Nick Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 5 minutes ago, Moksky said: Walsh wanted him here, player wanted to come. We didnt pay the extra. What else is he supposed to say in his press conference. Perhaps a snide dig at Burnley. So - we have to pay extra or the asking price - which is what we have done here. Previously we have offered what we thought was a good / fair price not wanting to be ripped off but now we have woken up and realised we don't have the draw sadly of a club like Everton despite winning the league and having a good CL campaign. And you called the club staff idiots for doing so then harp on about us not spending money...
Long Eaton Fox Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 54 minutes ago, notnow john said: Only if he's suffering from labyrinthitis. I nearly fell for that one.
TheUltimateWinner Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 I personally think 12M for a club captain of a champions league club isn't bad value at all. 29 isn't a bad age as well, if he was a pacey striker there might be a few eyebrows, but as a DM he's still got 3-4 effective years in him.
Moksky Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 12 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: So - we have to pay extra or the asking price - which is what we have done here. Previously we have offered what we thought was a good / fair price not wanting to be ripped off but now we have woken up and realised we don't have the draw sadly of a club like Everton despite winning the league and having a good CL campaign. And you called the club staff idiots for doing so then harp on about us not spending money... Your missing the point. Being ripped off is selling Kante for £30m. Being small minded for not paying £20m for Keane last year and other missed opportunities. If you honestly think we bought wisely last summer and defend whats going then its your perogative. As I said our outlook should be to compete with every club financially outside the top 5/6 clubs - no danger. If you dont think thats the case, fair enough. I do. I do call them idiots, theyve wasted money, and repeatedly missed targets who values have risen. We haven't spent money wisely on proven quality.
Babylon Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 11 minutes ago, Marshall Cockney Fox said: Exactly. How is it that anyone can see bad in this signing. Okay he's not Messi, but he clearly has something about him to be Captaining Seville. Very positive signing - or did folks prefer Clucas? He captained them in 12 games this season, he's mostly a sub just to be clear.
Wizerud Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 Guy sounds like class but it's hard to get excited about someone who it doesn't seem to even have the capability of starting week in week out. Hopefully I'll eat my words when he becomes an insta-legend this season. Can he start and play two or three 90 minute games in a row?
matty98 Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 3 minutes ago, Moksky said: Being small minded for not paying £20m for Keane last year and other missed opportunities. Keane wasn't worth anything near £20 million, how is it small minded not being willing to pay over double what a player was worth? As soon as you show you're willing to pay well over the odds for 1 player other clubs expect you to do the same for their players.
Jakemoore Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 I don't see why people think we are signing a substitute. Just because he's a sub for Sevilla doesn't mean he will for us. Yes we beat Sevilla but don't fool yourself, they are better than us. We were class on the night and it was enough but overall a top 4 Spanish side would be head and shoulders above most of the Premier League. He sounds like a great player to have in the squad but I can't see why we would sign him if the intention was for him to be a sub. Andy King must be getting more and more nervous by the day..
Nick Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 2 minutes ago, Moksky said: Your missing the point. Being ripped off is seling Kante for £30m. Being small minded for not paying £20m for Keane last year and other missed opportunities. If you honestly think we bought wisely last summer and defend whats going then its your perogative. As I said our outlook should be to compete with every club financially outside the top 5/6 clubs - no danger. If you dont think thats the case, fair enough. I do. I do call them idiots, theyve wasted money, and repeatedly missed targets who values have risen. We haven't spent money on proven quality. Fvck me - I'm missing the point? Difference is - I've read your posts and responded to them - God knows whose posts you've been reading prior to replying to me... So, one last time... Our window last summer was appalling. It was appalling because we would not pay over inflated prices for players. We had won the league but did not want to be held to ransom - the result was that our business was terrible despite us winning the League and having CL football. This window we have learnt that lesson and so we have paid a little over the odds for a player we want - good stuff. All I have said is that to get proven quality we will have to pay more than the market value as players won't choose us over clubs like Everton and West Ham sadly. All I was trying to point out is that you called the club staff idiots for paying over the odds for this player when its what they know they have to do to secure his signature.
Moksky Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 Just now, matty98 said: Keane wasn't worth anything near £20 million, how is it small minded not being willing to pay over double what a player was worth? As soon as you show you're willing to pay well over the odds for 1 player other clubs expect you to do the same for their players. £10m is your valuation, was Pogba worth his fee? Try looking at his age
matty98 Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 Just now, Moksky said: £10m is your valuation, was Pogba worth his fee? Try looking at his age Obviously he's worth a bit more than that now, but at the time yes I think he was worth £10 million at most. Pogba isn't remotely comparable, he has more to offer than just being a player, his value to the brand is massive.
Marshall Cockney Fox Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 16 minutes ago, Babylon said: He captained them in 12 games this season, he's mostly a sub just to be clear. Maybe true, but I see that as no discredit given the other players in the squad. Musa barely plays for us, but we all know he's awesome -errrrrr!!!
hornyhollthefox123 Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 3 minutes ago, matty98 said: Obviously he's worth a bit more than that now, but at the time yes I think he was worth £10 million at most. Pogba isn't remotely comparable, he has more to offer than just being a player, his value to the brand is massive. Completely get both sides to the argument to be fair, but i just about side with Moksky on this. Our recruitment team and DOF's jobs are to assess player potential (not just current ability), and sadly they didn't do that well last year.. I agree that most of us honestly felt £20million was too much at the time for his ability there and then but we have to look at age, potential and many other factors better than we have been doing.
Thracian Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 1 hour ago, Ric Flair said: People keep saying he could be another Inler, but what they fail to consider is Inler was partly a failure here because Kante and Drinkwater and the team as a whole were so relentless and we won the league. Had we finished 12th in 15-16 then Inler may well have been called upon more and he may have settled in and done ok. It's all conjecture but Iborra comes with the sorts of attributes that could fit in. We need to strip down our central midfield though. King/Mendy/James/Amartey 2 of those need moving on. We also need a creative player in either the number 10 role or out wide. If we lose Mahrez and don't get in someone to unlock teams then we'll be on a level with West Brom for turgid football. At least they have players who can deliver set pieces for their brutes, we're a disgrace. I dont see us playing Drinkwater, Ndidi and Iborra as a 3 either and if we did, we'd badly need our full backs to push on and be able to attack. Simpson is muck at this. We we might be in the stages of transition, we need new options but I worry we'll fail to do it properly. As someone who generally supports your views i find it hard to understand your belief in Inler. Every time i watched him he seemed much more suited to warm-weather football than the pace and pressure of Premiership games. He needed more time on the ball than Diane Abbott might need on a maths paper and his indiscreet/inaccurate longer-range passing so nearly cost us goals on several occasions. Also Inler never suggested he might score or make the goals that Iborra promises. We so badly need someone who's genuinely creative and Iborra might be well turn out a positive for various reasons. I understand concerns about passing accuracy but incisive defence-splitting passes aren't anything like as easy as retention passes - nor ever will be. What matters is how many he and we can make count.
Moksky Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 1 minute ago, Swan Lesta said: Fvck me - I'm missing the point? Difference is - I've read your posts and responded to them - God knows whose posts you've been reading prior to replying to me... So, one last time... Our window last summer was appalling. It was appalling because we would not pay over inflated prices for players. We had won the league but did not want to be held to ransom - the result was that our business was terrible despite us winning the League and having CL football. This window we have learnt that lesson and so we have paid a little over the odds for a player we want - good stuff. All I have said is that to get proven quality we will have to pay more than the market value as players won't choose us over clubs like Everton and West Ham sadly. All I was trying to point out is that you called the club staff idiots for paying over the odds for this player when its what they know they have to do to secure his signature. Track back and read what youve posted on mine. I call some member of staff idiots (those involved in transfers and player identification) for idiotic transfer decisions, on Kante fees, and what we have bought in, when we didnt pay for proven quality. Simple. We have just signed our 7th CM, now I know Mendy wants out, did we really need him? I dont kow who else City are looking to ship out by the end of the window, but another CM for £12m. A player we want obviously because we bid th highest. What about others, Ieancho, Keane, Gibson, Sigurdsson.......................The market value is created by demand, and the deal is secured by good negotiators. When you know the TV revenue had gone up, we had won the league, what do you expect, clubs to keep the prices the same? Some naiveity. Im talking of £2-3m missing out on targets. Look at Pogbas fee, and some of the others last summer, let alone some of the fees for players being mentioned this summer.
Melbourne Fuchs Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 I'm currently re-watching the win against Sevilla. So far I would say Iborra's had the least touches of all the Sevilla players but is yet to misplace a pass. Winning a few headers and directing his teammates, obvious why he's seen as a leader. He gave away the free-kick that led to Morgan's goal. Will update more.
Jobyfox Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 I think the question to ask is: is he better than what we've got? After Drinkwater and Ndidi we've got James (uncertain future after injury), King (probably reached his threshold), Amartey (not even sure he's really a midfielder) and Mendy (poor first season and expressed a desire to go. He'd be hard pressed not to improve our squad. We might yet need another CM, but this sounds like a good start to me.
Steve Earle Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 53 minutes ago, Gerard said: I think you give the people in charge of such things at our club far too much credit. Don't take my word for it. Read Jonathan Northcroft's book if you haven't already...
st albans fox Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 2 minutes ago, Melbourne Fuchs said: I'm currently re-watching the win against Sevilla. So far I would say Iborra's had the least touches of all the Sevilla players but is yet to misplace a pass. Winning a few headers and directing his teammates, obvious why he's seen as a leader. He gave away the free-kick that led to Morgan's goal. Will update more. im getting nervous - hope we can nick a second ...............
Moksky Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 9 minutes ago, matty98 said: Obviously he's worth a bit more than that now, but at the time yes I think he was worth £10 million at most. Pogba isn't remotely comparable, he has more to offer than just being a player, his value to the brand is massive. £10m , we got £12m for Schlupp in Jan. Ok Michel Keane has now become and England International and just signed for Everton for a deal up to £30m. Every man and his dog was screaming for him, he wanted to come. I rest my case on this one.
Nick Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 3 hours ago, Moksky said: Sevilla resigned Banega for about €9m from Inter, hence why they let Iborra go , we just agreed to paying over the odds, he was being touted for much less . Idiots are our club You mean like this post on page 17 where this started and I made the point that if they wanted him they would have to pay 12 as Swansea bid 10.5... so we err paid the extra having learnt our lessons from last year? FFS.
Moksky Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 2 minutes ago, Jobyfox said: I think the question to ask is: is he better than what we've got? After Drinkwater and Ndidi we've got James (uncertain future after injury), King (probably reached his threshold), Amartey (not even sure he's really a midfielder) and Mendy (poor first season and expressed a desire to go. He'd be hard pressed not to improve our squad. We might yet need another CM, but this sounds like a good start to me. You forgot Matty James
Jobyfox Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 Just now, Moksky said: You forgot Matty James Err .... no I didn't....
Captain... Posted 4 July 2017 Posted 4 July 2017 Sounds like the deal is close, great to have a leader in the middle of the park, Drinky had been showing promise but his form last season has knocked his confidence, I'm not comparing him to Cambiasso, but if he can have anything like the calming and organisational influence of Esteban in the middle then it would be a massive boost to whoever he plays alongside. With this signing and the rumoured pursuit of more CBs, is 352 looking more likely?
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