Ayoze Perez

[shen]

1 hour ago, urban fox said:

Lets not forget just how valuable he is to FT. If he were to leave we would need to find another scapegoat/hate figure to bitch about on here.

We have several lined up waiting in the wings: Hamza, Kel, Maddison, Mendy, Praet. Basically anyone bar Vardy.

[tetly]

It would be a great transfer window if we could recoup what we paid for him. He just isn’t good enough for what we need.

[don_danbury]

3 minutes ago, tetly said:

It would be a great transfer window if we could recoup what we paid for him. He just isn’t good enough for what we need.

i'd be surprised if we got half of what we paid for him tbh. 

[shen]

Just now, don_danbury said:

i'd be surprised if we got half of what we paid for him tbh. 

It's unclear exactly how much we've paid so far and how much is still due or dependent on achievement factors though.

[fuchsntf]

18 hours ago, murphy said:

Well that's not going to happen... linking to another club that is.

 

So let's leave it on a positive.   The one and only thing that can be the answer to the question: 'remember when Ayoze Perez........ ?'

 

I think we can all agree, AP's finest hour:

 

 

 

 

 

Losers quote...

all These continual Digs at a player, wearing the foxes-badge, in Two successful seasons has become quite pathetic..

and doesn't shine any bright light, on the base character of this forum...b

FFS..Let it go..

[Stadt]

His stats are abysmal and back up what you can see for yourself.

 

Percentiles across AMs/Wingers in the top 5 European leagues

14th for goals

25th for assists

52nd for xG

7th for xA (!!!)

27th for non penalty xG + xA

44th for key passes

48th for throughballs

22nd for crosses

32nd for dispossession (lower %ile is worse)

 

He's not even putting up average stats, his lack of creativity is embarrassing. When we signed him I thought, yeah - he's a hardworking goalscorer but not creative or dynamic. He's not even been much of a goalscorer for us.

 

He's got 10 goals in 37.1 league 90s but

3 came against a defeated 10 man Southampton

2 against West Ham, the last 2 goals in a 4-1 win, one was a penalty.

3 against post lockdown Sheff United, one of the worst PL sides ever.

 

Cut our losses whilst we can.

 

[notnow john]

My brother in law works for the “Northern Echo”which is more of a Durham publication than Newcastle

but the football journalists often go out for a catch up curry.

Their take on it was,an upfront fee of 17 million and the rest in mostly unachievable add ons,because

Mike Ashley didn’t want to upset the fans!

Saying unachievable,winning a major trophy gets them a chunk so it could be up to 20mill now!

[UHDrive]

6 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Unfair to expect him to own the position from the off but you never know. He will certainly make a great impact player for us in the short term. Barnes gets a lot of joy still being rapid against tiring defences in the closing stages of games, Sowah can do the same.

That's good to know. He'd be going into a hell of a position to fill expectation wise, and if he did would we bring him on in the 2nd half to build him in slowly whilst fudging the area he'll be in before? I hope we don't have a situation whereby Perez plays 60 minutes and Sowah is effectively pigeon holed as Demarai Grey was. Barnes has that collective drive as a winger now but I wouldn't say he's a traditional winger in terms crossing the ball etc. It'll be good to have him back though.

 

All of the above is screaming "get a RW in!!!"

[foxinsocks]

Has any club bern linked with perez?

[Cameron Davidson]

3 hours ago, shen said:

We have several lined up waiting in the wings: Hamza, Kel, Maddison, Mendy, Praet. Basically anyone bar Vardy.

Aren’t we still just using Chilwell?

[KingsX]

4 hours ago, Stadt said:

His stats are abysmal and back up what you can see for yourself.

 

Percentiles across AMs/Wingers in the top 5 European leagues

14th for goals

25th for assists

52nd for xG

7th for xA (!!!)

27th for non penalty xG + xA

44th for key passes

48th for throughballs

22nd for crosses

32nd for dispossession (lower %ile is worse)

 

He's not even putting up average stats, his lack of creativity is embarrassing. When we signed him I thought, yeah - he's a hardworking goalscorer but not creative or dynamic. He's not even been much of a goalscorer for us.

 

He's got 10 goals in 37.1 league 90s but

3 came against a defeated 10 man Southampton

2 against West Ham, the last 2 goals in a 4-1 win, one was a penalty.

3 against post lockdown Sheff United, one of the worst PL sides ever.

 

Cut our losses whilst we can.

 

You’ve conveniently posted the worst stats and left out every good good one    Perez’ defensive stats are elite.  His volume of pressures and 29% success rate are outstanding for a forward.  This is clearly what Rodgers values, or he wouldn’t keep playing him.  Even at the time, buying him could only be explained as the new manager’s insistence on an active, pressing, defend-from-the-front forward. 

 

He’s hardly even regressed, he is what he is.  Goals plus assists/90’ (last two seasons at NUFC): 0.45    Two seasons at Leicester: 0.40   While we may have hoped for more end product, we knew what we were getting.  We just overpaid.

 

And do you really think we "can" cut our losses?  I expect serious interest from other clubs in paying us a good fee plus Ayo his wages will materialize at the following time:

 

[gurru991]

6 hours ago, urban fox said:

Lets not forget just how valuable he is to FT. If he were to leave we would need to find another scapegoat/hate figure to bitch about on here.

So very, very true !!

FT loves to hate. !!

[HankMarvin]

5 hours ago, shen said:

We have several lined up waiting in the wings: Hamza, Kel, Maddison, Mendy, Praet. Basically anyone bar Vardy.

Go read the Vardy Thread if you think that didn’t happen 

[Dan]

7 hours ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

A hat-trick in a freak result at Southampton masked the reality of his first season’s performance as well.

 

As others have said, you’d accept it if he brought other things to the table. But in actual fact he’s detracting by hosting lockdown parties before important games and you only have to see his Twitter videos to see how he views himself and how painfully out of sync that it with the player he actually is.

 

You’d take limited ability with a great mindset over the opposite which is unfortunately what I think Perez is. There’s ability there but he’s not wired effectively to be able to apply it consistently.

Yep. I wasn't convinced by him a year ago and that was after a season where there were ways you could twist it to make it sound acceptable. Two years and it's pretty clear he's not of the required standard. I think he'll be here come the start of the season though, imagine his first game will be in the Europa League assuming we got a draw like last season.

[Foxes96]

Has he been seen in any of the pre season footage so far?

[Stadt]

1 hour ago, KingsX said:

 

You’ve conveniently posted the worst stats and left out every good good one    Perez’ defensive stats are elite.  His volume of pressures and 29% success rate are outstanding for a forward.  This is clearly what Rodgers values, or he wouldn’t keep playing him.  Even at the time, buying him could only be explained as the new manager’s insistence on an active, pressing, defend-from-the-front forward. 

 

He’s hardly even regressed, he is what he is.  Goals plus assists/90’ (last two seasons at NUFC): 0.45    Two seasons at Leicester: 0.40   While we may have hoped for more end product, we knew what we were getting.  We just overpaid.

 

And do you really think we "can" cut our losses?  I expect serious interest from other clubs in paying us a good fee plus Ayo his wages will materialize at the following time:

 

I’m aware I was cherry picking, the stats I posted make grim reading. First and foremost he’s an attacking player - his defensive output is great but is that worth him being a subpar attacker? His defensive output is also curtailed by being dispossessed at an above average rate for a player that certainly isn’t high risk/high reward.

 

He’s been a bad signing, I thought it wasn’t the right move at the time and it’s panned out that way. How many elite sides (top 5 or 6 in their respective leagues) accommodate a player for their work rate?

 

Evans, Castagne and Ndidi all had more goal contributions last season 

[FoxesWalk]

11 hours ago, KingsX said:

 

You’ve conveniently posted the worst stats and left out every good good one    Perez’ defensive stats are elite.  His volume of pressures and 29% success rate are outstanding for a forward.  This is clearly what Rodgers values, or he wouldn’t keep playing him.  Even at the time, buying him could only be explained as the new manager’s insistence on an active, pressing, defend-from-the-front forward. 

 

He’s hardly even regressed, he is what he is.  Goals plus assists/90’ (last two seasons at NUFC): 0.45    Two seasons at Leicester: 0.40   While we may have hoped for more end product, we knew what we were getting.  We just overpaid.

 

And do you really think we "can" cut our losses?  I expect serious interest from other clubs in paying us a good fee plus Ayo his wages will materialize at the following time:

 

Can we just delete every other post except this one and lock the thread? 

[Dahnsouff]

9 hours ago, Stadt said:

I’m aware I was cherry picking, the stats I posted make grim reading. First and foremost he’s an attacking player - his defensive output is great but is that worth him being a subpar attacker? His defensive output is also curtailed by being dispossessed at an above average rate for a player that certainly isn’t high risk/high reward.

 

He’s been a bad signing, I thought it wasn’t the right move at the time and it’s panned out that way. How many elite sides (top 5 or 6 in their respective leagues) accommodate a player for their work rate?

 

Evans, Castagne and Ndidi all had more goal contributions last season 

That seems obvious, but based on the stats @KingsX posted, it hardly seems likely we bought him as a goal scoring/creating player does it? Whereas his defensive stats paint a very clear picture on why he was purchased.

[Ric Flair]

34 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

That seems obvious, but based on the stats @KingsX posted, it hardly seems likely we bought him as a goal scoring/creating player does it? Whereas his defensive stats paint a very clear picture on why he was purchased.

His goal contributions at Newcastle were fairly decent, since he's been here he's found it much harder in a more attacking team perversely.

[murphy]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

That seems obvious, but based on the stats @KingsX posted, it hardly seems likely we bought him as a goal scoring/creating player does it? Whereas his defensive stats paint a very clear picture on why he was purchased.

And yet Rodgers has gone on record as saying he wants more goals from Barnes and Perez at the end of his first season.

 

If you just want a defender on the wing, we might as well play Hamza or Big Dan there.

[KingsX]

It’s a tenet of modern football: there is much value in getting the ball back within your opponent’s third.  Perez does that.

 

The manager who bought him is still here … still playing him regularly … and also likes to play Albrighton at RW, whose contribution there is mainly defensive.  Under looked more dangerous attacking than either, and couldn’t get a look.

 

Compare Barnes.  We can all agree he is indispensable: gives us another way to move the ball, dangerous when it gets there.  But his defensive stats are poor.  Maybe Rodgers just likes to balance that, with a terrier who never stops attacking the ball.  “Deep green” attacking (stats) on one side, “deep green” pressing and ball recovery on the other.

 

 

Our data crunchers have no doubt been looking for “elite two way wingers”, but the phrase is practically an oxymoron.  Unless and until we can find one, Rodgers will put Perez or Albrighton out there.  Maybe while gritting his teeth, but who knows.

 

Fans don't think Perez’ defensive value-added outweighs his shocking lack of attacking value-added.  But the manager seems to ... and players have to work within the manager’s system.  So I doubt we’ll offload him just to get rid.  Sorry Ric.

 

[murphy]

1 hour ago, KingsX said:

It’s a tenet of modern football: there is much value in getting the ball back within your opponent’s third.  Perez does that.

 

The manager who bought him is still here … still playing him regularly … and also likes to play Albrighton at RW, whose contribution there is mainly defensive.  Under looked more dangerous attacking than either, and couldn’t get a look.

 

Compare Barnes.  We can all agree he is indispensable: gives us another way to move the ball, dangerous when it gets there.  But his defensive stats are poor.  Maybe Rodgers just likes to balance that, with a terrier who never stops attacking the ball.  “Deep green” attacking (stats) on one side, “deep green” pressing and ball recovery on the other.

 

 

Our data crunchers have no doubt been looking for “elite two way wingers”, but the phrase is practically an oxymoron.  Unless and until we can find one, Rodgers will put Perez or Albrighton out there.  Maybe while gritting his teeth, but who knows.

 

Fans don't think Perez’ defensive value-added outweighs his shocking lack of attacking value-added.  But the manager seems to ... and players have to work within the manager’s system.  So I doubt we’ll offload him just to get rid.  Sorry Ric.

 

 

You've made a good case, I didn't think it was possible and if I were wearing a hat I'd take it off to you, but even if his pressing and tackling stats are above average, what use is it if your second touch is one of those tackles or you are the player that so often loses possession with poor passing, running into traffic and falling over?   

 

If he is tigerish off the ball, why can't we see some of that aggression on the ball instead of being so often nudged off it?

 

It is a constant frustration - pass, pass, pass -> Perez - lose possession.

 

I don't have any stats to back that up, just the evidence of my own eyes.

 

You might think he plays because Rodgers likes him and sees something that plebs like myself do not (very possible), but I think that he plays because we sunk our RW budget into acquiring him and we have so few other options and let's not forget that even Rodgers benched him for a spell last year before injuries left us down to the bare bones.

Edited 22 July 2021 by murphy

[KingsX]

10 minutes ago, murphy said:

 

You've made a good case, I didn't think it was possible and if I were wearing a hat I'd take it off to you, but even if his pressing and tackling stats are above average, what use is it if your second touch is one of those tackles or you are the player that so often loses possession with poor passing, running into traffic and falling over?   

 

It is a constant frustration - pass, pass, pass -> Perez - lose possession.

 

I don't have any stats to back that up, just the evidence of my own eyes.

 

Honestly mate, I am not an Ayoze fan.

                                  

I just don’t think it’s realistic to judge players completely outside how the manager prefers to set up the team.  Because our recruitment team certainly won’t.

 

Matheus Pereira might be as close to that “elite two way winger” as we can afford, and I’d love to see if he could take Ayo’s spot.

 

But In here it’s endlessly  “We could tear teams apart down both sides with Bailey!  (or Ziyech!  or name any exciting winger who spits on defensive work)”.   We’ve had two-plus years of seeing who BR selects and how he sets us up, but people just don’t pay attention.

[murphy]

3 minutes ago, KingsX said:

 

Honestly mate, I am not an Ayoze fan.

                                  

I just don’t think it’s realistic to judge players completely outside how the manager prefers to set up the team.  Because our recruitment team certainly won’t.

 

Matheus Pereira might be as close to that “elite two way winger” as we can afford, and I’d love to see if he could take Ayo’s spot.

 

But In here it’s endlessly  “We could tear teams apart down both sides with Bailey!  (or Ziyech!  or name any exciting winger who spits on defensive work)”.   We’ve had two-plus years of seeing who BR selects and how he sets us up, but people just don’t pay attention.

 

I take your point, but I'm just saying that AP is not effective in the role that you describe because we lose more from his wastefulness than we gain.  I think that we've played that way for two years because AP or Kevin are our only options.  I don't think that the idea of a ball-winning winger is by design as I don't see it in Rodgers' previous teams or anywhere else really.  

 

I think that AP was brought in to score goals.  I never rated him as a Newcastle player but he did at least score goals.

 

 

[hackneyfox]

Jesus, just how bored are you guys.

Same sets of words in a different order ad infinitum.

 

Yes he’s not as good as we hoped for when we signed him for £30m.

Think we all agree on that.

Is it really worth reiterating that point 30 times a day every day.

 

Go out, get some fresh air.