Ayoze Perez

[VLC86]

1 minute ago, Costock_Fox said:

Threads hot, if I scroll through 4 pages and don’t see any news I hope you all rot.

Soooo, we have reached the stage in the summer when we have everything crossed an opposition player turns out to be a nonce so our £30m player will sign for them.

[VLC86]

1 minute ago, norwichfox said:

This is the exact reason I haven't posted in this thread...

I want everyone else’s hopes to get dashed as well so Im spamming the fker.

[murphy]

33 minutes ago, FoxesWalk said:

The money was paid years ago. It’s gone. What is the point in worrying about it now? It has no relevance to the current window unless he came with a returns policy that is still valid after 2-3 years. 

That is a very naive view.  Of course it matters now.

 

AP is a current asset that we paid £30m for and who's true value is about a third of that imo.  The whole transfer market depends upon fees paid and resale value. This mistake puts us at a financial disadvantage today because we have a player that doesn't perform and we can't get our money back for him.  Our model in recent years has been to invest, sell high and invest again.  We've built our success around that.

 

33 minutes ago, FoxesWalk said:

He is perfectly good as a squad player for a top half PL side, he would start for most of the league. Too expensive when we got him? Sure, in hindsight, and it felt a lot at the time to me. But he is nowhere near some of our other disaster buys of the past 5 years or so. 
 

I think everyone agrees he shouldn’t be our first choice RW, and if we get one in he will be playing a more appropriate role in our squad. Not much to worry about really, unless we fail to bring in a RW.... 

This will sound harsh, but I truly believe he is the worst of the lot.  The reasons being that he is our most expensive flop but mainly because we continue to play him and we continue to suffer for it.  He is the one player from our starters that doesn't contribute.   We have been in a position twice when only a marginal improvement would have given us Champion's League and the riches therein.  When I look at where that improvement could come from and who is repeatedly falling short, I look at Ayoze Perez. 

 

Harsh to pin that on AP?  Maybe, but I don't care, that's how I feel although I acknowledge that it is our recruitment that is at fault more than the player.

 

 

Edited 20 July 2021 by murphy

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

1 minute ago, norwichfox said:

This is the exact reason I haven't posted in this thread...

How has this even got its own thread. We can't base transfer rumours on fans wanting to sell a player.

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, murphy said:

That is a very naive view.  Of course it matters now.

 

AP is a current asset that we paid £30m for and who's true value is about a third of that imo.  The whole transfer market depends upon fees paid and resale value. This mistake puts us at a financial disadvantage today because we have a player that doesn't perform and we can't get our money back for him.  Our model in recent years has been to invest, sell high and invest again.  We've built our success around that.

 

This will sound harsh, but I truly believe he is the worst of the lot.  The reasons being that he is our most expensive flop but mainly because we continue to play him and we continue to suffer for it.  He is the one player from our starters that doesn't contribute.  When we have been in a position twice when only a marginal improvement would have given us Champion's League and the riches therein.  When I look at where that improvement could come from, who is repeatedly falling short, I look at Ayoze Perez. 

 

Harsh to pin that on AP?  Maybe, but I don't care, that's how I feel although I acknowledge that it is our recruitment that is at fault more than the player.

It’s also very contemporary, which is of course fair enough, but Slimani and Silva are a worthy shout

[Jazzy_Jeff]

I’ve always defended Ayo (as I try to with all our players) however I think now may well be the time to part ways if someone coughs up enough. 
 

Everton seem the natural fit and if they’re signing the likes of Gray and Townsend he must be a consideration of theirs.

 

I’d happily take £15m or so as long as a right winger comes in who can also play centrally if needed 

[murphy]

21 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

It’s also very contemporary, which is of course fair enough, but Slimani and Silva are a worthy shout

Yes, money down the drain, but the difference is that we weren't a gnat's cock away from CL when we signed them.   That's my frustration, but again, that context is not the player's fault, but it is the reason I put AP firmly at the top of the list.  The true cost of getting that one wrong is much greater than £30m imo.

 

 

 

Edited 20 July 2021 by murphy

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, murphy said:

We often hear that his fee was not his fault which is true but to say it is irrelevant is ridiculous.

 

What we pay for a player directly affects what we are able to pay for others.  If we get it wrong as in the case of AP we are lumbered with a player that we cannot sell on or replace and who is several levels below the rest of his team mates.

 

Incidentally, I'm selling my car.  It has a Fred Flintstone style hole in the floor and it runs like it's farting the national anthem.  Would you like to buy it for ten grand?  It's not worth ten grand of course but that's irrelevant.

 

 

The argument is presumably that the price we paid for him a couple of years ago is irrelevant when discussing whether he's good enough for us (which I broadly agree with because his performances last season were shit but they'd have been just as shit if we'd bought him for £15m, £5, £50m or nothing), not that "it doesn't matter what we pay for players" because clearly it does.

[AKCJ]

42 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Nobody is saying, chin Perez off and not replace him. We are crying out for additions to right wing and ACM but the notion we cannot grumble about his output given we bought him to bring a lot of goals and assists is ridiculous. Maybe we've got our wires crossed here.

My initial post was saying that we shouldn't get rid while we didn't have strong options for his positions and you argued with it.

[manders86]

Apologies if I've missed this. Were Perez and Madders granted extra time away? Just seemed strange that they both were fit and available but stayed out of the country to a point self isolating meant missing out on the beginning of training. Is this another cock up on the lads part, or more likely to be pre-agreed?

[Lesta Legend]

Of course it matters if you spend £30 million and get a poor return, It’s called a bad investment, these things will be scrutinised and you’ll either demand more from your investment or you’ll cut your losses and sell. I’d fully expect KP and BR take this exact stance as spending wisely is where we’re at for a club our size. Pérez by definition is a poor investment based on our outlay, poor value for money. 

 

While I don’t quite take the same stance as Rick, I think Pérez is just an okay player, works hard but just is very inconsistent . He will likely provide much needed depth across various positions. I think he gets dogs abuse unfairly. 
 

But for us to really progress we need a better right sided player and within the market we operate in better value for money. 

[UHDrive]

The problem with Perez is simple. He's taking up a place for a far better player to utilise. Play Coutinho in front of mid with madders adjacent on the right. That's the talent and match points we are losing because of him. Stats are everything and he isn't cutting it. Send him back up north with a black and white your leaving card and move on. 

[Spudulike]

Why are so many lambasting the player that provided the assist to the assist to the goal that won us the FA Cup? Don't care what he cost, he's achieved legendary status for that one moment alone. 

[Jonezy]

I know Ayoze does not put up big numbers as an offensive player, but he is excellent in the press and often win the ball and create counter attack opportunities for us. And on some occassions that is what is needed to create magic....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVj3XpzubjM&ab_channel=Sal'Zer

 

But yeah, we probably thought we would get a bit more for 30 million than a less charming Okazaki. Can't see anybody wanting to buy him for decent money, so he will probably still be a source of frustration for us this season.

[AKCJ]

46 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....there is a monetary value assigned to every player that the market works to!!!

The cost of a player would denote an expectancy of a valued return and failure to reach that expectancy leads to questions.

1. Did we pay too much

2. is there an issue in his fitness

3. Has he been afforded the best opportunity to excel (i.e. playing in his right position).

4. Can we in the long term make him better.

    If we bought Harry Kane into the club, he would come with a certain level of expectancy, but bringing in Kabak at £8m would warrantee a feeling of squad depth and a lesser level of expectancy.

  There is a market out there, we can not choose to ignore that there is a reason it exists.

There's a difference between what you would expect based on price and what you expect based on ability.

 

Based on price Perez should be first choice and scoring 10-15 goals next season but he won't because we overpaid for him. He doesn't have the ability to do that.

[AKCJ]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

We often hear that his fee was not his fault which is true but to say it is irrelevant is ridiculous.

 

What we pay for a player directly affects what we are able to pay for others.  If we get it wrong as in the case of AP we are lumbered with a player that we cannot sell on or replace and who is several levels below the rest of his team mates.

 

Incidentally, I'm selling my car.  It has a Fred Flintstone style hole in the floor and it runs like it's farting the national anthem.  Would you like to buy it for ten grand?  It's not worth ten grand of course but that's irrelevant.

 

 

You've missed my point in the same way the guy I just responded to has.

[Finnegan]

There's nothing controversial about what @AKCJ has said. You don't have to think Perez is all that exciting a footballer to realise we can't and won't sell him while the squad is so sparse at the front.

 

Of course we need better players but we can't sell him until we've found one or two more. 

[UHDrive]

11 minutes ago, Jonezy said:

I know Ayoze does not put up big numbers as an offensive player, but he is excellent in the press and often win the ball and create counter attack opportunities for us. And on some occassions that is what is needed to create magic....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVj3XpzubjM&ab_channel=Sal'Zer

 

But yeah, we probably thought we would get a bit more for 30 million than a less charming Okazaki. Can't see anybody wanting to buy him for decent money, so he will probably still be a source of frustration for us this season.

Often the only pressing I saw was when he was sprinting to find someone's foot to trip over.

[Ric Flair]

36 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

My initial post was saying that we shouldn't get rid while we didn't have strong options for his positions and you argued with it.

And I'd still argue it, maybe selling before buying strengthens our position on what we'd get for him. I know you place less importance on transfer fees but if we pretend we don't want to lose him and mugs like Everton fall for it then surely that's a shrewd piece of business? We aren't an endless money put, hence why for 2 seasons running our squad has ran out of steam and we also didn't get all the players in we wanted to.

[sacreblueits442]

10 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

There's a difference between what you would expect based on price and what you expect based on ability.

 

Based on price Perez should be first choice and scoring 10-15 goals next season but he won't because we overpaid for him. He doesn't have the ability to do that.

...the only problem is, ability comes at a price!!!

[Ric Flair]

8 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

There's nothing controversial about what @AKCJ has said. You don't have to think Perez is all that exciting a footballer to realise we can't and won't sell him while the squad is so sparse at the front.

 

Of course we need better players but we can't sell him until we've found one or two more. 

Why? You're making out like going and signing replacements is like trying to finger an eel, it's bread and butter stuff.

[AKCJ]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Why? You're making out like going and signing replacements is like trying to finger an eel, it's bread and butter stuff.

And yet here we are, 3/4 years after selling Mahrez we haven't come close.

[st albans fox]

So this is hot because we’re debating ayo rather than he may be leaving …….

[AKCJ]

7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

And I'd still argue it, maybe selling before buying strengthens our position on what we'd get for him. I know you place less importance on transfer fees but if we pretend we don't want to lose him and mugs like Everton fall for it then surely that's a shrewd piece of business? We aren't an endless money put, hence why for 2 seasons running our squad has ran out of steam and we also didn't get all the players in we wanted to.

If we are able to line up his sale with a replacement then fine. We just shouldn't sell him without a replacement. I don't see why you wouldn't do that.

[Ric Flair]

Just now, AKCJ said:

And yet here we are, 3/4 years after selling Mahrez we haven't come close.

We've signed 3 different wingers since then, what difference would it have made if we'd signed Ghezzal, Perez or Ünder before selling Riyad?