Coronavirus Thread

[Ric Flair]

19 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

I tend to agree that things will have to get back to normal at some stage, so if vaccines are ineffective the world will have to put up with the consequences. Fortunately vaccines do appear to be having a significant effect and hopeful new and better treatments for the infected will come online.

 

If however, hospitalisations were to cause serious problems, some ongoing (perhaps periodic) restrictions would be inevitable in the short/medium term, but in the longer term health services would need to reorganise and/or expand to cope.

Absolutely, if it honestly is at a point where hospitals are that bad again (there was still lots of back up sites not used to capacity before) and that it all goes to shit then the answer is that the health system has to provide the capacity to cope as quickly as possible to stop future heavy restrictions.

 

The alternative has an even bigger impact on quality fo life for the majority and the economy. Still no easy task finding the finances to do so but we're in a right pickle in that regard aren't we. Dread to think what happens but one things for sure, at what point is a restricted life much of a life?

 

Do we have the right as the majority who covid is not as bigger a concern to stand up and say enough is enough? Or is it right to ruin everyone's lives to show that society won't make a decision that perceives to value the minorities lives less than the fit and healthy. An absolutely horrible situation to be in bit one that has been done for as long as we've existed but ignorance was bliss before this.

[Nod.E]

4 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

At some point, we have let go of the cases statistic, it’s regularly boosted by the amount of lateral flow testing carried out by workplaces etc. Over 1 million tests a day are getting registered.
 

Some of those cases will be asymptotical which up until September last year we never ever quantified - how many of that 24k is say mild symptoms for example? So we’d have been living without every recognising those mild cases in at the peak outbreaks. 
 

The self isolation / quarantine is a real mess. People are getting pinged for up to 10 days isolation for a variety of reasons despite having negative tests. Placing a stress on their own job and having to claim sick pay. 

Simple solution, delete the app.

[st albans fox]

5 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Simple solution, delete the app.

Many have - it’s a crude device in too many instances 

 

do those living overseas have better experiences of their contact tracing apps ???

 

 

[shade]

7 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Simple solution, delete the app.

I never installed it in the first place, you may ask me if I'm ignorant or just apathetic, to be honest I don't know and I don't care.

[AllGoneTitsSchlupp]

out of interest has anyone had any luck cancelling and rebooking their 2nd jab for an earlier date? my 2nd was originally booked for 6th sept, but cancelled to try and book to get a date before the community shield game as i can imagine its negative test or double jabbed for entry. everywhere seems booked up until after the game. annoying

[Lionator]

12 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Do we have comparative data with exactly this point in time last year when there were no vaccinations though?

 

I seem to remember there were very few hospitalisations at this point in time.  Cases were not as overstated as they are now but then we weren't testing anywhere near as many as we are now.

 

The true benefit of the vaccine will show in the Autumn.  Until then, I wouldn't go along with solely the vaccine argument for keeping the numbers down.

 

As I have said, the true effectiveness of the vaccine will be known in the Autumn, until then, we should be doing everything we can with the health system to make sure it is as prepared as possible this winter unlike the previous 12 month govt debacle in not setting us up correctly to deal with the situation as it happened.

You can't compare it to exactly this point last year because that's not how epidemics work. If you can compare it to the October/November epidemic wave then when we had 25k cases a day then we had on average 412 deaths per day. Now we have 25k cases and an average of 14 deaths per day. Likewise there were 10,000 people in hospital compared to the 1,600 we have now. It's a completely different ball game, the vaccine works, by autumn everyone who wants two vaccines will have had two. 

[Guest Bert Fill]

8 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

 

Do we have the right as the majority who covid is not as bigger a concern to stand up and say enough is enough?

Ah, the ‘I’m alright Jack’ approach to health policy!

 

8 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Or is it right to ruin everyone's lives

Are most lives really that awful at the moment? We can go to pubs, cinemas, on holiday etc if we want. It’s hardly like when we were in lockdown.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m keen for life to be ‘normal’ again, and I do get why people are so keen for restrictions to be lifted. But I just don’t get the need to rush to remove all restrictions at a time when cases are rising fast. Why not at least keep the current situation until pretty much everyone’s fully vaccinated?

[harpendenfox]

So. Question. There are 160,000 hospital beds in the UK (we’ve cut about 40,000 in the last 20 years). In January about 30,000 were occupied by people with Covid, so the pressure on the NHS was huge. Now there are 2,000 hospital beds occupied by people with Covid. At what level of occupancy should we reintroduce certain restrictive measures, or do we just roll with it regardless, and accept that NHS backlogs for others treatments will simply have to rise?

 

i have a figure in my head, but would be interested in your considered opinions.

[Ric Flair]

7 minutes ago, Bert Fill said:

Ah, the ‘I’m alright Jack’ approach to health policy!

 

Are most lives really that awful at the moment? We can go to pubs, cinemas, on holiday etc if we want. It’s hardly like when we were in lockdown.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m keen for life to be ‘normal’ again, and I do get why people are so keen for restrictions to be lifted. But I just don’t get the need to rush to remove all restrictions at a time when cases are rising fast. Why not at least keep the current situation until pretty much everyone’s fully vaccinated?

There comes a point though where people will ask that question though. The " I'm alright Jack " approach works both ways though doesn't it. This way of life might be fine for many so therefore they aren't that bothered if the restrictions remain, but what about the folk whose lives are still massively impacted because of it?

 

I actually am OK in this regard but my wife isn't and nor are many friends. So what's the call there then? 

 

The argument regarding waiting until everyone is vaccinated is because the vaccinations don't prevent transmission so its still going to be spread and the ones that get seriously ill or die should have had both doses of vaccinations so that's likely why. 

[Legend_in_blue]

Slide update at 5pm today!  

[Ric Flair]

15 minutes ago, harpendenfox said:

So. Question. There are 160,000 hospital beds in the UK (we’ve cut about 40,000 in the last 20 years). In January about 30,000 were occupied by people with Covid, so the pressure on the NHS was huge. Now there are 2,000 hospital beds occupied by people with Covid. At what level of occupancy should we reintroduce certain restrictive measures, or do we just roll with it regardless, and accept that NHS backlogs for others treatments will simply have to rise?

 

i have a figure in my head, but would be interested in your considered opinions.

Let's see how effective the vaccinations that we've been told is the key to returning to as close to normal as possible. Even at 95% effective though its going to make for a large number of hospitalisations and deaths but genuinely what's the alternative. The knock on effect is harrowing.

[Sly]

2 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Slide update at 5pm today!  

[CosbehFox]

19 minutes ago, Bert Fill said:

Ah, the ‘I’m alright Jack’ approach to health policy!

 

Are most lives really that awful at the moment? We can go to pubs, cinemas, on holiday etc if we want. It’s hardly like when we were in lockdown.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m keen for life to be ‘normal’ again, and I do get why people are so keen for restrictions to be lifted. But I just don’t get the need to rush to remove all restrictions at a time when cases are rising fast. Why not at least keep the current situation until pretty much everyone’s fully vaccinated?

It’s certainly chaotic and not normal for any parents at the moment. Same with public facing jobs. 
 

Hospitality will struggle to sustain this. As they facing closure of their pubs every time there’s a case and their restricted capacities are already pushing their profit margins low or negative. Throw things such as the venues as well and the caterers and all the add one’s. A lot of them can’t sustain the middle ground of operating but with a lower income. They’d be better in a business sense to be closed. Cinemas similarly.
 

You throw in the rent delays/eviction ban for another year which is in my opinion quite a reckless move for all parties, landlord and tenant. 
 

We are on 80% first dose and 60% two doses. At some point, we are gonna have to consider how much more of that first dose really wants the vaccine. 

[Guest Bert Fill]

13 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

There comes a point though where people will ask that question though. The " I'm alright Jack " approach works both ways though doesn't it. This way of life might be fine for many so therefore they aren't that bothered if the restrictions remain, but what about the folk whose lives are still massively impacted because of it?

 

I actually am OK in this regard but my wife isn't and nor are many friends. So what's the call there then? 

 

The argument regarding waiting until everyone is vaccinated is because the vaccinations don't prevent transmission so its still going to be spread and the ones that get seriously ill or die should have had both doses of vaccinations so that's likely why. 

I know there’s no perfect solution.

It just seems a daft time to lift all restrictions, when it wouldn’t actually be that long, all things considered, till everyone’s vaccinated.

 

15 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I actually am OK in this regard but my wife isn't and nor are many friends. So what's the call there then?

Well ideally we’d have a country and society with robust and effective support for people who need it, but unfortunately we don’t. Ultimately we end up weighing mental health against long-term illness or death. The real shame (and worry) is that all decisions are made either for quick PR points or for reasons of Tory MP votes in parliament, and not on the basis of what might work or what’s actually good for people.

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Bert Fill said:

I know there’s no perfect solution.

It just seems a daft time to lift all restrictions, when it wouldn’t actually be that long, all things considered, till everyone’s vaccinated.

 

Well ideally we’d have a country and society with robust and effective support for people who need it, but unfortunately we don’t. Ultimately we end up weighing mental health against long-term illness or death. The real shame (and worry) is that all decisions are made either for quick PR points or for reasons of Tory MP votes in parliament, and not on the basis of what might work or what’s actually good for people.

Don't even get me started on this government, absolutely frightening. The opposition seem worryingly poor as well. Just a horrible era this is. 

[Guest Bert Fill]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

Don't even get me started on this government, absolutely frightening. The opposition seem worryingly poor as well. Just a horrible era this is. 

It hasn’t really been the best time to have probably the worst government we’ve ever had.

[The People's Hero]

You're also missing that not everyone will get vaccinated since as far as I can work out, its not mandatory, and there's been plenty of opportunity for the majority that would want it.

 

If you don't ease restrictions until 100% are vaxed then its simply never going to happen.

 

 

[Guest Bert Fill]

3 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

You're also missing that not everyone will get vaccinated since as far as I can work out, its not mandatory, and there's been plenty of opportunity for the majority that would want it.

 

If you don't ease restrictions until 100% are vaxed then its simply never going to happen.

 

 

No, I’m not missing that. My use of ‘everyone’ is just shorthand for finishing the vaccination programme and waiting till as many are vaccinated as can/will be. Which apparently (I’m not an epidemiologist) should be pretty much enough to control transmission.

[fox_up_north]

When they first announced June easing, which I think was around March, I was skeptical but things improved. Then they took a real nosedive. 

 

I have been public facing key worker throughout the whole thing. Somehow managed to avoid covid. From what I can tell, the things remaining are

 

- clubs and close proximity live entertainment

- mask wearing

- isolating

 

As much as I want to go back to gigs - both playing and attending - it doesn't feel just right to do that along with chucking mask wearing. Personally, I'd say keep mask wearing and isolating. I generally wear a mask for 5-6 hours a day and it's not hard. I grumble some days but fvcking hell, it's not just about me. People that don't want to wear one really have no concept of what freedom is. 

[Ric Flair]

13 minutes ago, Bert Fill said:

No, I’m not missing that. My use of ‘everyone’ is just shorthand for finishing the vaccination programme and waiting till as many are vaccinated as can/will be. Which apparently (I’m not an epidemiologist) should be pretty much enough to control transmission.

Do vaccinations prevent transmission? I keep reading conflicting reports, funnily enough the same people championing vaccinations as the only viable route to living with covid are now arguing for continues restrictions because transmission still occurs. 

[z-layrex]

8 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Do vaccinations prevent transmission? I keep reading conflicting reports, funnily enough the same people championing vaccinations as the only viable route to living with covid are now arguing for continues restrictions because transmission still occurs. 

You can still get it and transmit the virus, but it will most likely stop you getting too sick. Not everyone though, we've had a degree of double vaccinated icu admissions across the country.

[Super_horns]

1 hour ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Slide update at 5pm today!  

Do we fully believe what is said or will the goal posts be moved before July 19th ?

 

I don’t think they will want to carry on having restrictions after that date as the Government know it will prove to be very unpopular given the crowds at sporting events etc but things can change quickly.

[Babylon]

59 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Do vaccinations prevent transmission? I keep reading conflicting reports, funnily enough the same people championing vaccinations as the only viable route to living with covid are now arguing for continues restrictions because transmission still occurs. 

They were never tested for that, but it was hoped they would. And apparently there is evidence indicating that they do reduce transmission. 

[Rain King]

Getting a bit annoyed with this.

 

Oldest son woke up struggling to breathe, sounding very croupy. He has a history of pneumonia and chest infections. 

 

Before we rang the doctors we gave him a lateral flow test which came back negative. 

 

All we want is him checked over as previously when he's had pneumonia he's deteriorated very quickly.

 

They called back refusing to see him as the lateral flow tests are useless and will only see him once he's had a test at a proper site but have prescribed antibiotics anyway. Just seems ridiculous. If they're useless why are we being told to use them.

Edited 5 July 2021 by Rain King

[Sol thewall Bamba]

I see "follow the science" has gone out the window here now