS staff with the extension of restrictions was the ability to take a more rounded look at the hospitalisation rates. 

[Legend_in_blue]

There's some comparative data coming from the US which makes for an interesting debate.

 

Of the following 3 states, which one ended all restrictions earliest in 2021?

 

 

 

Btw it isn't California, which is pro lockdown, pro mask, pro restrictions in general.

 

 

[dsr-burnley]

41 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Do we have comparative data with exactly this point in time last year when there were no vaccinations though?

 

I seem to remember there were very few hospitalisations at this point in time.  Cases were not as overstated as they are now but then we weren't testing anywhere near as many as we are now.

 

The true benefit of the vaccine will show in the Autumn.  Until then, I wouldn't go along with solely the vaccine argument for keeping the numbers down.

 

As I have said, the true effectiveness of the vaccine will be known in the Autumn, until then, we should be doing everything we can with the health system to make sure it is as prepared as possible this winter unlike the previous 12 month govt debacle in not setting us up correctly to deal with the situation as it happened.

June 2021:  29.25m tests,  313,000 positive cases, 6,200 hospitalisations, 360 deaths.

June 2020:  2.75m tests, 38,000 positive cases, 13,200 hospitalisations, 2,516 deaths.

 

[fox_favourite]

I don’t get the opening on the 19th. If we still only had the Alpha variant, we’d be fine. Cases were low, vaccines working well, even one jab. I would be all for it. 
 

delta comes along - more transmissible variant and is already account for nearly 30k cases, and hospitalisation increasing (slowly, granted) but we still want to unlock fully. This makes me more on edge as it could spiral out of control. I want everything lifted and yes, different lockdowns have affected my mental health. But so will opening up a country fully to something that isn’t under control. I’m more likely to get it, transmit it to vulnerable people. I wouldn’t want to go out at all and, for my sanity and reassurance, I will be going out a lot less and not visiting pubs, venues etc… it would also make me think twice to go to see out beloved team at the KP. Crowds inside and outside just makes me feel uneasy. 
 

Say what you want about me. I’m definitely not one for restrictions all the time. Hell, I so want to get back to normal, but doing it with cases touching 30k soon doesn’t make much sense. Like I say, my sanity can’t take much more. The Delta variant came from a country that was crowded and opened up too early. Would we see a Kent mk2 variant?? The only thing I can think of is that gov know they will lose control if they don’t, whatever the cost. 

[yorkie1999]

2 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

There's some comparative data coming from the US which makes for an interesting debate.

 

Of the following 3 states, which one ended all restrictions earliest in 2021?

 

 

 

Btw it isn't California, which is pro lockdown, pro mask, pro restrictions in general.

 

 

Dunno, which ones which

[Ric Flair]

4 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Do we have comparative data with exactly this point in time last year when there were no vaccinations though?

 

I seem to remember there were very few hospitalisations at this point in time.  Cases were not as overstated as they are now but then we weren't testing anywhere near as many as we are now.

 

The true benefit of the vaccine will show in the Autumn.  Until then, I wouldn't go along with solely the vaccine argument for keeping the numbers down.

 

As I have said, the true effectiveness of the vaccine will be known in the Autumn, until then, we should be doing everything we can with the health system to make sure it is as prepared as possible this winter unlike the previous 12 month govt debacle in not setting us up correctly to deal with the situation as it happened.

If the vaccine doesn't work very well then sadly a lot of people will continue to die and we'll have to put up with it. The alternative is equally as hideous, the Co sequences are sadly unavoidable. Its nasty but people darent face up to it.

[WigstonWanderer]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

If the vaccine doesn't work very well then sadly a lot of people will continue to die and we'll have to put up with it. The alternative is equally as hideous, the Co sequences are sadly unavoidable. Its nasty but people darent face up to it.

I tend to agree that things will have to get back to normal at some stage, so if vaccines are ineffective the world will have to put up with the consequences. Fortunately vaccines do appear to be having a significant effect and hopeful new and better treatments for the infected will come online.

 

If however, hospitalisations were to cause serious problems, some ongoing (perhaps periodic) restrictions would be inevitable in the short/medium term, but in the longer term health services would need to reorganise and/or expand to cope.