Hamza

[deanolegend1989]

4 hours ago, blaaklint said:

I'm not entirely sure anybody really cares this much, but I did some digging on Mendy and Choudhury's stats through 2018/19, 2019/2020 and this season so far, using just PL minutes. 3,167 minutes (31.2 games) for Mendy, 1,499 minutes (16.7 games) for Choudhury. Numbers after hyphen are per 90.

Mendy:

34/75 (45%) tackles completed - 1.09/2.40
21 dribbled past - 0.67
41 interceptions -1.31
32 clearances -1.03
40 blocks - 1.28

60 fouled -1.92
35 fouls - 1.12
8 yellows - 0.26
0 reds - 0.00

22/35 (63%) dribbles completed - 0.71/1.12
46 unsuccessful touches - 1.47
22 times dispossessed - 0.71
17/40 (43%) aerial duels completed - 0.54/1.28

1,628/1,814 (90%) passes completed - 52.18/58.14

Choudhury:

42/70 (60%) tackles completed - 2.51/4.19
28 dribbled past - 1.68
39 interceptions - 2.34
24 clearances - 1.44
29 blocks - 1.74

9 fouled - 0.54
19 fouls - 1.14
2 yellows - 0.12
1 red - 0.06

5/11 (45%) dribbles completed - 0.30/0.66
20 unsuccessful touches - 1.20
7 times dispossessed - 0.42
18/34 (53%) aerial duels completed - 1.08/2.04

643/756 (85%) passes completed - 38.50/45.27

Interesting notes:
Choudhury only received 4 yellows in entire career (this surprised me).

Neither have ever been called for offside (this didn't).

The only goal Mendy has ever scored (for Nice in a 3-1 win over SC Bastia in 2015) was assisted by Ricardo Pereira.

Choudhury commits many more defensive actions (successful tackles, blocks, interceptions, clearances) than Mendy per 90 (8.04 vs. 4.71) - he also does far less with the ball than Mendy (13.68 fewer passes and 0.41 fewer dribbles per 90). As you would expect, since Mendy sees more of the ball, he also gets dispossessed more often (0.71 vs. 0.42) and takes more bad touches (1.47 vs. 1.20).

Great research and shows how Hamza has had more tackles , better % and nearly as many interceptions in half the amount of game time!!

Proves everything I’ve said pretty much and this is comparing to Hamza, who I think has a lot to improve on but has more potential than Mendy.

Comparing to Wilfs stats would show him up even more.

 

3 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Deano, just to be clear, I’m not someone who would bench Ndidi for Mendy. I think Ndidi is a better player. I also think Riccy is a better player then Justin and Soy gets back into the team over Fofana/Evans. That doesn’t mean I don’t rate those players either. In case of Justin especially who simply takes a place on the bench because Riccy is far superior. 

 

The point I was making is as someone who has seen every game of ours this season. How can you possibly have such poor regard for Mendy’s performances in the majority of games. To even suggest he has been “carried” is ridiculous. Yeah, he is not going to win DM of the year but he has certainly contributed. His movement, passes etc. Have allowed time to the creators around him. Best example: we do not score the equaliser at the Etihad without Mendy - you cannot argue with that. 
 

We’ve seen some shit at the KP/Filbert Street over the years. Some of your comments suggest Mendy rubs shoulders with guys like Junior Lewis - I cant understand how. 
 

As said above , it’s not a case of me hating him, I just don’t think he’s good enough for us if we want to get into the top 6.

 

Hes steady at times and like you said, that Man City moment was a good moment from him and I acknowledged that after that game and gave him credit, Leeds away and Man City  away I praised him, he does ok in games vs passing teams but more direct teams who have got the type of strong midfielders who get up and down the pitch, he gets run over and yes, does get carried at times(Burnley 2nd half, West Ham, Villa, Wolves 2nd half, Liverpool) all those games he was an absolute passenger and extremely poor.

So we can’t take one side of the argument and then not take the criticism of his poor games.

 

He is better at holding his position than Hamza, true.  However Hamza, as now backing me up by statistics from @blaaklint, makes on average over double the amount of interceptions, wins more in the air and most crucially for me, over 2 and a half more tackles per 90!
That’s a massive difference and Hamza, whilst I’ve said numerous times, has a lot of room for improvement but his weaknesses are less important than Mendys and why I prefer Hamza as he’s better overall and younger and more potential.

[HighPeakFox]

Shall we call it a draw now?

[deanolegend1989]

14 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Shall we call it a draw now?

It’s not a game mate. I just like debating when there’s a debate and everyone’s had their say and whether I agree or disagree it’s good to hear all angels and especially when there’s weight behind the opinions.

Its nothing personal as fans and nothing personal towards any of the individual players in question. It’s about having an opinion and regardless of the opinion, We all(I hope) want the best for Leicester City.

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, deanolegend1989 said:

It’s not a game mate. I just like debating when there’s a debate and everyone’s had their say and whether I agree or disagree it’s good to hear all angels and especially when there’s weight behind the opinions.

Its nothing personal as fans and nothing personal towards any of the individual players in question. It’s about having an opinion and regardless of the opinion, We all(I hope) want the best for Leicester City.

I'm also fond of listening to all angels.

[Foxxed]

39 minutes ago, deanolegend1989 said:

It’s not a game mate. I just like debating when there’s a debate and everyone’s had their say and whether I agree or disagree it’s good to hear all angels and especially when there’s weight behind the opinions.

Its nothing personal as fans and nothing personal towards any of the individual players in question. It’s about having an opinion and regardless of the opinion, We all(I hope) want the best for Leicester City.

Yeah. Games are fun...

[blaaklint]

5 hours ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Great research and shows how Hamza has had more tackles , better % and nearly as many interceptions in half the amount of game time!!

Proves everything I’ve said pretty much and this is comparing to Hamza, who I think has a lot to improve on but has more potential than Mendy.

Comparing to Wilfs stats would show him up even more.

 

As said above , it’s not a case of me hating him, I just don’t think he’s good enough for us if we want to get into the top 6.

 

Hes steady at times and like you said, that Man City moment was a good moment from him and I acknowledged that after that game and gave him credit, Leeds away and Man City  away I praised him, he does ok in games vs passing teams but more direct teams who have got the type of strong midfielders who get up and down the pitch, he gets run over and yes, does get carried at times(Burnley 2nd half, West Ham, Villa, Wolves 2nd half, Liverpool) all those games he was an absolute passenger and extremely poor.

So we can’t take one side of the argument and then not take the criticism of his poor games.

 

He is better at holding his position than Hamza, true.  However Hamza, as now backing me up by statistics from @blaaklint, makes on average over double the amount of interceptions, wins more in the air and most crucially for me, over 2 and a half more tackles per 90!
That’s a massive difference and Hamza, whilst I’ve said numerous times, has a lot of room for improvement but his weaknesses are less important than Mendys and why I prefer Hamza as he’s better overall and younger and more potential.

I didn't go into it earlier but I don't think the stats are quite so clear cut in favour of one or the other.

 

It's worth recognising that historic stats reflect the tactics of the past to some degree, which is almost impossible to capture in the stats. Mendy played the majority of the minutes looked at under Puel - who (last season, at least) placed far less of an emphasis on pressing than Rodgers. Accordingly, Mendy made 7.1 defensive actions per 90 last season. Also of note is that a greater proportion of Choudhury's performances have been off the bench: frequent substitutes tend to have impressively high metrics because they come up against tired oppositions.

 

In my mind, it really depends on how you're trying to play. Choudhury is obviously far more aggressive; his ability to get around the pitch and make tackles suits open games where we expect to press harder. Conversely, Mendy's game is more suitable when we expect to have the majority of possession or we're playing without pressing - he's far less likely to be dribbled past or overcommit.

 

I wish I could delve deeper into the stats but sadly I'm limited as to the data I can work with, in terms of what is measured. Maybe if I can find the time over Christmas, I'll see about trying to produce my own for Leicester games.

Edited 30 November 2020 by blaaklint

[Babylon]

12 hours ago, deanolegend1989 said:

It’s not a game mate. I just like debating when there’s a debate and everyone’s had their say and whether I agree or disagree it’s good to hear all angels and especially when there’s weight behind the opinions.

Its nothing personal as fans and nothing personal towards any of the individual players in question. It’s about having an opinion and regardless of the opinion, We all(I hope) want the best for Leicester City.

Do you know who disagrees with you (along with most of the forum), Bendan Rodgers.

 

Hamza is a blunt instrument, good at charging around and bashing into things. He's got absolutely no nuance to his game. 

 

Those games you list Mendy as being poor, how many players on the pitch actually played well in those games or halves of football? You're focusing on one player and not seeing that the whole team was gubbins. 

[Danny Clender]

Regarding the "debate"  above concerning Hamza vs Mendy.

I am a fan of stats, they're part of the modern game and they get ever more reliable and sophisticated. 

People can debate and dissect stats as much as they like, but this Hamza vs Mendy talk does not warrant any seriousness at the moment due to our league position. 

 

Put us in 12th position and under performing and I'll happily listen to all potential solutions regarding who's better to line up in the starting 11. 

As always, fans can have just a feel for the game regardless of stats and analysis and right now, in that position, Mendy just feels more comfortable and reliable to start over Choudhury. 

 

Edited 30 November 2020 by Danny Clender

[Vardinio'sCat]

Youri prefers Papy.

[Lambert09]

I thought mendy was poor again today. I think its time to give Hamza another chance in the DM role.  

 

I really think he has the makings of a great player if he can improve his tactical approach.  We were craving a bit more of a bite in there today and I think he would have stood up to the physical battle a lot more today. Mendy was bullied all game. 

 

Mendy has had a good season, but today he was a wasted shirt 

Edited 30 November 2020 by Lambert09

[Kierzz]

8 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

I thought mendy was poor again today. I think its time to give Hamza another chance in the DM role.  

 

I really think he has the makings of a great player if he can improve his tactical approach.  We were craving a bit more of a bite in there today and I think he would have stood up to the physical battle a lot more today. Mendy was bullied all game. 

 

Mendy has had a good season, but today he was a wasted shirt 

Hamza is poor on the ball and he misplaces 1 in 3 passes which is shocking for a CM. He also needs to improve his positioning to receive a pass.

 

Defensively he's good at pressing and chasing down the ball but his positioning and tracking of runners is poor. 

 

I think he's a lower premier league midfielder at the best and he's no longer young.

 

We need Ndidi back fit.

[Lambert09]

16 minutes ago, Kierzz said:

Hamza is poor on the ball and he misplaces 1 in 3 passes which is shocking for a CM. He also needs to improve his positioning to receive a pass.

 

Defensively he's good at pressing and chasing down the ball but his positioning and tracking of runners is poor. 

 

I think he's a lower premier league midfielder at the best and he's no longer young.

 

We need Ndidi back fit.

Couldn’t agree more. But while he’s out, I think I’d like to see him given another chance 

[thereeldeel]

40 minutes ago, Kierzz said:

Hamza is poor on the ball and he misplaces 1 in 3 passes which is shocking for a CM. He also needs to improve his positioning to receive a pass.

 

Defensively he's good at pressing and chasing down the ball but his positioning and tracking of runners is poor. 

 

I think he's a lower premier league midfielder at the best and he's no longer young.

 

We need Ndidi back fit.

 

where did u pluck your stats from? 1 in 3? Positioning poor to track runners? you based this off one goal we conceded. 😂😂😂

[Unabomber]

Deffo needed him tonight!

[Manwell Pablo]

Ndidi is back soon by the sounds of it and he’s better than the both of them put together, so hopefully won’t be an issue for much longer.

[Webbo]

What's happened to Amartey?

[Kierzz]

57 minutes ago, thereeldeel said:

 

where did u pluck your stats from? 1 in 3? Positioning poor to track runners? you based this off one goal we conceded. 😂😂😂

Didn't even mention what he did against man utd past season  but I suppose he was unlucky there too....

 

He wont even make the bench when Ndidi is fit

 

EDIT: here's a screenshot of his pass accuracy in the Premier League this season which is 65% - ie 1 in 3 misplaced

 

 

 

Edited 30 November 2020 by Kierzz
..

[Lambert09]

46 minutes ago, Kierzz said:

Didn't even mention what he did against man utd past season  but I suppose he was unlucky there too....

 

He wont even make the bench when Ndidi is fit

 

EDIT: here's a screenshot of his pass accuracy in the Premier League this season which is 65% - ie 1 in 3 misplaced

 

 

 

You can’t be serious, you’re using 13 minutes of game time to judge him 😂

[Kierzz]

23 minutes ago, Lambert09 said:

You can’t be serious, you’re using 13 minutes of game time to judge him 😂

Fair point.

 

But I can't see it improving much with game time against the better premier league opponents unless he starts passing sideways and backwards again.

[thereeldeel]

On 30/11/2020 at 22:52, Kierzz said:

Didn't even mention what he did against man utd past season  but I suppose he was unlucky there too....

 

He wont even make the bench when Ndidi is fit

 

EDIT: here's a screenshot of his pass accuracy in the Premier League this season which is 65% - ie 1 in 3 misplaced

 

 

 

It’s fair game to have an opinion but you can’t bring up stats if you don’t know how to interpret them. I think earlier posts have provided fair statistics that show strengths and weaknesses. 

[happy85]

Hamza a championship player at best 

 

He can’t even anticipate a pass to be played to him 

[Fox1norfolk]

12 minutes ago, happy85 said:

Hamza a championship player at best 

 

He can’t even anticipate a pass to be played to him 

The a very generous opinion, Division 2 more suitable,. His passing accuracy is dreadful, What does he add to the team.?

[Ian Nacho]

Hamza was poor tonight but suggest he’s a Championship player is ridiculous. When he’s been asked to play in a role which requires him to be creative he won’t do much. In saying that, he hasn’t been good enough on the whole this season so far. 

[baldeagle]

Should have been hooked instead of Dennis was jogging around looking  lost half all night  and didn’t close down their player on the build up to their goal 

Edited 3 December 2020 by baldeagle

[Stuntman_Mike]

40 minutes ago, Ian Nacho said:

Hamza was poor tonight but suggest he’s a Championship player is ridiculous. When he’s been asked to play in a role which requires him to be creative he won’t do much. In saying that, he hasn’t been good enough on the whole this season so far. 

He wouldn't stand out in a Championship team.

 

There's still time on his side but lets be fair, he's an extremely limited footballer right now.