Time to start spending

[TheLittleBigMan]

5 hours ago, jeffschlupp said:

This is not possible.

 

The club operates within its means. King Power do not invest significantly in the club, that's the model. We have a £91m training ground which is financed by a loan which will be repaid to KP.

 

We don't 'routinely' sell players to these big clubs. It's one a season. Kante had a release clause, so the club have only voluntarily sold Drinkwater, Mahrez and Maguire. Drinkwater and Maguire in particular were great value deals for the club and haven't exactly improved those clubs massively either.

 

Contract extensions is hilarious. Does everyone forget the amount of money the club spent tying all of its key players down in the second half of 2018? Vardy, Schmeichel, Chilwell, Ndidi, Maguire, Amartey all got new contracts, along with the signings of Soyuncu, Ricardo, Maddison and Evans. We gave Barnes one last summer. Choudhury had one recently. Maddison is about to sign another, and Soyuncu will surely follow.

 

The club will sell Chilwell for good money if it is available because it gives them an opportunity to spend big in multiple areas. Maguire going bought us Perez and Tielemans who have contributed well this season to our success, and we haven't lost much defensively either.

 

We are a smaller club, until we manage to break the mould year after year, which is a very difficult but not impossible job. Only then will we see commercial revenue rise on a par with clubs like Spurs and even Everton, so we can spend more. It's nonsense to think we can get away with spending big money without selling for now.

How the progress we've made as a club since king power came in can inspire any sense of panic or doubt in how we go about our business baffles me. This has been the most successful period in the clubs history whilst slinging two fingers up to the premier league elite. What we have achieved has inspired a much more competitive mentality to the rest of the league to boot.

 

We are sh*t hot.

[Bluearmyfox28]

If we are serious about competing for Europe for the foreseeable future, for me now is the time to invest in the squad. Imo we are in need of 5 players. A centre back, a defensive midfielder, a left winger, right winger & a striker. The reason I’ve put a left & right winger is because for me I would move Perez into the No.10 role, bringing extra competition for Maddison.

 

Here’s a list that I think we should be looking at to improve our side drastically.

 

Centre back:

Option 1: Merih Demiral - £30m

option 2: Wesley Fofanna

 

Defensive Midfielder:

Option 1: Ibrahima Diallo - £20m

Option 2: William Carvalho 

 

Left winger:

Option 1: Saint-Maximin - £30m

Option 2: Leon Bailey

 

Right winger:

Option 1: Said Benrahma - £25m

Option 2: Viktor Tsygankov

 

Striker:

Option 1: Luka Jovic - Loan view to permanent.

Option 2: Odsonne Edouard

 

Total spend £105m

 

Sell:

Gray - £10m

Amartey - £3.5m

Silva - £3.5m

James - Free

Mendy - Free 

Slimani - £5m

Diabate £2.5m

Total £24.5m

 

This would leave us with a total net spend of £80.5m. Admittedly it appears a lot on paper, but remember the club spent close to nothing last year on transfer fee’s due to the Maguire sale. So if you include last years budget as well as this years budget it averages a net spend of £40.25m each year, across the last two seasons.

 

You could also include the sale of Kelechi if we needed to raise extra funds, however personally I would keep Kelechi.

Edited 27 July 2020 by Bluearmyfox28

[Nicolo Barella]

3 hours ago, Rigga said:

I would expect 8/9’to leave...

Mendy, Hamza, Gray, James , Albrighton And Morgan are not good enough..

I doubt Perez also.
then we have the dregs of Slimani, Silva Diabate still on our books.

europa league will take an awful lot out of a small squad.. Potentially 50/60 games with a decent run.

we need 7/8 in and have to be good enough for the first team not just to make up the squad..

8/9 senior players will not leave, I can guarantee

[Pliskin]

9 hours ago, Ian Nacho said:

I just have a strange feeling this will be an underwhelming window. 

It will be fore everyone. Hence why Chelsea started early. This window will be like operating in January. And only the biggest clubs with huge turnovers will be spending big. COVID will have an impact on proceedings until fans are allowed to go back. 

[adam95581]

8 hours ago, jeffschlupp said:

Here's what I expect to happen:

CB - younger guy, at least under the age of 27, tall, decent on the ball, maybe a bit rough around the edges. Club will spend no more than £20m here. Will be helped by the promise to start the season alongside Söyüncü in the absence of Evans through suspension.

 

AM - Cover for Maddison. Rodgers wants more creativity, so expect someone with decent key chance/assist numbers. Not sure on age but don't expect it to be a big fee, could look for a free (Lusamba at Nice?) or a player from a smaller league like Holland. Needs to be capable of playing as an attacking no.8 more than a traditional no.10. Perhaps a bit quicker than our current options.

 

RW - Someone to take the responsibility for take-ons/dribbles away from Ricardo. Quick, ideally has power in terms of upper body strength too. Decent finisher. I'm talking the Zaha mould. If they're reasonably secure financially, we could see £30-40m spent here if the right player is available.

 

CF - Something different to Vardy and Iheanacho. Mobile with decent link-up play, perhaps a more Kramaric type player. Strikers are a premium but I'd be surprised to see the club spend more than £30m here.

 

With those four there you're looking at probably £100m of signings. Can the club afford that? I would think no.

 

So you then sell Chilwell for £60-70m, and perhaps get lucky and take in £10-15m for one or several of Gray, Amartey, James, Slimani, Silva, Ghezzal or Diabate (the rest go on loan). You're then at £15-30m net spend, which is a typical summer for us.

 

The difference then will be if EL qualification can afford for us to spend another £20-30m to replace Chilwell with an external buy. Nobody really knows whether COVID has hit the club's plans that badly - matchday profits for five home games are not that significant, and the TV rebates aren't due until next season. I'd still expect the club to dip into the market to take the pressure off Thomas if he starts the season shakily.

 

That would be a good summer for us. In a fully fit team with 9 subs, you've got a bench of Ward, Justin, CB, Mendy, Praet, AM, Pérez, CF, Iheanacho. And that's a matchday squad that leaves out solid pros like Morgan, Albrighton, Fuchs, and then good young players like Choudhury and Thomas.

Agree with the sentiment but if Chilwell is funding our transfer activities then LB needs to be one of the incoming players. Thomas looks like decent cover, but he’s not a starter yet. 

[coolhandfox]

Anyone who think we are going to spend more the 20-30million net is going to be disappointed 

[Lesta2014]

Are that team we sold Musa too desperate to overspend again? Slimani silva ghezzal diabate take your pick lads 

[TMELcfc]

Although it’s needed, it won’t happen. 
 

COVID situation has no doubt had a big impact on KP being a duty free company. Yes they’re rich, but you don’t get rich by being blasé with your money. 

Players will need to be sold for us to spend big. Getting rid of big wage players who spend most their life going out on loan will be biggest priority I’d imagine 

[dooflip]

9 hours ago, Rigga said:

I would expect 8/9’to leave...

Mendy, Hamza, Gray, James , Albrighton And Morgan are not good enough..

I doubt Perez also.
then we have the dregs of Slimani, Silva Diabate still on our books.

europa league will take an awful lot out of a small squad.. Potentially 50/60 games with a decent run.

we need 7/8 in and have to be good enough for the first team not just to make up the squad..

I’d love us to clear that many but just can’t see it.

 

and hamza can’t go anywhere. We need 4 players developed by the club for European completion.

[Rigga]

I don’t dislike Hamza... And fair enough that we will keep him.. He keeps us on the edge at times though..

[Farrington fox]

If we genuinely have ambition to finish top 4 a lot of money has to be spent, and few players cleared out.

[Fox85]

9 hours ago, Bluearmyfox28 said:

If we are serious about competing for Europe for the foreseeable future, for me now is the time to invest in the squad. Imo we are in need of 5 players. A centre back, a defensive midfielder, a left winger, right winger & a striker. The reason I’ve put a left & right winger is because for me I would move Perez into the No.10 role, bringing extra competition for Maddison.

 

Here’s a list that I think we should be looking at to improve our side drastically.

 

Centre back:

Option 1: Merih Demiral - £30m

option 2: Wesley Fofanna

 

Defensive Midfielder:

Option 1: Ibrahima Diallo - £20m

Option 2: William Carvalho 

 

Left winger:

Option 1: Saint-Maximin - £30m

Option 2: Leon Bailey

 

Right winger:

Option 1: Said Benrahma - £25m

Option 2: Viktor Tsygankov

 

Striker:

Option 1: Luka Jovic - Loan view to permanent.

Option 2: Odsonne Edouard

 

Total spend £105m

 

Sell:

Gray - £10m

Amartey - £3.5m

Silva - £3.5m

James - Free

Mendy - Free 

Slimani - £5m

Diabate £2.5m

Total £24.5m

 

This would leave us with a total net spend of £80.5m. Admittedly it appears a lot on paper, but remember the club spent close to nothing last year on transfer fee’s due to the Maguire sale. So if you include last years budget as well as this years budget it averages a net spend of £40.25m each year, across the last two seasons.

 

You could also include the sale of Kelechi if we needed to raise extra funds, however personally I would keep Kelechi.

I think we should sign all of those on there and stop messing about.

 

Get 50% of those on a loan option to buy and spend money and getting the rest permanently 

[Guest]

On 26/07/2020 at 21:26, jeffschlupp said:

This is not possible.

 

The club operates within its means. King Power do not invest significantly in the club, that's the model. We have a £91m training ground which is financed by a loan which will be repaid to KP.

 

We don't 'routinely' sell players to these big clubs. It's one a season. Kante had a release clause, so the club have only voluntarily sold Drinkwater, Mahrez and Maguire. Drinkwater and Maguire in particular were great value deals for the club and haven't exactly improved those clubs massively either.

 

Contract extensions is hilarious. Does everyone forget the amount of money the club spent tying all of its key players down in the second half of 2018? Vardy, Schmeichel, Chilwell, Ndidi, Maguire, Amartey all got new contracts, along with the signings of Soyuncu, Ricardo, Maddison and Evans. We gave Barnes one last summer. Choudhury had one recently. Maddison is about to sign another, and Soyuncu will surely follow.

 

The club will sell Chilwell for good money if it is available because it gives them an opportunity to spend big in multiple areas. Maguire going bought us Perez and Tielemans who have contributed well this season to our success, and we haven't lost much defensively either.

 

We are a smaller club, until we manage to break the mould year after year, which is a very difficult but not impossible job. Only then will we see commercial revenue rise on a par with clubs like Spurs and even Everton, so we can spend more. It's nonsense to think we can get away with spending big money without selling for now.

Some salient points. But what is the business model you are referring to? No club in the top two divisions operates within its means. Football as a business or industry isn’t one that anyone goes into to make money. A successful club can be part of a billionaires’ ego trip or in the case of the premier league something that can be built into a world brand, with revenues then coming from subsidiary revenue (ie tours, international merch etc) which then allows you to balance the books in non playing ways -  or at least get access to huge finance to offset debt a la Man Utd. 
 

You can never break even on the playing side of things, so players, training grounds are all expenses that have to be made and written off, to generate results, trophies and develop the brand. You just need to look at the net spend accounts of every club in the top two divisions to see that. 
 

This is what I understood the Owners had always talked about. Regular CL appearances to take us to the next level. This means clever investments made on quality to compliment the gems we find in the lower leagues and in the academy, rather than superstars. Much like the recent PL winners, rather than splurging on big names for the sake of it we need to be able to spend £60-70m on a VVD or Alisson (rather than a 25m player who we don’t really notice) if we are going to become the regular CL club that the owners have talked about. 

 

 

[AS78UK]

13 minutes ago, Les Philpot said:

Some salient points. But what is the business model you are referring to? No club in the top two divisions operates within its means. Football as a business or industry isn’t one that anyone goes into to make money. A successful club can be part of a billionaires’ ego trip or in the case of the premier league something that can be built into a world brand, with revenues then coming from subsidiary revenue (ie tours, international merch etc) which then allows you to balance the books in non playing ways -  or at least get access to huge finance to offset debt a la Man Utd. 
 

You can never break even on the playing side of things, so players, training grounds are all expenses that have to be made and written off, to generate results, trophies and develop the brand. You just need to look at the net spend accounts of every club in the top two divisions to see that. 
 

This is what I understood the Owners had always talked about. Regular CL appearances to take us to the next level. This means clever investments made on quality to compliment the gems we find in the lower leagues and in the academy, rather than superstars. Much like the recent PL winners, rather than splurging on big names for the sake of it we need to be able to spend £60-70m on a VVD or Alisson (rather than a 25m player who we don’t really notice) if we are going to become the regular CL club that the owners have talked about. 

 

 

Not sure this is accurate, but ain't the Glazer hated because Man Utd do? Ashley and Newcastle? Anyway not pulled open the accounts so shooting from the hip here, so feel free to shoot me down. 

[volpeazzurro]

On 27/07/2020 at 04:09, Bluearmyfox28 said:

If we are serious about competing for Europe for the foreseeable future, for me now is the time to invest in the squad. Imo we are in need of 5 players. A centre back, a defensive midfielder, a left winger, right winger & a striker. The reason I’ve put a left & right winger is because for me I would move Perez into the No.10 role, bringing extra competition for Maddison.

 

Here’s a list that I think we should be looking at to improve our side drastically.

 

Centre back:

Option 1: Merih Demiral - £30m

option 2: Wesley Fofanna

 

Defensive Midfielder:

Option 1: Ibrahima Diallo - £20m

Option 2: William Carvalho 

 

Left winger:

Option 1: Saint-Maximin - £30m

Option 2: Leon Bailey

 

Right winger:

Option 1: Said Benrahma - £25m

Option 2: Viktor Tsygankov

 

Striker:

Option 1: Luka Jovic - Loan view to permanent.

Option 2: Odsonne Edouard

 

Total spend £105m

 

Sell:

Gray - £10m

Amartey - £3.5m

Silva - £3.5m

James - Free

Mendy - Free 

Slimani - £5m

Diabate £2.5m

Total £24.5m

 

This would leave us with a total net spend of £80.5m. Admittedly it appears a lot on paper, but remember the club spent close to nothing last year on transfer fee’s due to the Maguire sale. So if you include last years budget as well as this years budget it averages a net spend of £40.25m each year, across the last two seasons.

 

You could also include the sale of Kelechi if we needed to raise extra funds, however personally I would keep Kelechi.

I'm afraid that sort of financial investment is a pipe dream. In the last year of their contracts, why would anyone want to pay a fee for Silva and Slimani and pay their huge wages. No doubt they'd also want longer contracts which nobody at their age is going to offer. We'll loan them at best.

 

As for signing Demiral, that's also deluded, never going to happen. Research him a bit more closely and the reasons are obvious. 

[NewquayFox]

Unless we cash in on one or two of our best assets like we have done over the last few years, Kante, Drinkwater, Mahrez & Maguire I can’t see Rodgers being allowed to spend over  £40 million on players even if we get rid of the dead wood which probably amounts to £15million... 

[reynard]

On 27/07/2020 at 00:48, Fightforever said:

Our squad is spread out far to thin if we dont get at least 5 players this window we are in trouble. Even without europe squad depth was an issue imagine with europe. 

This is the case. The failure to make the top 4 is going to have a massive impact on who we can sign not just this summer but for some time to come.

 

We need to clear out the do-called dead wood and recruit better than we ever have just to stand still.

 

It has been quite clear over the last few weeks and months that we lack leaders and experienced players who know how to win when the going gets hard. personally to cope with Europa league we're going to need 7 or 8 new players. Not all big names but a mixture of young talent and experienced pros whove been there before and done it.

[BlueSi13]

With our current trajectory I think Top will need to get his credit card out just to challenge the top 10, let alone top 4.

 

Also, is playing in the Europa League even an attraction for today's top players?  I almost have a feeling it's the opposite.

Edited 28 July 2020 by BlueSi13

[Blue ROI]

17 minutes ago, reynard said:

This is the case. The failure to make the top 4 is going to have a massive impact on who we can sign not just this summer but for some time to come.

 

We need to clear out the do-called dead wood and recruit better than we ever have just to stand still.

 

It has been quite clear over the last few weeks and months that we lack leaders and experienced players who know how to win when the going gets hard. personally to cope with Europa league we're going to need 7 or 8 new players. Not all big names but a mixture of young talent and experienced pros whove been there before and done it.

After about 6 years Liverpool go into the next season without Mingolet,Moreno,or Lovren....

[jeffschlupp]

14 hours ago, Les Philpot said:

Some salient points. But what is the business model you are referring to? No club in the top two divisions operates within its means. Football as a business or industry isn’t one that anyone goes into to make money. A successful club can be part of a billionaires’ ego trip or in the case of the premier league something that can be built into a world brand, with revenues then coming from subsidiary revenue (ie tours, international merch etc) which then allows you to balance the books in non playing ways -  or at least get access to huge finance to offset debt a la Man Utd. 
 

You can never break even on the playing side of things, so players, training grounds are all expenses that have to be made and written off, to generate results, trophies and develop the brand. You just need to look at the net spend accounts of every club in the top two divisions to see that. 
 

This is what I understood the Owners had always talked about. Regular CL appearances to take us to the next level. This means clever investments made on quality to compliment the gems we find in the lower leagues and in the academy, rather than superstars. Much like the recent PL winners, rather than splurging on big names for the sake of it we need to be able to spend £60-70m on a VVD or Alisson (rather than a 25m player who we don’t really notice) if we are going to become the regular CL club that the owners have talked about. 

 

 

The club's annual financial reports in the last couple of years have referred to the club standing on its own two feet and operating sustainably. The club generally does operate within its means, it has made profits year on year under King Power until last season when it spent big on contracts including the manager.

 

The recent PL winners spent £150m on van Dijk and Alisson because they sold arguably their best player for £140m. Every club sells. Chelsea had to let Hazard go. Manchester United would have sold Pogba by now if he was any good for more than 10 games in a row. Barcelona lost Neymar.

 

But also, none of those clubs are on our level, and we will never realistically get to their level. Look at teams like Dortmund, Monaco of the past, Sevilla. They are the clubs we are aspiring to be like. And all of them sell, and none of them spent big money on individual players.

 

The club's commercial revenue was £28m in 2018-19, IIRC. That is nowhere near the 'big 6'. And due to FFP, King Power can't invest themselves in the playing squad all that much. So we are stuck in the position we are in.

[Bazly]

On 26/07/2020 at 21:26, jeffschlupp said:

 

Contract extensions is hilarious. Does everyone forget the amount of money the club spent tying all of its key players down in the second half of 2018? Vardy, Schmeichel, Chilwell, Ndidi, Maguire, Amartey all got new contracts, along with the signings of Soyuncu, Ricardo, Maddison and Evans. We gave Barnes one last summer. Choudhury had one recently. Maddison is about to sign another, and Soyuncu will surely follow.

You forgot key upgrades and majorly long extensions for Matty James and some guy called Brendan Rodgers. Then what are these extensions worth seeing Maguire and Mahrez had long term deals which counted for not a lot and for others it seems a positive disincentive. Drinkwater is the shining example of that at Chelsea where £5mn a year is plenty to persuade him to piss away the remainder of his career. Only Vardy seem to be honoring his cotract extension whilst still delivering in spite of pretty poor service received.

[jeffschlupp]

46 minutes ago, Bazly said:

You forgot key upgrades and majorly long extensions for Matty James and some guy called Brendan Rodgers. Then what are these extensions worth seeing Maguire and Mahrez had long term deals which counted for not a lot and for others it seems a positive disincentive. Drinkwater is the shining example of that at Chelsea where £5mn a year is plenty to persuade him to piss away the remainder of his career. Only Vardy seem to be honoring his cotract extension whilst still delivering in spite of pretty poor service received.

James was 2017, I didn't forget it.

 

If you can't see that Mahrez and Maguire signing new deals increased their market value and the club's negotiating position then you are a bit dim.

[murphy]

When we identify a position, let's just try to get it right first time. 

 

Since Mahrez left we have bought in Daibate and then Perez for RW.  Third time lucky.

[cruzFOX]

Wow I came on here feeling of so hopeful but reading everyones vastly differing opinions I'm exhausted and feel no better or wiser for it. All we have is that are owners are incredibly smart business owners. They do read scenarios pretty well and I'm sure they had two earlier in the year.  A hopeful scenario 1 where we qualify for champions league and a backup plan if we don't. As to what that is we won't know anytime soon unless Brendan starts drip feeding us his cryptic messages again. I find it hard to believe Rogers didn't get some agreement on cash to spend on players in his 2nd season. Let's wait and see what happens but yes I too really want some quality additions to give our squad a much needed boost! They have all punched above their weight and unfortunately fizzled out towards the end. I hope they all feel the bitterness of disappointment like the fans do as that will be fuel to drive them on next season when times get tough again which they undoubtedly will. COYF! ps... all I want for Xmas is delafeu from Watford for a discount price 

[Heymister2015]

Sell chilwell! Thomas has Trent Alexander capabilities with picking team mates out with crosses! Give the lad a good and use the chilwell money towards that cb and midfield!