Racism at Doncaster?

[MooseBreath]

You roundhead bastard.

It's just fairly obvious, or so I thought. In a modern society, you can't go around racially abusing people. I'm sure nobody on here would be stupid enough to condone abusing the disabled either; it's as much a question of basic human decency as it is education and, if we're honest, we aren't exactly lacking in anti-racist education in this country.

If we really are bombarded with people crying 'racist' at every given opportunity, then surely people have no excuse to think that calling somebody a black bastard, a Paki or a terrorist is acceptable?

Paki and terrorist carry much clearer racist connotations. It's perfectly acceptable describe a black person as being black but you wouldn't go around describing people as pakis or terrorists. So when someone says "you black bastard" you have to assume a lot more racist intention. That assumption is subjective and for me in the context of a football fan dishing out abuse to opposing players, the racial element is quite small, he was insulting him first and foremost because he was an opposing player. It's not as if he was saying the same thing to our own black players or to black fans.

Of course he shouldn't have said it. I'm not condoning it at all. I just don't think making a big deal out of these very minor racial incidents helps anybody. A bit of common sense should apply.

[Strokes]

Agree with Bilo on this...in all the years ive been city ive NEVER heard a disabled fan get shite.

In fact im sure most fans have a big respect for them for attending...jesus sometimes its hard for the most fittest of fans to attend that shower of shite sometimes!!!

As far as all this ginger fat bald shite...its getting abit silly if you think someone shouting "you black ****ing paki terrorist bastard fcuk off to your own country" is on par with "you fat ginger tw@t"

Our jobber takes "you fat bastard" at most home games and so do a select few away fans...on the whole they take it with the "JEST" it is given in....thats the point...most of that shit is given with a cheeky smile.....you dont say paki bastard or black bastard with a cheeky smile!

In all seriousness, they are all just words. Why give power to the people using them by getting upset, its exactly what they want and cherish. Ignore them and remove them from your lives, then they might disappear.

[Bilo]

Paki and terrorist carry much clearer racist connotations. It's perfectly acceptable describe a black person as being black but you wouldn't go around describing people as pakis or terrorists. So when someone says "you black bastard" you have to assume a lot more racist intention. That assumption is subjective and for me in the context of a football fan dishing out abuse to opposing players, the racial element is quite small, he was insulting him first and foremost because he was an opposing player. It's not as if he was saying the same thing to our own black players or to black fans.

Of course he shouldn't have said it. I'm not condoning it at all. I just don't think making a big deal out of these very minor racial incidents helps anybody. A bit of common sense should apply.

 

Why bring up his race at all then?

 

If the ire shown was because he was playing for a team that was beating us, the ethnicity of the player should have been irrelevant. 

 

Calling somebody a 'black bastard' shows that race is being used against them, otherwise they'd just be called a bastard. It's as if the person is saying, 'not only are you a bastard, but you're black as well, which is even worse.' In other words, their ethnicity is part of the insult where it should be irrelevant.

 

I admit I swear profusely at football matches, far more than I do in day to day life, but it;s never popped into my head to call even the likes of El-Hadji Diouf (a truly hateful individual) a black cvnt. To me, the man would be a cvnt if he was white, black, Arab, Jewish or Chinese. The ethnicity should always be irrelevant.

[ADK]

I know plenty of racists, none of whom would be dumb enough to shout out a racial slur in public. Most people who do that are just doing it because of how taboo it is.

 

Why is it more offensive to call someone a black bastard than a ginger bastard? Logically both are unnecessary, neither a player's skin tone or hair colour are important. Neither are personal choices either. You can't justify one and not the other.

[James.]

Why is it more offensive to call someone a black bastard than a ginger bastard?

 

Genuinely baffling that people don't understand the difference.

[Samilktray]

I know plenty of racists, none of whom would be dumb enough to shout out a racial slur in public. Most people who do that are just doing it because of how taboo it is.

 

Why is it more offensive to call someone a black bastard than a ginger bastard? Logically both are unnecessary, neither a player's skin tone or hair colour are important. Neither are personal choices either. You can't justify one and not the other.

Its very unfortunate that you had to be born ginger but its not quite the same thing.

[The Year Of The Fox]

I remember I was once told on here that I shouldn't call my ginger mate ginge becuse it offends him

This despite him using it himself etc

[DennisNedry]

Its very unfortunate that you had to be born ginger but its not quite the same thing.

 

So that comment is supposed to be funny?

I suppose 'it's unfortunate that you had to be born black' is offensive?

[Bilo]

I remember I was once told on here that I shouldn't call my ginger mate ginge becuse it offends him

This despite him using it himself etc

 

Ridiculous really.

 

If people really think that taking the piss out of gingers is the same as racial abuse, I can't help them.

[ADK]

It would have been nice if someone could have made a proper argument as to why one is acceptable and one isn't.

[Callabinho]

I know plenty of racists, none of whom would be dumb enough to shout out a racial slur in public. Most people who do that are just doing it because of how taboo it is.

Why is it more offensive to call someone a black bastard than a ginger bastard? Logically both are unnecessary, neither a player's skin tone or hair colour are important. Neither are personal choices either. You can't justify one and not the other.

Are you some kind of disabled? Racism is real discrimination, taking the piss out of someone for being ginger is playground politics and is completely different!

I got it whilst I was at school you take it on the chin as banter because that's what it is.

Racism is a different kettle of fish any one who has these outdated view needs to put down their copy of the "daily mail" and pick up a history book. In regards to your "racist mates" they are dumb... Otherwise they wouldn't be racists would they.......

[Guesty]

Are you some kind of disabled? Racism is real discrimination, taking the piss out of someone for being ginger is playground politics and is completely different!

I got it whilst I was at school you take it on the chin as banter because that's what it is.

Racism is a different kettle of fish any one who has these outdated view needs to put down their copy of the "daily mail" and pick up a history book. In regards to your "racist mates" they are dumb... Otherwise they wouldn't be racists would they.......

 

Your post loses it's credibility when it starts of with: 'Are you some kind of disabled?'

 

You're making a point about discrimination and then starting your post with a word which is used by people to discriminate against people with special needs and the disabled.

[yorkie1999]

Are you some kind of disabled? Racism is real discrimination, taking the piss out of someone for being ginger is playground politics and is completely different!

I got it whilst I was at school you take it on the chin as banter because that's what it is.

Racism is a different kettle of fish any one who has these outdated view needs to put down their copy of the "daily mail" and pick up a history book. In regards to your "racist mates" they are dumb... Otherwise they wouldn't be racists would they.......

Not being funny mate, but do you know what calling someone a disabled actually refers to.

[GingerrrFox]

Some of the stuff in here is ridiculous. Discrimination is discrimination no matter what way you try and dress it up. You can't get your arse in a twist about calling someone a black **** if you are then gonna call someone a disabled etc. Basically people need to be a lot less sensitive, I doubt that bloke is an absolute racist but as for someone smacking him sometimes you have to learn when things are not acceptable and he probably won't do it again in the future. 

[cambridgefox]

I remember I was once told on here that I shouldn't call my ginger mate ginge becuse it offends him

This despite him using it himself etc

one of my mates works on the roads and this Pakistani guy joined the gang.now this now mate of his introduced himself on the first day and said" just call me shoe bomber"my mate couldn't believe he said that and felt uncomfortable understandably .One bloke had his collar felt for shouting it across the street until the guy stepped in.what I'm trying to say is this guy called himself this,but to 99.9% of the population this is racism?Should this guy have not understood how this might look to others before giving himself a nickname that is obviously offensive to most and really offensive to Asians.most people would just call him by his proper name I would have thought.Slightly different to yours I know.

[Captain...]

I know plenty of racists, none of whom would be dumb enough to shout out a racial slur in public. Most people who do that are just doing it because of how taboo it is.

 

Why is it more offensive to call someone a black bastard than a ginger bastard? Logically both are unnecessary, neither a player's skin tone or hair colour are important. Neither are personal choices either. You can't justify one and not the other.

 

Yes you can, people don't genuinely believe ginger people are inferior, (this is ignoring the already made argument about the years of slavery and indiscriminate killing) people still today think that black people are inferior. 

 

Now we have made a lot of progress but we are still not there yet, we are still not yet at the point where black has no other connotations and is solely an adjective that describes skin colour, but until it stops having racist connotations using terms like black cvnt will be considered racist, even if the person that used it isn't a racist.

 

The difference with ginger hair, or lanky is that it has no other negative meaning attached to it, it is just an observation, they are just adjectives.

[Raj]

Genuinely baffling that people don't understand the difference.

think this is the most worrying aspect of all this!!!

[Callabinho]

Alright maybe disabled was the wrong description, but to say Racism and making fun of someone for having Ginger hair is similar discrimination is totally, totally stupid. Bilo got it in one, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot....or is calling someone that worse than racism?

[MooseBreath]

we are still not yet at the point where black has no other connotations and is solely an adjective that describes skin colour

Says who? Who decides this? I'm quite happy to not see any racist connotations in the use of the word black. If we all agree, then it's problem solved no?

Seems to me that racist connotations of use of the word black is a relatively recent thing. Somebody somewhere (probably a white middle class liberal who lives in a predominantly white area and can probably count the number of times they've had a conversation with a black person on one hand) one day just decided that this was going to be classed as racism. Why don't we just reverse that decision?

[MarshallForEngland]

Alright maybe disabled was the wrong description, but to say Racism and making fun of someone for having Ginger hair is similar discrimination is totally, totally stupid. Bilo got it in one, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot....or is calling someone that worse than racism?

What do you mean "worse than racism"? If "racism" refers to a range of behaviour going from petty name-calling all the way to segregation and slavery then your question is pointless and unanswerable. Asserting that "anyone who thinks otherwise" (presumably you mean anybody who disagrees with you) is an "idiot" doesn't add any weight to your argument. On top of that, by making any pejorative use of the word black a race issue you're perpetuating the idea that there is such a thing as a black race in the first place, which is arguably more offensive and ignorant than the words of some div shouting obscenities from the stands.

People like you who say that there is something inherently more offensive about those sorts of comments are an impediment to equality. It's condescending to assume that black people are so hypersensitive and downtrodden that they need everybody else to sanctimoniously take offence on their behalf at any mildly offensive or tasteless comment.

[Out Foxed]

think this is the most worrying aspect of all this!!!

i agree. people still don't get it. thankfully this thread has pointed out the undercover racists.

[GingerrrFox]

For the record people who are saying it's far worse to be called a black **** than a ginger ****, you lose all right to your "Oh I'm offended by discrimination card". You are using the adjective as a derogatory statement, so the meaning of the word is the same you have just replaced one word with another. You meant to be derogatory by calling someone a black **** and you also meant to be derogatory by calling someone a ginger ****. The meaning is the same, you are stating that you don't wish to be ginger and you don't wish to be black.

 

Oh and also in Italy, ginger's were sent to the mountains and were seen as lowly back in history so should I feel offended that you are clearly using my hair colour as a discriminatory tool? Oh also during the Spanish inquisition ginger people were burnt to death because it was believed then that they stole the fire of hell and brought it to earth. Can I feel even more offended?

 

Or should we all grow up a little bit and be a lot less sensitive because you can get offended about anything these days?

[Bettsj2]

Arguing about what is offensive and the different levels and history behind one form of discrimination compared to another is a load of bollocks. If someone is offended by something someone says, what was said was offensive.

I've got a mate with ginger hair and i've seen him kick off loads of times when people take the piss out of him. Also have black and asian friends as well as being half cast myself and have got into loads of scrapes in the past over it.

People often say, 'you shouldnt be so sensitive', 'sticks and stones' 'rise above it' etc etc. But why should I? Why should anyone? To me, there isnt a person on this earth that doesnt know that calling someone a black bastard could end up with getting a smack in the mouth.

If you cant control yourself to the extent that you just blurt out any kind of shit like that you shouldnt leave your house as your time is over.

Society today has no place for you.

[MarshallForEngland]

Arguing about what is offensive and the different levels and history behind one form of discrimination compared to another is a load of bollocks. If someone is offended by something someone says, what was said was offensive.

I've got a mate with ginger hair and i've seen him kick off loads of times when people take the piss out of him. Also have black and asian friends as well as being half cast myself and have got into loads of scrapes in the past over it.

People often say, 'you shouldnt be so sensitive', 'sticks and stones' 'rise above it' etc etc. But why should I? Why should anyone? To me, there isnt a person on this earth that doesnt know that calling someone a black bastard could end up with getting a smack in the mouth.

If you cant control yourself to the extent that you just blurt out any kind of shit like that you shouldnt leave your house as your time is over.

Society today has no place for you.

And you've appointed yourself as the arbiter of that decision have you? Don't claim to speak on behalf of "society".

I am interested in your opening logic because I am actually offended by what you've said in this post; your condoning of violence for tasteless jibes offends me. Does that make what you've said "offensive"? If it does, do you still feel the need to lend any credence to the concept of offensiveness at all? If it doesn't, are you willing to adapt your definition of offensiveness accordingly?

Needless to say, I don't care about being offended. When somebody is wrong, it is by the free exchange of ideas that they are demonstrated to be wrong. What good is bullying them into silence going to do?

 

Your argument that began "there isn't a person on this earth..." is appalling. The same argument can be and often is used by genuinely hateful people in countries where homosexuality is illegal, for example, who might say "Well everybody knows if you're outwardly gay here you'll get a smack in the mouth". While the man in this scenario clearly does not have the burden of being part of a heavily oppressed and maligned minority as gay people do, it should at least make it obvious why you can't use the probability of violence occurring as an argument against him saying what he said. On that logic, there are plenty of unspeakable atrocities that occur all over the world that are justified simply because the victim knew what they were bringing upon themselves.

[Trumpet]

For the record people who are saying it's far worse to be called a black **** than a ginger ****, you lose all right to your "Oh I'm offended by discrimination card". You are using the adjective as a derogatory statement, so the meaning of the word is the same you have just replaced one word with another. You meant to be derogatory by calling someone a black **** and you also meant to be derogatory by calling someone a ginger ****. The meaning is the same, you are stating that you don't wish to be ginger and you don't wish to be black.

 

Oh and also in Italy, ginger's were sent to the mountains and were seen as lowly back in history so should I feel offended that you are clearly using my hair colour as a discriminatory tool? Oh also during the Spanish inquisition ginger people were burnt to death because it was believed then that they stole the fire of hell and brought it to earth. Can I feel even more offended?

 

Or should we all grow up a little bit and be a lot less sensitive because you can get offended about anything these days?

 

And in which century did these events happen? 

 

My point being, say in 500 hundred years time and racism is completely extinct, will it still be a sensitive subject as it is today? No. Of course not.

 

Any kind of discrimination is concerning, but as a whole, in modern society I reckon racism is top of the discrimination list - not the colour of a persons hair.