Vestergaard signs

[Mike Oxlong]

Bet he’s miffed at not getting a game today and having the opportunity to go head to head with Lamptey in a foot race 

[eblair]

feel bad rubbing salt in wounds here, but he is our 9th choice cb, what a shambles of a signing

 

fofana, evans, soyuncu, amartey, ndidi, justin, castange, hamza all in front of him at cb

 

ever been a worse signing in history of the club?

Edited 24 January 2022 by eblair

[Blanchflower78]

Think that's him done now. Can see him being made available in the summer admittedly at a knock down 5/7m price tag

[Spudulike]

1 minute ago, Blanchflower78 said:

Think that's him done now. Can see him being made available in the summer admittedly at a knock down 5/7m price tag

Again, we don't know how his transfer contract is structured. I don't think for a second the club would've paid the quoted £15m upfront and most likely in staged payments depending on appearances etc. It might be that any outlay will be recouped if they decide to sell. 

[Ric Flair]

The most worrying thing about all of this isn't Jannick Vestergaard himself, it's the decision of our club to sign him and it's behaviours both before he signed and now, that is a huge concern.

 

He is completely unsuitable to the way we play, I'd say it was a panic signing but then how do we explain the pursuit of him back in January 2020? This wasn't just a thumb in the air pick a player out, this club had a long interest in him and yet there's not a single element to his game that can play in a high line or be put under pressure.

 

But where I'm very scared is that this club must have either so few targets in central defence in the £10-20m bracket that I'm asking big questions of what on earth has happened to our scouting and recruitment methods. Yet again we are in dire need of a new CB and yet we seem to have given up our attempts to get someone in temporarily. Like when Fofana got injured and we suddenly needed a new centre half, the reaction to that was horrible in bringing in Vestergaard. 

 

Where were the young, up and coming defenders who we were so good at scouting and bringing in? I've read the argument that we had to go from a young defender to an older defender but why when Fofana was the young defender being injured? Question marks were hanging over Jonny Evans but they were whilst Fofana was fit too so I don't buy that at all. We made a huge mistake, just like we seem to have with wasting our time and resources on Bertrand and Soumare in a non priority position when the funds could have been used elsewhere where they are badly needed.

 

That's why Congerton needs to go and rhe club take back control of the recruitment where Rodgers is only a view point in to the process and not the final say.

[Les-TA-Jon]

16 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

The most worrying thing about all of this isn't Jannick Vestergaard himself, it's the decision of our club to sign him and it's behaviours both before he signed and now, that is a huge concern.

 

He is completely unsuitable to the way we play, I'd say it was a panic signing but then how do we explain the pursuit of him back in January 2020? This wasn't just a thumb in the air pick a player out, this club had a long interest in him and yet there's not a single element to his game that can play in a high line or be put under pressure.

 

But where I'm very scared is that this club must have either so few targets in central defence in the £10-20m bracket that I'm asking big questions of what on earth has happened to our scouting and recruitment methods. Yet again we are in dire need of a new CB and yet we seem to have given up our attempts to get someone in temporarily. Like when Fofana got injured and we suddenly needed a new centre half, the reaction to that was horrible in bringing in Vestergaard. 

 

Where were the young, up and coming defenders who we were so good at scouting and bringing in? I've read the argument that we had to go from a young defender to an older defender but why when Fofana was the young defender being injured? Question marks were hanging over Jonny Evans but they were whilst Fofana was fit too so I don't buy that at all. We made a huge mistake, just like we seem to have with wasting our time and resources on Bertrand and Soumare in a non priority position when the funds could have been used elsewhere where they are badly needed.

 

That's why Congerton needs to go and the club take back control of the recruitment where Rodgers is only a view point in to the process and not the final say.

Totally agree with this post. But do we actually know what influence Rodgers has on signings? 

[desertfox2]

On 23/01/2022 at 14:24, Bordersfox said:

Don't worry everyone, it's been reported today in the LM that after an up and down start to the season Vestergaard feels he is finding his form.  We're saved! 

 

But seriously, he can't get any worse so surely if called upon again he can only put in a better performance.  

Up and down start? What or when was the up bit?? 

[FoxinNotts]

Watch us wheel him out for the Forest game, to partner Choudhury, as we save our legs for the Liverpool clash

[Ric Flair]

8 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Totally agree with this post. But do we actually know what influence Rodgers has on signings? 

What we do know is that Lee Congerton is his man, which that alone puts him more influential with the recruitment process than before. Congerton and Rodgers have an iffy track record at other clubs and maybe it's unfair to tarnish them with the notion that our club have relinquished authority on signings over to them but given Rodgers has been able to make other staff changes in areas that were seperate to his entourage then it's a fair concern to have. When you consider our injury problems have worsened since he's been able to get his own man in in charge and our recruitment model has shifted slightly there's no smoke without fire.

[Matt_Lcfc]

On 22/01/2022 at 23:27, Jobyfox said:

Hats off to you sir. It took 2.5 pages for somebody to actually say this at the start of this thread. Up to then everyone was saying what a good signing he was.

 

Hindsight eh ...... 

This is true but we aren’t part of the recruitment team are we? It’s a bit of an invalid point really - most people were judging his ability based on two minute highlight clips at Southampton. 
 

But one would assume that our scouts were watching him play regular 90 minute football and analysing him on a thorough level. 

Edited 24 January 2022 by Matt_Lcfc

[Spudulike]

9 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

What we do know is that Lee Congerton is his man, which that alone puts him more influential with the recruitment process than before. Congerton and Rodgers have an iffy track record at other clubs and maybe it's unfair to tarnish them with the notion that our club have relinquished authority on signings over to them but given Rodgers has been able to make other staff changes in areas that were seperate to his entourage then it's a fair concern to have. When you consider our injury problems have worsened since he's been able to get his own man in in charge and our recruitment model has shifted slightly there's no smoke without fire.

Congerton has gone, hasn't he? I'm not sure who are chief scout is now, if we even have one. 

[Jobyfox]

41 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

The most worrying thing about all of this isn't Jannick Vestergaard himself, it's the decision of our club to sign him and it's behaviours both before he signed and now, that is a huge concern.

 

He is completely unsuitable to the way we play, I'd say it was a panic signing but then how do we explain the pursuit of him back in January 2020? This wasn't just a thumb in the air pick a player out, this club had a long interest in him and yet there's not a single element to his game that can play in a high line or be put under pressure.

 

But where I'm very scared is that this club must have either so few targets in central defence in the £10-20m bracket that I'm asking big questions of what on earth has happened to our scouting and recruitment methods. Yet again we are in dire need of a new CB and yet we seem to have given up our attempts to get someone in temporarily. Like when Fofana got injured and we suddenly needed a new centre half, the reaction to that was horrible in bringing in Vestergaard. 

 

Where were the young, up and coming defenders who we were so good at scouting and bringing in? I've read the argument that we had to go from a young defender to an older defender but why when Fofana was the young defender being injured? Question marks were hanging over Jonny Evans but they were whilst Fofana was fit too so I don't buy that at all. We made a huge mistake, just like we seem to have with wasting our time and resources on Bertrand and Soumare in a non priority position when the funds could have been used elsewhere where they are badly needed.

 

That's why Congerton needs to go and rhe club take back control of the recruitment where Rodgers is only a view point in to the process and not the final say.

Great post - because whatever perspective you're looking at the Vestergaard signing from it's an extremely poor call and we should try and learn lessons from it. 

 

Personally I'm always a bit dubious about "squad signings" and, if we have to make them, they should be young players with potential or players on loan. I always think it's better that your main transfer targets are intended to improve the first eleven. That way some of your starters might become squad players - and the team evolves/improves. 

 

We keep hearing about reaching the pinnacle with our current squad but, if your recruitment is poor, that's inevitable. The players we signed in the summer have not improved our starting eleven with everyone fit. That means that the ultimate we can achieve will be what we've previously accomplished with this squad. Imagine if we'd gone all out for a right sided midfielder who immediately improved our options when everyone is fit. 

 

The hierarchy for me should always be (you move down the list as money runs out): 

Players who improve the first team

Players for the squad/future (young players like Daka and Soumare)

Loan Players with future potential to buy (Lookman)

Squad players/Free agents (like Bertrand)

Loan signings or short term contracts to cover for unforeseen injuries

 

I'm not sure we followed that hierarchy in the summer and, certainly with Vestergaard, I can't see where he fits. £15m and a 3 year contract doesn't make much sense in any category 

 

 

Edited 24 January 2022 by Jobyfox

[Jobyfox]

16 minutes ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

This is true but we aren’t part of the recruitment team are we? It’s a bit of an invalid point really - most people were judging his ability based on two minute highlight clips at Southampton. 
 

But one would assume that our scouts were watching him play regular 90 minute football and analysing him on a thorough level. 

I wasn't really trying to make any point really. 

 

I, myself, do not watch Southampton every week and assumed that we would be getting an experienced professional/international used to playing in the Premier League. I though he'd provide good back up, but also challenge the established starters - given his age, profile and signing on fee. 

 

In hindsight he's totally unsuited to the way we play but, perhaps more worryingly, doesn't look to have outstanding attributes in any area. 

 

The guy I picked out called it spot on. I can't claim that I did. 

 

 

[Ric Flair]

29 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Congerton has gone, hasn't he? I'm not sure who are chief scout is now, if we even have one. 

Not left yet I don't think but word is that even if he doesn't join Atalanta that his contract is up here soon anyway. 

[Matt_Lcfc]

1 hour ago, Jobyfox said:

I wasn't really trying to make any point really. 

 

I, myself, do not watch Southampton every week and assumed that we would be getting an experienced professional/international used to playing in the Premier League. I though he'd provide good back up, but also challenge the established starters - given his age, profile and signing on fee. 

 

In hindsight he's totally unsuited to the way we play but, perhaps more worryingly, doesn't look to have outstanding attributes in any area. 

 

The guy I picked out called it spot on. I can't claim that I did. 

 

 

I am sorry if I misinterpreted you. On the flip side, I do think that people sometimes think that we shouldn’t complain because supporters think that he would be a good player.

 

After watching him / listening to what Southampton fans said, it’s glaringly obvious that he would be a bad fit. Given we have played a high line under Rodgers and to be frank, he is simply an absolute lump. It also completely ignores the transfer policy that has made us successful in recent years too - why are we going for old and mediocre players? 
 

Quite simply, I am trying to make the point that signing him and Bertrand was pathetic recruitment & questions need to be asked.

[Number 6]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

What we do know is that Lee Congerton is his man, which that alone puts him more influential with the recruitment process than before. Congerton and Rodgers have an iffy track record at other clubs and maybe it's unfair to tarnish them with the notion that our club have relinquished authority on signings over to them but given Rodgers has been able to make other staff changes in areas that were seperate to his entourage then it's a fair concern to have. When you consider our injury problems have worsened since he's been able to get his own man in in charge and our recruitment model has shifted slightly there's no smoke without fire.

I think it is imperative that clubs like ourselves keep recruitment and management separate. Ok there will need to be open lines of communication but we should have a buying policy that operates within our own checks and balances, and recruit managers who fit the way we set up and don't demand too much control. It's just way too many eggs in one basket otherwise. If we want to seriously challenge for top 6 then it will require sensible long term planning - and for a club like us a huge part of that comes from the recruitment. 

[jim5000]

Vestergaard will become a cult hero for us as he heads in the winners (for us, just to be clear) in this season’s Europa Conference and FA Cup finals.

 

Of this I have no doubt 

Edited 24 January 2022 by jim5000

[Mike Oxlong]

14 hours ago, jim5000 said:

Vestergaard will become a cult hero for us as he heads in the winners (for us, just to be clear) in this season’s Europa Conference and FA Cup finals.

 

Of this I have no doubt 

[Jaspa]

19 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

The most worrying thing about all of this isn't Jannick Vestergaard himself, it's the decision of our club to sign him and it's behaviours both before he signed and now, that is a huge concern.

 

He is completely unsuitable to the way we play, I'd say it was a panic signing but then how do we explain the pursuit of him back in January 2020? This wasn't just a thumb in the air pick a player out, this club had a long interest in him and yet there's not a single element to his game that can play in a high line or be put under pressure.

 

But where I'm very scared is that this club must have either so few targets in central defence in the £10-20m bracket that I'm asking big questions of what on earth has happened to our scouting and recruitment methods. Yet again we are in dire need of a new CB and yet we seem to have given up our attempts to get someone in temporarily. Like when Fofana got injured and we suddenly needed a new centre half, the reaction to that was horrible in bringing in Vestergaard. 

 

Where were the young, up and coming defenders who we were so good at scouting and bringing in? I've read the argument that we had to go from a young defender to an older defender but why when Fofana was the young defender being injured? Question marks were hanging over Jonny Evans but they were whilst Fofana was fit too so I don't buy that at all. We made a huge mistake, just like we seem to have with wasting our time and resources on Bertrand and Soumare in a non priority position when the funds could have been used elsewhere where they are badly needed.

 

That's why Congerton needs to go and rhe club take back control of the recruitment where Rodgers is only a view point in to the process and not the final say.

 

On the same day we signed Ngolo Kante, Yohan Benalouane was unveiled. We've always had potential to sign compete bob. It's the ratio of good/bad which needs evaluating before concerns can be raised.

 

Fofana 21

Evans 34

Soyuncu 25

Amartey 27

Vestergaard 29

 

Evans > Soyuncu > Fofana > Amartey > Vestergaard. Hierarchy.

 

Evans is often crocked and hasn't cracked into the captaincy role, we've got at best another 2 seasons out of him.

Soyuncu's confidence is decimated. He's no longer the swashbuckling monster he appeared to be in Rodgers first full session - whether that's fully on the manager I don't know, but he's certainly gone in 2 seasons if he won't sign a contract and realistically will be gone this summer if we want to cash in.

Fofana is world class in the making. Interested clubs will probably want to see if he's still the same player after a major injury. He's contracted until 2025, so we could have him for another couple of seasons, assuming his resurgence is gradual. And we'll get major money. But he needs an experienced player to partner him, he's also a particularly strong RCB in a 3.

Amartey is seen as backup, a simple CB who's gone months without an appearance before our squad has been decimated. Although on showing he's developed into a very capable defender and is a strong personality ... but his contract is up. Needs to be retained imo.

Vestergaard has flopped hard, a lethargic lummox for us, a quality experienced CB for Denmark at the Euro's. Long contract and in his prime . As mentioned tactically doesn't suit our style at all. Will struggle for a buyer but if he does go this summer we'll need to replace with experience.

 

So out of our defence now, after two seasons we could have just 1 on them left; Wesley at 23 years of age, hopefully with most of the big boys willing to throw major money at him ... plus big Dan Amartey and a redeemed Yannick (15% chance at best). So we need to sign quality experience asap(which is usually expensive), Evans will be a massive loss. Amartey and Vestergaard could possibly be the backup 2 for the next 3-4 years if we retain. Experience is critical for a CB at this level, it cannot be understated. So I don't think we should sign another young CB for another season.

 

It's a mess, especially contractually. We're coming up to a big transitional summer.

[gw_leics772]

LETS BUILD OUR TEAM AROUND VESTERGAARD!

 

On Mercury site.

 

What a ****ing melon!

 

For all the arguments on here, we really do have a higher class of idiot and reading lcfc views of the laymen anywhere other than FT can really hurt the brain.

 

To expand, let's build our team around a panic buy who has been found to he not up to scratch. Change the way we play to accommodate his strengths, that way when our good defenders are back, we won't need them. 

 

🤣🤣🤣🤣😱😱😱😱🤯🤯🤯🤯💆

[cruzFOX]

Does anyone know if big vesty was actually a Rogers signing? I can’t understand from the background research the recruiting dept would have done that they didn’t know he would struggle in our team and style of play. It just all seems a bit baffling to me. Almost borderline comical even!

[An Sionnach]

3 minutes ago, cruzFOX said:

Does anyone know if big vesty was actually a Rogers signing? I can’t understand from the background research the recruiting dept would have done that they didn’t know he would struggle in our team and style of play. It just all seems a bit baffling to me. Almost borderline comical even!

Our recruiting department have had many hilarious moments in the last six years. Would be really funny if it hadn't cost over £100 million.

[Jon Bez]

2 hours ago, cruzFOX said:

Does anyone know if big vesty was actually a Rogers signing? I can’t understand from the background research the recruiting dept would have done that they didn’t know he would struggle in our team and style of play. It just all seems a bit baffling to me. Almost borderline comical even!

Some on another forum I regularly read say that Rodgers overruled the recruitment team and that they had strongly advised against signing him. How true this is I don't know but it seems an odd signing indeed. 

[Sampson]

On 31/01/2022 at 10:34, gw_leics772 said:

LETS BUILD OUR TEAM AROUND VESTERGAARD!

 

On Mercury site.

 

What a ****ing melon!

 

For all the arguments on here, we really do have a higher class of idiot and reading lcfc views of the laymen anywhere other than FT can really hurt the brain.

 

To expand, let's build our team around a panic buy who has been found to he not up to scratch. Change the way we play to accommodate his strengths, that way when our good defenders are back, we won't need them. 

 

🤣🤣🤣🤣😱😱😱😱🤯🤯🤯🤯💆

As much as you joke, it's only a few years ago that plenty on here were saying we should build the team round Beckford and it was the manager's fault he was garbage, so our fans have form about "it's the system"-ing and demanding we build the team around obviously crap players.

Edited 1 February 2022 by Sampson

[cruzFOX]

we sure look like mugs with having spent good money on Bert and erny (Bertrand/vesty). I can’t see any improvement from them and they are costing us in more ways then one. If we can’t sell them off we should terminate their contracts and drop them back off at Southampton. Absolute rubbish!

why haven’t any heads rolled with this issue?