Blanchflower78 Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 Whilst never having a wonderful pedigree of developing youth in general, more recent years has seen many opportunities slipped or wasted by us. Think Michael Keane, Harry Kane, Jesse Lingaard... to name a few and whilst Nick Powell never lived up to his potential there is a feeling that Lawrence may well kick on elsewhere. Chris Wood was another young guy who came with much promise and now being touted for 20m elsewhere. We've have others who have sat wasted and Chilwell who is the most likely to succeed in this field is very much a 50/50. Would you trust Leicester City with your developing teenage prodigy or to develop your current emerging star seeking more game time? Why are others more comfortable in this area - Everton, Liverpool, Southampton etc... are we now too acustomed to a style and personnel we simply can't or darent change?
TiffToff88 Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 7 minutes ago, F1_AN said: What happened to Barmby? Jack Barmby? He sits on the bench every week for Portland Timbers in the MLS
davieG Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 6 hours ago, Blanchflower78 said: Michael Keane, Harry Kane, Jesse Lingaard Those plsyers weren't with us long enough to be developed we were just giving them 1st team experience which was for the benefit of their own club more than us and probably allowed those clubs to introduce them into their 1st teams sooner. This is why I don't believe loans between PL clubs should be allowed anyway. As for our own academy well on the face of it seemingly not that successful.
Aus Fox Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 6 hours ago, Blanchflower78 said: Whilst never having a wonderful pedigree of developing youth in general, more recent years has seen many opportunities slipped or wasted by us. Think Michael Keane, Harry Kane, Jesse Lingaard... to name a few and whilst Nick Powell never lived up to his potential there is a feeling that Lawrence may well kick on elsewhere. Chris Wood was another young guy who came with much promise and now being touted for 20m elsewhere. We've have others who have sat wasted and Chilwell who is the most likely to succeed in this field is very much a 50/50. Would you trust Leicester City with your developing teenage prodigy or to develop your current emerging star seeking more game time? Why are others more comfortable in this area - Everton, Liverpool, Southampton etc... are we now too acustomed to a style and personnel we simply can't or darent change? Tom Lawrence and Chris Wood unproven outside the Championship. Woods feee is more to do with the inflated prices these days, did very well for us at that level. Longest is overrated, Keane did well for us at a young age and has made steady year on year improvement since he left. Kane is our only failure due to not being played in his best position.
lcfc sheff Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 In my eyes it shows our scouting has been top notch, yes these players didn't work out for us (besides Keane) but they went mostly to the top. Also with chris wood do we not have a sell on fee?
Merging Cultures Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 7 hours ago, Blanchflower78 said: Chris Wood was another young guy who came with much promise and now being touted for 20m elsewhere. To be fair, 20m is the new 5m.
m4DD0gg Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 No not really, Heskey & Lineker are the only real standouts in the last 30 odd years which is pretty poor.
Foxy-Lady Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 1 hour ago, lcfc sheff said: In my eyes it shows our scouting has been top notch, yes these players didn't work out for us (besides Keane) but they went mostly to the top. Also with chris wood do we not have a sell on fee? "Top notch scouting"???? We have had 3 young players in past 10 seasons on loan to us (Keane, Kane, Lingard) who are now doing well in PL and were probably offered to us on the cheap so they could get experience in Div2 and you classify that as "Top Notch scouting"...?!? Not quite sure you and i share same definition of "Top Notch"...!
foxinsocks Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 A few season ago we have a top u21 team. But only chilwell made the transition to 1st team. We need to look at that issue. Our team is almost alll purchased. Our scouting of late seems to be poor. Ndidi the only sucess last year... thereby wasting £5 out of every £6. This needs looking at. The academy thing is run by football people... boys who do well are those who will take ibstruction and who have grip to persevere and ignore distractions. It is mad to select by just watching them play. See moneyball by m lewis where the oakland as coaches were failing.
dmayne7 Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 People saying Keane did well for us? Do they remember our form when he came into the team. Season fell apart. Not that he was solely to blame but he was just far too lightweight at the time. Served him very well as he's now a very good defender.
Ric Flair Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 Our academy is a farce, we've had the same dinosaurs running it for about the last decade and we've not improved at all. We got category a status but with all the money pumped in to it there's not been much tangible improvement. Rudkin still pulls a lot of strings with the puppets he employs in the academy and anybody who dares try and be a bit dynamic and different gets the boot (there's been a couple of coaches this has happened to) so until Rudkin moves on there'll be little change in culture or development of our young players, and amongst the first team there's not much of an interest either.
ealingfox Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 I feel like there isn't much good quality coaching at the club at all. Most of our first team players cannot be said to have markedly improved whilst at the club.
lgfualol Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 20 minutes ago, Ric Flair said: Our academy is a farce, we've had the same dinosaurs running it for about the last decade and we've not improved at all. We got category a status but with all the money pumped in to it there's not been much tangible improvement. Rudkin still pulls a lot of strings with the puppets he employs in the academy and anybody who dares try and be a bit dynamic and different gets the boot (there's been a couple of coaches this has happened to) so until Rudkin moves on there'll be little change in culture or development of our young players, and amongst the first team there's not much of an interest either. Losing the spanish bloke to Derby seemed a step backwards as well. He was probably the only coach that encouraged passes along the floor. Chilwell seemed to flourish with him.
Ric Flair Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 1 minute ago, lgfualol said: Losing the spanish bloke to Derby seemed a step backwards as well. He was probably the only coach that encouraged passes along the floor. Chilwell seemed to flourish with him. Yeah that's who got castigated for trying to develop a more progressive style of play, I also think Nicky Eaden had some resistance to anything modern as well, it's quite incredible.
Thracian Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 Seems we have increased status to attract reputedly top quality youngsters these past few years yet have shown no signs that we can make the best of either them or many of those we've had beforehand. When you consider the level of "throughput success" it's pretty damning and it's interesting to see where Ric consistently lays the blame. But I'm not sure Rudkin or "the dinasaurs" are the only factor. There's the question of getting past the threshold of the first team and that's down to successive managers. From the outside they don't seem to have had a lot to reject which is a massive concern in itself. But then, when a few people do break through I don't see the level of improvement I'd expect in them and have to ask why given that it surely can't all be down to a bad attitude and, indeed, I can't imagine "bad attitude" being much of a factor at all given that all the characters would be well known from time already served. Has Gray improved since he arrived from Birmingham? Not in my view. Chilwell strikes me as having an exemplary attitude and willingness to learn and knuckle down but have we really shown the necessary faith in him to build his confidence? I'm not convinced but more of that later. Schlupp came through, was relatively successful, but seemed to get both distracted and disillusioned. Whatever the truth of it he stopped improving. . No-one has really come through and either flourished or improved and even Kingy - massively successful though he's been - has evolved from being a good passer who posed a danger when he had a shooting chance, to a box-to-box utility man charged with keeping a game safe. I've lost all but passing interest in our youth set-up since the halcyon attacking days of Gradel, Kingy, Porter and co but I did watch a fairly lengthy video of Lawrence the other day which was posted on a Derby website. I know it's easy to be misguided by videos but the variety of goals and positive contributions conjured by the lad was a revelation. He looked so positive and so able to present danger from seemingly innocuous situations. I'd have loved to have him in any team of mine. He'd have represented 15-18 goals a season guaranteed, by way of shots and assists. Not to mention the attention he took which clearly left space around him. His strength was his sense of optimistic adventure and ability to see the unexpected passing angle which is a rarish gift. He didn't strike me as being blessed ith great pace but he did show a short but deceptive turn of pace which gave him the unlikely yard he needed to cause his damage. The guy looked a godsend and far more consistently dangerous than I've ever seen Gray look. As I say, maybe the squeezing of so many magic moments into such a short time painted a flattering picture but Gray couldn't have filled the same video space in all his time since arriving here so I wondered - are our fringe youngsters really so far off the standard and, if not, why the hell don't we see the best of them through to fulfillment? Chilwell's the big case in point. It's not so long ago he had nine-tenths of an excellent game against what is a truly excellent Tottenham team but marred the moment with one costly mistake. And so it's generally been the story with him...lots of good but always one or two things letting him down each match. And yet, on reflection, Chilwell'sonce of the most involved players we've got and his errors didn't really add up to as many as most others in the various games he played. They were just focused on more readily. Mahrez makes more errors in every half-hour than Chilwell but so often saves his day with a moment of magic for all that he may have been at fault at the other end for the simple fact that he didn't get involved when he should have done. I remember Albrighton conceding a penalty in the Champions League and then marvelling at the fact that he'd covered so much space at full pace to try to thwart the danger presented - only to be the victim of a bad decision. Albrighton made his mistake because he took responsibility. But Mahrez will help to concede a goal because he sees the runner and leaves him to someone else as you can all see if you look. Bottom line is that Chilwell only needs to additional experience and the feeling of belonging to our team for him to be judged on what he offers overall which is often a lot both in attack and defence. Furthermore he's one of the few players we have who's as comfortable on the ball as Kingy and, really, we need a whole team like that because if the whole team can keep the ball there's a lot less chance of losing it.
cc_star Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 10 hours ago, Blanchflower78 said: Whilst never having a wonderful pedigree of developing youth in general, more recent years has seen many opportunities slipped or wasted by us. Think Michael Keane, Harry Kane, Jesse Lingaard... to name a few and whilst Nick Powell never lived up to his potential there is a feeling that Lawrence may well kick on elsewhere. Chris Wood was another young guy who came with much promise and now being touted for 20m elsewhere. We've have others who have sat wasted and Chilwell who is the most likely to succeed in this field is very much a 50/50. Would you trust Leicester City with your developing teenage prodigy or to develop your current emerging star seeking more game time? Why are others more comfortable in this area - Everton, Liverpool, Southampton etc... are we now too acustomed to a style and personnel we simply can't or darent change? Why Michael Keane? Fergie wouldn't allow Utd youngsters to go on loan to same club twice & he wasn't for sale at the time... When he was for sale we didn't need him Linegaard is overrated, Powell a huge problem... And as for Lawrence kicking on elsewhere? He may do he may not, as it stands he's not developed well enough to play for us as top half Prem hopefuls & he seemed to find his level in the Championship last season. Wood too, he hadn't progressed as fast as we as a club progressed & has done well in the Championship Keane aside no one has gone on to bigger & better things and even in Keane he's aiming for 7th this season, somewhere we'll also hopefully be there or thereabouts Chilwell, Moore & Barnes are our youngsters, Chilwell is doing very well... Moore & Barnes are out on loan gathering much needed experience No we don't have the conveyor belt that Man Utd had West Ham had and Southampton do, but we do make serious signings for the academy like Thomas from Coventry so it will be interesting to see how the recent crop develop, or whether it will be the crop behind them that breakthrough better
lcfc sheff Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 2 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said: "Top notch scouting"???? We have had 3 young players in past 10 seasons on loan to us (Keane, Kane, Lingard) who are now doing well in PL and were probably offered to us on the cheap so they could get experience in Div2 and you classify that as "Top Notch scouting"...?!? Not quite sure you and i share same definition of "Top Notch"...! We wouldn't take on a player if we didn't know what he'd bring to the club, it's the 21st century for Christ sake. Think about it.
ajthefox Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 2 hours ago, ealingfox said: I feel like there isn't much good quality coaching at the club at all. Most of our first team players cannot be said to have markedly improved whilst at the club. This has got to be one of the most stupid things I've ever read. Have you forgotten that we won the PREMIER LEAGUE with Schmeichel, Morgan, Mahrez, Drinkwater and Vardy who all played a significant number of championship games and were often heavily criticised even then? King has been with us since league 1. Not to mention Ulloa, Simpson, Albrighton were all part of a team that escaped relegation and a season later won the league. There are players who haven't improved and I'm not suggesting it's all coaching because it's obviously not but c'mon, look at what you're saying and then where we were 3/4 years ago.
Foxxed Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 It could be better and it does frustrate me somewhat but if Gray, Chilwell and Barnes end up Premier League quality players there won't be too much to complain about. It probably pains a few to say it but if Schlupp gets regular football with Palace we'll have developed and sold a Premier League quality player and given him a premier league winning medal too.
ealingfox Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 1 hour ago, ajthefox said: This has got to be one of the most stupid things I've ever read. Have you forgotten that we won the PREMIER LEAGUE with Schmeichel, Morgan, Mahrez, Drinkwater and Vardy who all played a significant number of championship games and were often heavily criticised even then? King has been with us since league 1. Not to mention Ulloa, Simpson, Albrighton were all part of a team that escaped relegation and a season later won the league. There are players who haven't improved and I'm not suggesting it's all coaching because it's obviously not but c'mon, look at what you're saying and then where we were 3/4 years ago. It doesn't necessarily mean they have improved individually as footballers though. Vardy I'll give you, he has improved with us. Schmeichel, all-round game has debatably improved. A lot of it is about the team you're in though. Look at Schmeichel the season we first came up - his limitations were ruthlessly exposed, in no small part by Morgan's own limitations, which as we saw on friday are still there. I'm not sure the evidence is overwhelming that they've been individually coached to become better footballers. The team that they were in has changed and achieved something yes. But that's not the same and isn't the point I was making. Ulloa and Simpson are no better as footballers than the day we bought them. Ulloa has regressed to be honest.
Babylon Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 5 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said: "Top notch scouting"???? We have had 3 young players in past 10 seasons on loan to us (Keane, Kane, Lingard) who are now doing well in PL and were probably offered to us on the cheap so they could get experience in Div2 and you classify that as "Top Notch scouting"...?!? Not quite sure you and i share same definition of "Top Notch"...! Spotting young talent early and them going on to have good careers is the definition of good scouting isn't it. WE sought these players out, they weren't offered.
Merging Cultures Posted 18 August 2017 Posted 18 August 2017 At the moment we'd probably injure any youth we got in.
urban.spaceman Posted 19 August 2017 Posted 19 August 2017 We developed Andy King who has since gone on to win England's top three leagues and has reached the QF of the Champions League. We also developed Tom Hopper, Adam Smith and James Pearson so swings and roundabouts really.
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