The summer rebuild/refresh

[smudgerfox]

4 hours ago, Happy Fox said:

We play Nacho and Vardy from the start we at least take the game to extra time. But Rodgers seems very reluctant to change his philosophy for the greater good of the team.

I find the attitude towards Nacho absolutely incredible - not only from the manager but from fellow fans. At least when Nacho is on we play the ball to him and it stays up and away from our penalty area - he comes short , links the play , turns and plays the ball forward ..he actually helps us defend - the ball into Vardy is almost always snaffled up by opponents and they can come back at us. And he helps us build around the 18 yard box.People  talk about Nachos control but did you see Vardy last night? Have you been watching Daka in recent weeks?

 

His goal and assist record makes him worth building our formation around him as we once did around Vardy - but Rodgers insists on his system regardless of the players at his disposal…

 

 

 

 

 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, adam said:

We need a striker. Vardy can't be relyed upon to start next year. Daka looks well off and Ian is hopless on his own. 

 

We have a squad full of players where half of them arnt good enough to start in a league game. 

Just as important is a system that gets the best out of our attacking players. Daka in a front 2 will score 15+ a season, so will Iheanacho. Only Vardy has managed to succeed in a system that sees our striker seldom get the ball in dangerous areas and manage to remain alert enough to convert a ridiculous % of shots compared to the average.

 

Simply bringing another striker in without recognising the problems will likely see similar results. 

[adam]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Just as important is a system that gets the best out of our attacking players. Daka in a front 2 will score 15+ a season, so will Iheanacho. Only Vardy has managed to succeed in a system that sees our striker seldom get the ball in dangerous areas and manage to remain alert enough to convert a ridiculous % of shots compared to the average.

 

Simply bringing another striker in without recognising the problems will likely see similar results. 

Just can't see Rodgers playing with a front 2 often enough. Also not convinced Daka will score 15+ in a Premier league  season but we shall see. 

[Larry_LCFC]

We already have a really a talented squad. Granted this season's failure will cost us atleast Youri, but we have some very capable players already here.

 

The biggest refresh we need is managerial wise. BR cannot and will not get the best out of this team. Prolonging it out for another season will do nobody any favours.

[Ric Flair]

Just now, adam said:

Just can't see Rodgers playing with a front 2 often enough. Also not convinced Daka will score 15+ in a Premier league  season but we shall see. 

Not many teams do play a front 2 which is our issue as 2 of our 3 strikers are wholly unsuited to the modern front 3, but that's our issue. You play to the strengths of the players collectively and not the managers vision. It's nuts they've brought Daka in and 1st half of the season played him exclusively in a 2 which is what he did so devastatingly at Salzburg and then as soon as Vardy got injured, refused to pair him with another forward and his confidence and output diminished over time. 

 

There's a fair chance with his pace he can be moulded in to the Vardy role but given the horrendous lack of movement in our team this season it's very difficult for any of them to make a telling impact up top. Funnily enough his better cameo performances in recent months have come away vs PSV and 1st half vs Spurs where once again he had another forward closer to him to help get him in behind, don't know why it's specifically that that does it but the evidence is there.

 

[Vazman]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

We are at a crossroads, we've been here before when we toiled after the unbelievable glory of 2015/16 and spent a few years making mistakes and not really progressing to match the ambition that we are now accustomed to under Vichai and now Top.

 

I'm pragmatic enough to accept that we face such a monumental challenge to remain progressive and the best of the rest who take advantage of any regression of the ugly 6 but at the same time we'd never have done what we'd done time and time again if we didn't have the ambition and belief to upset the narrative and tired footballing cliches. 

 

Let's be clear, we are tailing off. There's mitigating circumstances but the momentum is fast vanishing and it won't quite be as easy to pick it up next season as it was in 2020/21 after the disappointment of 2019/20 because this under performance has now lasted more than a few months, it's best part of a year or more and there's a handful of players who have mentally checked out and some others that might have gone stale here and our manager is powerless to evoke a sustained improvement from them. This happens, many good managers, some even better than Brendan have ran their course at clubs and 3.5 years is quite a long time in the modern game but I don't think he's off any time soon and so we have to put together a plan that halts this slide.

 

The non-negotiable stuff that is unforgivable is the issue with set pieces, whatever is happening whether it's a fundamental coaching and instruction issue with Rodgers and his team or the players are in a crisis of confidence that they cannot get out of, something has to change. We need a specialist set piece coach, even just for a short term confidence boost. Arsenal got one in and apparently haven't conceded from a corner or free kick all season, ALL season, not 1 goal. We are at about 25 conceded and its just staggering. This alone has been enough to take us from still being competitive in the top 8 and having some mental resolve to being an accident waiting to happen that could finish in our lowest league position since we nearly got relegated. There's no excuses, Rodgers says the team lack desire and aggression to clear the ball, I don't completely buy that it's just that but we do have a soft underbelly. But both defending and attacking set pieces is hopeless, it's like a golfer having the yips and trying to compete for the prizes, horrid.

 

The injury issues have been a huge blot on the copybook. Mistakes have been made but I'm sensing a breakthrough with this, Rodgers seems to be listening more, whether it's the new physio and the doctor departing but it feels like we're trying to rectify it and that's positive. We cannot expect to progress if we cannot keep the nucleus of our squad fit, even without 60+ games in Europe we can't simply assume we will be OK next season, we have to strive to maintain an excellent squad fitness and conditioning, we cannot afford to be without vast numbers of key players and it threatens our entire model as a club.

 

The style of football needs a shake up. Rodgers is tagged as being stubborn and refuses to change but I'm not so sure, he's made adjustments to the way his teams play and in recent times its not been positive. Our lack of movement, creativity and energy is a problem. When those key elements are missing then playing possession football is like watching your Nan eat pea's off a fork, we need to get back to what we are best at and refresh the squad to play high energy and fast football. Whether that's retaining possession more than the opposition or conceding the iniative but pressing high and setting traps to overturn play and counter, it's the only way we will succeed under Brendan. He can change as a manager but I don't think he's got the skillet to be a truly pragmatic and defensive manager, none of his teams have ever been masters at defending it's not in his D.N.A and yet in recent times here he's lost the drive to demand attacking football and tries to contain things and control games with a defence that will always provide at least 1 gift, its suicidal policy and has to change.

 

On to the squad refresh, this has to be under the model the club has been so successful at. Young and progressive players who we won't have to pay nearly 6 figures a week to and the odd experienced player with a point to prove. With no European football we may be seen as less attractive a proposition but even without that and a potential restriction on the amount of wages we can offer, we'll still be a huge huge pay increase for many of the sorts of progressive players from inferior leagues who'd be interested, like we've done proir to Rodgers coming here.

 

I think we could be open to moving on anywhere up to 10 players and bring in 6-7. I don't think we need thr size of squad we've had previously unless our injury issues continue but that's not enough of a reason to carry extra players just in case, we have to be efficiently ran.

 

Outs:

 

Soyuncu £20m

Tielemans £20m

Iheanacho £25m

Choudhury or Mendy £2m

Perez £4m

Soumare £10m

Praet loan with obligation to buy £10m

Bertrand loan

Amartey or Vestergaard £5m

Various academy loans - Wright, Braybrooke, Hirst, Wanya Marca etc

 

Ins:

 

Niakhate from Mainz / Carmo from Braga £15m / Colwill from Chelsea loan

Piroe from Swansea £20m / De Ketelaere from Brugge £25m

Kokcu from Feyenoord £25m 

Kamara from Marseille free

Lookman £12m

Madueke £20m / Johnson from Forest £25m

Ebiowi from Derby £1m

 

 

Well said and some good points, and suggestions, I think couple of your selling figures are a bit generous though.

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Just as important is a system that gets the best out of our attacking players. Daka in a front 2 will score 15+ a season, so will Iheanacho. Only Vardy has managed to succeed in a system that sees our striker seldom get the ball in dangerous areas and manage to remain alert enough to convert a ridiculous % of shots compared to the average.

 

Simply bringing another striker in without recognising the problems will likely see similar results. 

None of them, or even a new one,  is going to score without them receiving the ball in the right areas commensurate with the way/style each of them plays at their best. It's almost as if Rogers only wants goals scored if they are achieved in a way he wants them to be scored in a system dictated by him. How would he have coped with a Gary Lineker or Robbie Fowler, would he simply not play them because they inevitably would only score in a way alien to his system? Would he sell them or just stick them on the bench? Or would he adapt his precious philosophy to encompass a top quality striker?

[FoxyJim1987]

9 hours ago, EnglishOxide said:

Nobody saying what needs to be said. It's a shame as he is a legend but it is what it is.

 

Kasper has reached his limit. Half the reason we are so poor at set pieces is that he is incapable of dominating his area.

 

If we are going to rebuild we need to start phasing him out. Go and get Nick Pope.

Exactly my thoughts. Break the bank on Pickford or Pope and play Kasper in cup games, keep him as a spokesman like Wes Morgan was for a couple of years. If he doesn't like it then cheers and that but see you later. He's been a great servant but his unwillingness to  come off his line and his shite distribution has gone on long enough now. 

 

In the summer we need at least 1 RW, at least 2 CM, ( maybe more if Youri and more like Mendy or Hamza go) and a full time too quality partner for Fofana.

 

Some people I'd target that wouldn't cost the earth: 

 

Ismaila Sarr 

Noni Madueke 

Abdoulaye Doucoure 

Christian Eriksen 

John Swift 

Levi Colwill 

Malang Sarr 

James Tarkowski 

 

 

 

 

 

[SixtiesFox]

Massive close season coming up.I do however believe that we have a squad with real potential on which to build. Some radical trimming is clearly required. Firstly I'd raise significant funds by cashing in on Tielemans and Soyuncu and moving on a number of players that clearly aren't good enough: Vestegaard, Bertrand, Hamza. I also think it's time to move on from Kasper and Albrighton and Jamie, legend though he is, I'm afraid will only be a bit part player next season. But we still have plenty of real quality and youth to build upon: Maddison, Ndidi. KDH, Wes, Justin, Ricardo, Castagne, Evans for starters.  And then there's Daka, Soumare, Praet, Lookman, Kelechi and even Mendi who have not been given a fair chance by Rodgers because of his one dimensional tactics and apparent determination to force square pegs into round holes. Then there's Barnes and Thomas, the former horribly short of confidence and out of form but surely he can be turned around. If we add a goalkeeper who can command his area, a goal scoring right winger, a creative and combative midfielder, another experienced defender and give some of our talented youth players an opportunity in what is left of this season, then I think the future looks bright. However, key to this vital overhaul to breathe new life into our tired squad will be moving Rodgers on. He has failed to get the most out of many of the players he has had at his disposal this season and I don't think he can be trusted to identify and add the players we need (30 million for Perez who he's rarely utilized in order to play to his strengths is perhaps the most damning indictment). He's had a good run and the FA Cup triumph will live long in the memory but it's time for him to go.     

Edited 6 May 2022 by SixtiesFox

[Sampson]

I’m really not sure why people are saying time to move on from Vardy. 
 

He was absolutely brilliant in the first half of the season before his injury and looked sharp as ever and was the main player dragging us to mid table when we were conceding 2 goals a game. Our goals dried up virtually as soon as he got injured.

 

He was keeping up with Salah until his injury goals wise and was a genuine shout for the 2nd best player in the league this season until his injury.

 

Our points per game with and without Vardy this season is absolutely stark this season and equates to about an extra 15 points over the season compared to playing with Iheanacho and Daka.

 

Now he’s had exactly 2 anonymous games with zero service when he’s just come back from a lengthy injury, suddenly he’s past it?

 

The evidence this season has shown he’s still by far our best and most important player. And the player we missed most desperately of all when he was out.

Of course he won’t last forever, but anyone saying we need to move on from him already this summer is utterly insane and has watched a completely different Vardy from me this season. 

Edited 6 May 2022 by Sampson

[Bryn]

A keeper that can take a ball in the air would make a big difference. I have a lot of time for Kasper but if we want nimble ball playing defenders who want to hold a high line but aren't good in the air, we need a monster goalkeeper who can look after his own 6 yd box.

[Le Renard]

I've said this before on other threads, I'm not sure if a rebuild/refresh is needed, maybe Rodgers has hoodwinked us and the media into thinking we need one.  At the start of the season, you would have thought 1 or 2 will go, but now I'm thinking 4 or 5.   This could be because some players have just stopped listening to him, or they have genuinely just got fed up being at our club and could be looking for more money & game time.  If I was the board /owners I would be asking some questions about what has gone on under Rodgers tenure.   Getting 4 or 5 new bodies in and selling players in their last year of contracts does not make great business sense.  

[RowlattsFox]

It won't happen for a year at least because of his new contract, wel I'd like to think so anyway but Fofana is the only player we could ask a huge price for. Maybe Maddison at a push but that's only because he extra English tax, not that I think anyone will come in for him..

 

The lack of European football could help us next year, sounds stupid and I hate saying it but it could. 

 

Problem we've got ourselves in is the contract situations with a few players where we really have to sell this summer..

[Tielemans63]

Great news everyone. Indykalia has just come out of a meeting and looks like we'll be fine.

 

 

[Shane]

I’m craving our 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 counter attacking football from 15/16.

 

So bored of watching this tiki taka style.

[J. James]

The whole problem is Rodgers and l fear that we are gonna lose players because of his dreadful system and his unwillingness to play anything close to attacking football, if l were Nacho I'd be gone -  careers are short and he is never going to thrive under this pig headed fraud.

I can see Madders and Ndidi going too along with Tielemans.

Left to his own devices l can see Rodgers setting us back 15 years.

[The Year Of The Fox]

When I spoke to Barnes the other week, he looked utterly miserable and completely devoid of any belief that we’d make it to Tirana. 
 

Im bound to say this as I don’t like Rodgers, but I think he’s fed up of playing football under him. 
 

It’s not beyond the realms of possibility at all. And nor would it be that Barnes is the only one 

[Dahnsouff]

23 hours ago, Shane said:

I’m craving our 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 counter attacking football from 15/16.

 

So bored of watching this tiki taka style.

Alas would never work in this period I think (think we broke football) as too many play a similar style now

[UniFox21]

For me, I don't mind who we bring in, as long as the bring back the fighting spirit and desire we seem to have lost this year. Obviously with the quality we need, but the desire and fight to drag us up when we're not at our usual level  

[Getin]

Some papers report City looking for 3 additional first team players. That won’t improve the team given the ineffective recruitment last summer, likely leavers and those previously first team players who have fallen back to just squad players this season such as Barnes plus those where the passage of time has blunted their talents through no fault or lack of ambition on their part- Schmeichel, Albrighton, Vardy. A more radical revision is required.

[HighPeakFox]

4 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

When I spoke to Barnes the other week, he looked utterly miserable and completely devoid of any belief that we’d make it to Tirana. 
 

Im bound to say this as I don’t like Rodgers, but I think he’s fed up of playing football under him. 
 

It’s not beyond the realms of possibility at all. And nor would it be that Barnes is the only one 

When you say he looked it - did he say ANYTHING that would actually substantiate that? 

[The Year Of The Fox]

53 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

When you say he looked it - did he say ANYTHING that would actually substantiate that? 

Not really. I’d told him we’d booked Roma and Tirana flights, and he basically said ‘fingers crossed then’ without an ounce of belief 🤷🏻‍♂️

[theessexfox]

I’d be trying to do a few of the following:

- change the manager 

- generally play 3 at the back, with the potential for Justin to slot in at RCB if needed - have the option of playing 4-3-3

- sell Tielemans, and reintegrate Praet under new management 

- sell and replace Soyuncu, leaving CB options as Fofana, Evans, new CB, Amartey, Justin - can replace Evans the following year 

- sell Ndidi (has been phenomenal for us but think he was starting to go a bit stale even before the injury) - problem is I don’t think he will attract the suitors he once would have due to his injuries, so maybe postpone until the following summer. Replace with a strong CDM who is more comfortable on the ball. Keep Mendy with assurances of more game time, think we work fine with him in CDM against less physical sides 

- keep Iheanacho, and play him in a 3-5-2 / 3-4-3 like in his best 20/21 run - rotate Vardy and Daka

- recruit a top quality RW who can also play right of the 3 in a 3-4-3, leaving wing options as new RW, Barnes, and two of Perez / Albrighton / Lookman - either don’t buy Lookman or sell one of the others 

 

I guess the question would be whether we could fund the rebuild without selling Iheanacho, but I think Soyuncu and Ndidi theoretically pay for their replacements, and I don’t think we need to replace Tielemans with Mendy / KDH / Praet / Soumare so the £20-25m we can hopefully get for Tielemans plus some extra spend can pay for the top class RW.

 

We end up losing Soyuncu, Tielemans, Ndidi, maybe Perez / Albrighton and whoever we can shift from Bertrand, Vestegaard and Choudhury, and we recruit a new CB, new CDM, Lookman and new RW. Perhaps with 3 at the back a cheap younger CB option is also needed for numbers, otherwise I don’t think we need more than 4-5 signings, especially with no europe. 
 

EDIT: forgot to mention that I’d prioritise a new contract for Maddison, build around his strengths and try and get him free centrally and relieved from defensive duties as much as possible as I think he’s been our best player for a while now and I see him as the key to us having a strong season domestically

Edited 8 May 2022 by theessexfox

[Deeg67]

4 minutes ago, theessexfox said:

I’d be trying to do a few of the following:

- change the manager 

- generally play 3 at the back, with the potential for Justin to slot in at RCB if needed - have the option of playing 4-3-3

- sell Tielemans, and reintegrate Praet under new management 

- sell and replace Soyuncu, leaving CB options as Fofana, Evans, new CB, Amartey, Justin - can replace Evans the following year 

- sell Ndidi (has been phenomenal for us but think he was starting to go a bit stale even before the injury) - problem is I don’t think he will attract the suitors he once would have due to his injuries, so maybe postpone until the following summer. Replace with a strong CDM who is more comfortable on the ball. Keep Mendy with assurances of more game time, think we work fine with him in CDM against less physical sides 

- keep Iheanacho, and play him in a 3-5-2 / 3-4-3 like in his best 20/21 run - rotate Vardy and Daka

- recruit a top quality RW who can also play right of the 3 in a 3-4-3, leaving wing options as new RW, Barnes, and two of Perez / Albrighton / Lookman - either don’t buy Lookman or sell one of the others 

 

I guess the question would be whether we could fund the rebuild without selling Iheanacho, but I think Soyuncu and Ndidi theoretically pay for their replacements, and I don’t think we need to replace Tielemans with Mendy / KDH / Praet / Soumare so the £20-25m we can hopefully get for Tielemans plus some extra spend can pay for the top class RW.

 

We end up losing Soyuncu, Tielemans, Ndidi, maybe Perez / Albrighton and whoever we can shift from Bertrand, Vestegaard and Choudhury, and we recruit a new CB, new CDM, Lookman and new RW. Perhaps with 3 at the back a cheap younger CB option is also needed for numbers, otherwise I don’t think we need more than 4-5 signings, especially with no europe. 

This is an excellent, well-considered plan that has as much chance of happening as Kasper coming off his line on a corner.

[trabuch]

We have a lot of good players. I'd quite like to see them play well.