Toxic club - an inconvenient truth about our fans

[VLC86]

6 hours ago, shen said:

Becoming violent is never 'more acceptable', why accept devolution as a way forward? 

 

My view is that many fans need to finally understand that football is a business. Clubs are businesses and many of them are vessels for billionaire owners who don't care for the local communities much if at all. Fans are consumers of a product, a product that has been cultured through years of loyal servitude, traditions and community building which is now being monetized and siphoned by wealthier folk.

So fans should change their perspective and treat it as what it is and not keep thinking professional football is something it hasn't been for years and years. 

I didn’t say to get violent, that would be completely counterproductive and unacceptable. See the above.

[shen]

7 minutes ago, VLC86 said:

I didn’t say to get violent, that would be completely counterproductive and unacceptable. See the above.

You worded it a bit clumsily then. I read it in a way that verbal violence or threats in person is likely more effective than moaning online, which it probably is, but it's also very wrong.

 

I'd advocate Manwell's method of just stop giving the club money. That's the most effective way - even if it won't necessarily hurt the personal wallets of the owners, I guarantee it will be far more monitored in-house than some placards or chants.

[It'sblueupnorth]

4 hours ago, LeePhilpottsBaldSpot said:

Classic internet response - mocking a point I didn't make. I’ve said the club’s a shambles, and most of the blame sits with the board and players. But relentless fan negativity plays a part too - and elements of this thread proves it 

 

I'm not sure fans hate posting in a Jordan Ayew thread all summer will avoid any icebergs.

There's a difference between holding the club to account and having an addiction to moaning. Our 'fans' are spending a summer adding to a 100+ page hate thread for an ex-player and a 300+ page 'King Power Out' thread that won't generate a new billionaire owner. Same mentality as booing a player coming on as a sub, chanting about murdering Rudkin and going on GB News saying you want us to get relegated because you hate the board.

 

My point remains: the board have overseen failure after failure. The players have performed below their pay grade. As a result, the fan atmosphere is toxic.

 

Yet it feels to me like:

• the board think it's the players and fans' fault - so don't change
• the players think it's the board and fans' fault - so don't change
• the fans think it's he board and players' fault - so don't change

Rinse and repeat. A culture where nobody recognises fault brings no change, and the downward spiral continues.

What a load of empty waffle. Fans don’t think it’s the board or players fault, that’s an undeniable fact, what are you actually on about. 

[ALC Fox]

As custodians of the club, the responsibility falls on the owners and the people making the decisions.

 

They recruit the managers and players, they recruit the people who scout and identify coaching and playing talent. They had the financial strategies that have seen us docked six points, escape further punishment on a technicality and leave us indebted to an Australian investment bank where the money we borrowed was made against the continuation of Premier League TV money.

 

The players take slightly less responsibility. As mentioned, some of them were recruited poorly and not enough thought has gone into assembling a coherent squad with a defined playing style with complementary personalities. But they are the ones producing the guff on the pitch so a large proportion of the responsibility rests with them too.

 

The fans. Well, there are certainly many of them who will moan regardless. I used to know a guy who moaned constantly about how crap we were during the O'Neill glory days. Used to boil my p1ss and I was only a child.

 

But, by and large, the fans respond to what is happening on the pitch and in the boardroom. When we were producing miracles, we were causing earth tremors in jubilation. We packed the streets and Victoria Park in blue-tinted celebration.

 

Piling on now isn't fickle, the players and the board have had time and the evidence in front of our eyes and in almost everything we read about our off-pitch activities is exacerbating this feeling.

 

In recent seasons we warmed to Maresca, Fatawu, Doyle, Cifuentes (initially) and James instantly because their careers were on the up and they appeared to really want to be here. RVN didn't look interested, Cooper was dour and Martin has been a disaster in his last two seasons as a manager.

 

We will always have our depressing doom and gloom merchants who are never happy. Who are disappointed when a player who scored a brace in a 4-0 win didn't complete the hat-trick. Who think we were sh1t because we were beaten over two legs by Atletico Madrid. And we will always have our happy clappers who are oblivious to the death spiral this club is currently in and only want positivity around them.

 

In the middle, I believe the vast majority of fans are realistic, demand 100% effort no matter the quality, who were in complete dreamland and had to pinch themselves when we won the title, and who are now appalled at how far we could have fallen so quickly, from a position of apparent strength.

 

I believe most fans will support the team, even if we think they're rubbish. Of course we will, we love the club. But we also have to be willing to show how disappointed we are with this current regime as they continue to run this club badly. If they show us something different, the goodwill could just as quickly return.

 

Edited Thursday at 22:07 by ALC Fox

[Guy]

11 hours ago, LeePhilpottsBaldSpot said:

Yes - we’re shit. The board avoid accountability, plenty of players are bellends and the club is a mess. On top of that, the atmosphere online and in the ground has become properly toxic. I find this really quite sad because the club has pulled me out of some dark places in my life.

 

For about five years I've thought there are three warring camps at Leicester City:

 

• the board
• the players
• the fans

 

Each camp blames the other two and thinks they don’t need to change themselves - it's the other guys' fault. If they changed, we'd be fine. Each mindset feeds the spiral. Every 4 months we sack a manager as a sacrificial lamb, and the three camps continue. I'm not saying each camp is equally to blame - I'd say 50% board, 35% players, 15% fans. The maddening thing is that if any camp improved, the others would too - but no camp is willing to change.

 

Just look at this place: months/years of posting hate threads on Ayew (103 pages), Winks (171), Rowett (179), Kristiansen (49), King Power (338). Be honest - how much new is being said now? Will posting a 339th page find a billionaire to buy out King Power? Will a 172nd page on Harry Winks find a club to take on his wages. There’s already multiple negative threads about Russell Martin and the poor sod's been in post for about two days.

 

I’m not saying stop criticising, just that endlessly piling on the same targets creates a circle of toxicity that clearly hinders the club. We’re still Leicester City fans, and we’ve seen plenty of times when we've pulled out of dire situations with a bit of unity. I don't think it will happen when we're just relentlessly moaning - especially about things that can't be changed or players / managers that have already left the club.

 

This thread will probably die on its arse after a few laughing emojis and snippy replies, and maybe I'm wrong and that's the 'right' way to support the club these days. But personally, I’d rather try to reset the tone more to the club I fell in love with as a child than keep adding pages and pages to the same old hate threads.

 

Anyone else up for that?

I agree with a lot of what you say but there'll be nothing 'poor' about Russell Martin by the time he leaves the club - well - not financially speaking anyway!!

[Corky]

10 hours ago, Fox92 said:

It's just posts on an internet forum, nothing "toxic" about it ("toxic" has grown into an overused word now). Things could, probably should, have been much worse. There are other fanbases that have taken to the pitch, surrounded players, surrounded the owners etc and nothing of that has happened here.

I am still unsure about the "toxic" fans who simultaneously are a bunch of spoilt kids small in number yet big enough to potentially force out the owner with hurty words.

 

"There's 200 of them, all brats who have never suffered any hardship" to blue heart emoji posts "If Top reads this he will be heartbroken and will sell up!!"

[lfu]

Meanwhile on the lcfc reddit:

[VLC86]

2 hours ago, shen said:

You worded it a bit clumsily then. I read it in a way that verbal violence or threats in person is likely more effective than moaning online, which it probably is, but it's also very wrong.

 

I'd advocate Manwell's method of just stop giving the club money. That's the most effective way - even if it won't necessarily hurt the personal wallets of the owners, I guarantee it will be far more monitored in-house than some placards or chants.

Yeah maybe, it’s been a long day 😂 

 

Re stopping giving them money, you’ve seen with the season ticket renewals that they think someone else will just step into your shoes if you do that. Peaceful, persistent protests will be more effective.

[Manwell Pablo]

3 hours ago, ALC Fox said:

As custodians of the club, the responsibility falls on the owners and the people making the decisions.

 

They recruit the managers and players, they recruit the people who scout and identify coaching and playing talent. They had the financial strategies that have seen us docked six points, escape further punishment on a technicality and leave us indebted to an Australian investment bank where the money we borrowed was made against the continuation of Premier League TV money.

 

The players take slightly less responsibility. As mentioned, some of them were recruited poorly and not enough thought has gone into assembling a coherent squad with a defined playing style with complementary personalities. But they are the ones producing the guff on the pitch so a large proportion of the responsibility rests with them too.

 

The fans. Well, there are certainly many of them who will moan regardless. I used to know a guy who moaned constantly about how crap we were during the O'Neill glory days. Used to boil my p1ss and I was only a child.

 

But, by and large, the fans respond to what is happening on the pitch and in the boardroom. When we were producing miracles, we were causing earth tremors in jubilation. We packed the streets and Victoria Park in blue-tinted celebration.

 

Piling on now isn't fickle, the players and the board have had time and the evidence in front of our eyes and in almost everything we read about our off-pitch activities is exacerbating this feeling.

 

In recent seasons we warmed to Maresca, Fatawu, Doyle, Cifuentes (initially) and James instantly because their careers were on the up and they appeared to really want to be here. RVN didn't look interested, Cooper was dour and Martin has been a disaster in his last two seasons as a manager.

 

We will always have our depressing doom and gloom merchants who are never happy. Who are disappointed when a player who scored a brace in a 4-0 win didn't complete the hat-trick. Who think we were sh1t because we were beaten over two legs by Atletico Madrid. And we will always have our happy clappers who are oblivious to the death spiral this club is currently in and only want positivity around them.

 

In the middle, I believe the vast majority of fans are realistic, demand 100% effort no matter the quality, who were in complete dreamland and had to pinch themselves when we won the title, and who are now appalled at how far we could have fallen so quickly, from a position of apparent strength.

 

I believe most fans will support the team, even if we think they're rubbish. Of course we will, we love the club. But we also have to be willing to show how disappointed we are with this current regime as they continue to run this club badly. If they show us something different, the goodwill could just as quickly return.

 

no one’s reading that ffs 

[Dan]

3 hours ago, lfu said:

Meanwhile on the lcfc reddit:

These types (there are plenty about) have made the implosion a bit easier to take I must admit. There are plenty there who deserve their club going bust. Just a shame having to share it with these people.

[Le Renard]

Us fans can be a bit irrational at times, personally I've found that a bit of cold turkey is needed when supporting your team, it helps to get rid of the toxins that build up due to how crap we've been for the last few years, thanks to our wonderful board. If you can find something else to put your energy into, then it helps with the breakup!  I will always support my team, but I'm just not going to let it screw my weekends up and become a grumpy old git.

Many people on here will know someone that has lost someone close recently, or maybe someone you care for is living with an illness/disability.  Then things can get put in perspective, it is just a game with 22 people kicking a ball around, or falling over and rolling around as if you've been shot!  

[Pliskin]

5 hours ago, lfu said:

Meanwhile on the lcfc reddit:

It’s frightening that people like this are allowed behind the wheel of a car.

[Pliskin]

1 hour ago, Le Renard said:

Us fans can be a bit irrational at times, personally I've found that a bit of cold turkey is needed when supporting your team, it helps to get rid of the toxins that build up due to how crap we've been for the last few years, thanks to our wonderful board. If you can find something else to put your energy into, then it helps with the breakup!  I will always support my team, but I'm just not going to let it screw my weekends up and become a grumpy old git.

Many people on here will know someone that has lost someone close recently, or maybe someone you care for is living with an illness/disability.  Then things can get put in perspective, it is just a game with 22 people kicking a ball around, or falling over and rolling around as if you've been shot!  

Spot on. 

[LCFCJohn]

3 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

no one’s reading that ffs 

I did, very good post by @ALC Fox actually. As is the point he makes, it’s not negativity for the sake of it, we as fans know something good when we see it. But we are being served up shit after shit and are expected by the ownership to not say anything because of what happened 19 years ago essentially.

[SemperEadem]

6 hours ago, lfu said:

Meanwhile on the lcfc reddit:

The power of what around 50 people is vastly over egged by the fanbase.

[purpleronnie]

57 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

It’s frightening that people like this are allowed behind the wheel of a car.

Its the sort of brainwashing thats taken place all around the english football leagues.

[CosbehFox]

22 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

The power of what around 50 people is vastly over egged by the fanbase.

At best a collection of 200 people managed to relegate a football club or was it the 18000 or so most Saturdays what did nothing 

[Gamble92]

The types who blame fans for what's happened with our club scare me. They possess all those manipulative, gaslighting traits that make you stay well away from a person. 

[Raj]

Our fan base claps a team of players who get us relegated.

At most clubs the players would be scared to come out.

 

 

We need more toxicity(If thats a word- @StanSP Is it?

 

 

[Winstonthedog]

18 hours ago, HankMarvin said:

Look at any club forum that has suffered 3 relegations in 4 seasons and see if it’s toxic.

 

Very true .... the fans haven't got the club relegated .... board  level ... decisions / bad decisions / appalling decisions..... management merry go round.... average / poor players on over inflated wages ... non existent leadership both on and off the pitch ... no passion or pride in playing for the shirt .... acceptance of failure  ...... has put the club in the position it is in 

Edited 21 hours ago by Winstonthedog
Spelling

[ealingfox]

1 hour ago, SemperEadem said:

The power of what around 50 people is vastly over egged by the fanbase.

 

10 times as many people clapping and cheering them off after 4-0 defeats

[purpleronnie]

2 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

10 times as many people clapping and cheering them off after 4-0 defeats

But apparantly thats ok.

[SK3Blue]

Starts at the top for me, they are 100% to blame. 
Fans who are daft enough to support it deserve all they get, asking for autographs and photos with Top and Rudkin, clapping players off on back to back relegations.

 

Yes the players are mostly dreadful but the owner allowed their attitude to be tolerated. Appointing weak managers along the way. 
 

There will still be people duped by these clowns next season, it’s like brand loyalty to King Power for some.  ‘See you down the KP’ they cry, well the owner is laughing his balls off at them. 

Edited 21 hours ago by SK3Blue

[ceebeefox]

Fans can be “the 12th man” and make a difference to an underdog , a team battling against the odds, with a manager and owners who are liked. Sadly we were none of these things and 100,000 passionate blue shirted fanatics couldn’t have turned us round.

But , like all fans, we are fickle and, like England the other night goals change matches and thoughts, and if Brussels tippy tappy plays through 1st division teams and we score a few early on , particularly if some of our youth are major parts of it, Martin, McArron and maybe even Winks will be the best thing since sliced bread. ( not Top or Rudkin though ay ) , cos that’s football and fans are the same countrywide.

[SB87_LCFC]

Frustrations have got to a point for some fans, forums are set up to say how you feel about individuals or the club as a whole, but in my view we have a select few that are narrow minded and seem to have forgetten some of the more pivotal  things that have happened within the club under this ownership and need to remember they support Leicester City, not King Power or John Rudkin. Top has to win back the fans for the past two years, I think he knows this now from the fan reaction of late and the constant issues. I dont believe KP selling will be for the best for us at this stage. 

 

For some of us, we have witnessed this club nearly going bust before Mandaric got us out the sh** and yes, we have seen us drop into League One before, but we have worked our way back out of it, with a good infastructure and the right people in the right places - something we seriously lack now. Like any business, you go through fits and spurts where things are good and things are not so good, its heightend more in this instance because of the fan base expecting a change of direction following the more recent successes of playing more regularly in European competitions. We are entitled to that, but there are so many issues away from the football side that hamper us.

 

I think there is an extent of that Top acknowledged this with moving to reshape the inner workings of the club by appointing McCarron, however I do feel he hasnt got the support in the business aspects the way his dad did with Susan Whelan. Like her or not, she was very highly thought of by alot of people at Leicester, without her, I believe we wouldnt have been able to get transfer fees like we did for Maguire, Mahrez and Fofana without her business acumen. Vichai brought her in for a reason, he knew what he was doing. I also feel Top needs to be more present, coming in every so often isnt helping, he needs to be more hands on, if people aren't doing their job - get rid! 

 

Like any football club, season upon season, you have to evolve, I for one, feel we havent evolved in the right way away from the playing staff (but this wont be left without saying something). We have lost key people in the football club in the past decade for various reason and replaced them with either mediocrity or not at all, the buck stops with the board in this instance - Replacing Steve Walsh with Martyn Glover is an example, the same person (Walsh) I would argue should have been moved into the DOF role after the title win in 2016 instead of losing him to Everton. 

 

We are now on our 10th Manager in 10 years, in that time we have won the FA Cup, Community Shield, made a European semi-final and won the Championship again, but all with stuff going on in the background which has been of detriment to what happens on the pitch. Agents working deals where sub-par players are on high wages, people interferring with the management of the football team and being forced into taking heavy bank loans from Australia due to the main source of income for the owners not making what it should during covid and losing control of it. 

 

I think some fans forget we existed before 2015/16 too, that we were something of a yo-yo club, everyones favourite pub team, full of players who didnt make the cut elsewhere and became cult heroes playing here (much like the PL title winning side), who made a few cup finals and picked up the odd good result away at some of the bigger boys. There is a selection of supporters who believe we should be a Champions League Club, thats where everyone wants to see their team, of course, but we have to be realistic, we are Leicester City, we are not a London Club, we are not in the North of the country, so the appeal to foreign players is not there in the way it would be for the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, etc - we have to accept we recruit within our means, go back to the blueprint of buying and flipping for a good profit. I dont understand why we deviated from that in the first place! The signings of the likes of Daka and Soumare and paying them such high wages for doing little or nothing at all. I do feel having Seagrave will be a future recruitment tool, the facilities will speak for themselves. 

 

Ultimately the buck has to stop with the board, they oversee and know everything, they control the ins, the outs and everything in between. The players unfortunately bare the brunt because they are the 11/16 who are on the pitch week in and week out, but who they are and why they are here stem back to us being poorly ran from the top (no pun intended).

 

The players themselves just simply havent been good enough for the past two years, recruitment has stunk the place out, minus Fatawu money invested in players has been crap(although he hasnt really shown his ability in the past season), some of the better players we have had have been on loan (Jordan James/Buonannote) or come here as a stepping stone (El Khannous) or infact come via the academy. As many have said a reset is needed, we have to build from within the academy i feel, bring in maybe 6-7 experienced players and utilise the academy. We have spent all this money on top of the range facilities and coaches, we need to start reaping the rewards. 

 

If we end up where season upon season for the next 2-3 years we see academy lads come through and move on for profit, in order for us to get back to where we were, so be it - its the way it is now. It could be Monga and Nelson this year, perhaps Page and Aluko the year after, but it's how we spend the money after that which will ultimately see us head in the right direction.

 

Personally, As I was with Cifuentes last season, I will remain on the fence about Martin, he has a reputation, but he also has a tough task of a major reset here with this group of players which clearly has toxicity in it. It doesnt mean I wont support my club, I just wont expect an immediate turn around. 

 

A philospohy many Leicester fans stick to - Keep The Faith. 

 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by SB87_LCFC