Adrien Silva - Terms Agreed

[Dukla Leicester]

17 minutes ago, Sublime_Coatsworth said:

Agreed. Unless Leicester can prove they actually did send the info prior to 23:00 (which doesn't sound the case) then there's no way FIFA is going to make an exception - and thereby set a precedent.

As i understand it lcfc are saying  they uploaded the info to fifa's TMS 'transfer matching system' before the deadline but the info was not received by the fa until 14 seconds after 1am. They've used fifa's own system, which if you go on the tms website sounds like they dont have to, it seems like they could have faxed it to the fa themselves and if that was late lcfc would only have themselves to blame. But they used tms so maybe thats where the appeal will be aimed at.

[HankMarvin]

[eaststand68]

http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Award_4785__FINAL__with_signature_for_publication.pdf     we may have to pay some form of settlement for arbitration Real Madrid example of hearing not related

[eaststand68]

http://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/_layouts/15/osssearchresults.aspx?u=http%3A%2F%2Fjurisprudence.tas-cas.org&k=TMS FIFA   if anyone is bored here's all the past decisions on the CAS database, I believe we have 21 days to appeal!!

[Monsell1976]

I know I'm clutching at straws, but surely common sense will prevail here.

If it was 14 seconds as being reported, surely thats in the realms of internet error/ lag/ delay or whatever you call it.

Just think it would be shite on the player, to prevent a move/ playing whichever is the case, for the sake of 14 seconds.

We were cutting it fine, but that happens on deadline day, if it was a minute or two late, I could understand FIFA's stance, but ffs seconds, could damage a players career, as it would be a little awkward to go back to sporting, and expect things to be the same.

Like I say, I hope common sense prevails.

[BigMicky]

2 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

What is? 

 

 Buying the players required to improve the starting 11?

Having potentially 8 centre midfielders is not a good business model.

[Albert]

1 hour ago, Sublime_Coatsworth said:

Agreed. Unless Leicester can prove they actually did send the info prior to 23:00 (which doesn't sound the case) then there's no way FIFA is going to make an exception - and thereby set a precedent.

The documents were sent before the deadline our end. The fact that FIFA have rejected it as it arrived 14 seconds late is an absolute joke. People can bang on all they like about "rules are rules & deadlines are deadlines" but this isn't a game show where your against a clock! There's millions of pounds worth of business and a players career to factor into the equation! U could understand if it was a couple of hours late etc but 14 SECONDS?!?! It's laughable! 

I've no doubt the owners will be doing everything possible to influence the decision so hopefully those in power will see sense and sign it off. 

[vanity]

The Mercury writes that "Even though Leicester are adamant  they completed the paperwork before the deadline, it is the time that the FA received it that counts."

 

Does anyone know what part of the rules they get this from? That the time the FA receives the application is what FIFA goes by? Because if you read Annexe 3 to the rules, which lays out the registration procedure, it says that "All applications to register a professional must be submitted by the new club to the new association during one of the registration periods established by that association." (See Annexe 3a, rule 3.1, p. 63). Also: "[a]ll submissions must be entered in TMS by the deadline in the time zone of the association concerned," which also implies it is the time of submission, not receipt by the FA. (https://resources.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/02/70/95/52/regulationsonthestatusandtransferofplayersjune2016_e_neutral.pdf).

 

There is a delay between any submission and receipt. We have no instantaneous communication, even electronically. We have all sent emails that are not immediately received, that are delayed for some reason for 10 seconds, 30 seconds, even a minute or more. That would likely be my first argument, subject to testing the TMS system.

 

In the alternative, I would look to argue that the uploading of the documents is a process that occurs after submission. So if, due to the size of what is being sent, there is a delay after submission, when the user is waiting while the system hangs while uploading a large sized set of files, I might examine the system to see whether it could reasonably argued that "submission" for the purposes of the FIFA rule occurs when the upload has been initiated.  If a large set of documents can delay things 15 seconds, then that might hold water. 

 

Of course, I'd also be looking for some sort of catch-all where the FIFA Appeals Board has some sort of equitable powers that allow discretion in such situations, best interest of the player, no competitive advantage, etc. My understanding is the DeGea rejection should have been sent to appeal, per FIFA, as Man U. would've been successful. I'd be interested to learn why, and see whether we can leverage something there.

 

SO we may still have some colorable arguments to make.

[ZeGuy]

12 minutes ago, Albert said:

The documents were sent before the deadline our end. The fact that FIFA have rejected it as it arrived 14 seconds late is an absolute joke. People can bang on all they like about "rules are rules & deadlines are deadlines" but this isn't a game show where your against a clock! There's millions of pounds worth of business and a players career to factor into the equation! U could understand if it was a couple of hours late etc but 14 SECONDS?!?! It's laughable! 

I've no doubt the owners will be doing everything possible to influence the decision so hopefully those in power will see sense and sign it off. 

Amen to that. Besides we obviously losing a capital asset, the blow for the player himself is terrible. Four months without playing are quite hard to endure. 

[murphy]

 14 seconds late results in a ban of (approx) 10,000,000 seconds.

 

That's justice FIFA style

[s11nny]

2 minutes ago, vanity said:

The Mercury writes that "Even though Leicester are adamant  they completed the paperwork before the deadline, it is the time that the FA received it that counts."

 

Does anyone know what part of the rules they get this from? That the time the FA receives the application is what FIFA goes by? Because if you read Annexe 3 to the rules, which lays out the registration procedure, it says that "All applications to register a professional must be submitted by the new club to the new association during one of the registration periods established by that association." (See Annexe 3a, rule 3.1, p. 63). Also: "[a]ll submissions must be entered in TMS by the deadline in the time zone of the association concerned," which also implies it is the time of submission, not receipt by the FA. (https://resources.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/02/70/95/52/regulationsonthestatusandtransferofplayersjune2016_e_neutral.pdf).

 

There is a delay between any submission and receipt. We have no instantaneous communication, even electronically. We have all sent emails that are not immediately received, that are delayed for some reason for 10 seconds, 30 seconds, even a minute or more. That would likely be my first argument, subject to testing the TMS system.

 

In the alternative, I would look to argue that the uploading of the documents is a process that occurs after submission. So if, due to the size of what is being sent, there is a delay after submission, when the user is waiting while the system hangs while uploading a large sized set of files, I might examine the system to see whether it could reasonably argued that "submission" for the purposes of the FIFA rule occurs when the upload has been initiated.  If a large set of documents can delay things 15 seconds, then that might hold water. 

 

Of course, I'd also be looking for some sort of catch-all where the FIFA Appeals Board has some sort of equitable powers that allow discretion in such situations, best interest of the player, no competitive advantage, etc. My understanding is the DeGea rejection should have been sent to appeal, per FIFA, as Man U. would've been successful. I'd be interested to learn why, and see whether we can leverage something there.

 

SO we may still have some colorable arguments to make.

How can lcfc proove that they submitted it on time though if the only proof (as far as the news reports and my assumptions go) is the timestamp when TMS received the documents. It seems as though that timestamp is the only thing that evidences everything was done in time. So although the FA were happy with it being 14 seconds late FIFA have thrown the case out on the same basis. I'm sure if there was a way they could see lcfc submitted it on time then they would re-consider but there clearly isn't and now it's on lcfc to prove they have. I doubt there is any proof though because rudders is most likely chatting sh*t 

[fox_favourite]

I think we can debate this until we're blue in the face, but it's not going to make any difference. I can't see FIFA changing their mind and doing a U-turn on this as they want to be seeing to "follow the rules" ( ha, that's ironic). If they were going to accept 14 seconds late they would have done it by now in the initial verdict. 

 

It's frustrating, but the club are not completely blameless in this, they know the rules. It's the player I feel sorry for. If he has signed for us but can't play, he'll be heavily frustrated especially with world cup round the corner. If we decide (if it can be done) pull out of the deal then I think we can kiss this idea goodbye as he wouldn't want to try for a third time to sign for us. 

 

All in all it's a right mess and it doesn't look good on Leicester City FC being a professionally ran club, it shouldn't have happened. But it has and now the we/the club need to deal with with it. They might decide to appeal, but I can't see that being successful. 

 

Poor Silva, all he wanted to do is play football in the premier league with Leicester city. 

[Livid]

4 hours ago, s11nny said:

How can lcfc proove that they submitted it on time though if the only proof (as far as the news reports and my assumptions go) is the timestamp when TMS received the documents. It seems as though that timestamp is the only thing that evidences everything was done in time. So although the FA were happy with it being 14 seconds late FIFA have thrown the case out on the same basis. I'm sure if there was a way they could see lcfc submitted it on time then they would re-consider but there clearly isn't and now it's on lcfc to prove they have. I doubt there is any proof though because rudders is most likely chatting sh*t 

Any half decent IT department should be able to troll through the server logs to find the actual time someone hit the critical enter key. 

 

Of course that would rely on us having a half decent IT department (have you tried using the website on anything but a desktop) and it actually providing evidence in our favour.

[fox_favourite]

1 hour ago, Livid said:

Any half decent IT department should be able to troll through the server logs to find the actual time someone hit the critical enter key. 

 

Of course that would rely on us having a half decent IT department (have you tried using the website on anything but a desktop) and it actually providing evidence in our favour.

I nearly applied for a job in the IT department a couple of months ago. Glad I didn't, didn't want to get the blame for this. Haha 

[nwl fox]

7 hours ago, chapero82 said:

It's not going down to 4th or 5th though it's 3rd at the moment  

 

look ok how it went at the end of last season when was short there, 

 

we got battered 

So does that mean Iborra is 5th choice then?

[simFox]

18 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

I nearly applied for a job in the IT department a couple of months ago. Glad I didn't, didn't want to get the blame for this. Haha 

Do you look like rudkin?

[GaelicFox]

12 hours ago, BigMicky said:

Wow you are intelligent. You are  complaining at the quality of signings, he doesn't pick them.

He is the DOF it's his job to approve them ... it's his fault that our transfer policy is a disaster since Walsh left  the buck stops with him ! 

[GaelicFox]

12 hours ago, tony222 said:

Good point, totally agree, it's a complete mess.

 

We are just starting our 4th year in a row in the top flight after crusing the championship and we have only won the premier league once and failed to make the semi finals of the champions league yet again.

 

People need to be held responsible for this. Absolute joke. 

And since Walsh left all that has disappeared really , we have reaped the rewards of amazing Walsh  signings and right now we are stinking the place out with rudkins signings 

 

it's a mess out transfer policy too much gambling and investing for my liking 

 

 

[Babylon]

9 hours ago, Suzie the Fox said:

And in that instance, what happened with the player.... ?

That's why they cancelled the appeal, they hadn't been paying the player and he quit the club. He ended up signing on a free for someone else.

 

It went to arbitration as Nice refused to pay Sporting the fee... they were made to pay it in the end. So they paid the money and lost the player.... won't happen in our case.

[KFS]

He should pull a Ched Evans so we could sign him on a free 

[foxinsocks]

Is it an email?

To the fa?

If so the time of arrival at the fa is arbitrary !

What is the process at the fa ...does someobe have to sit and enter stuff onto tms?

 

We should immediately look at the time on our email log and get an indepaccountant to verify the accuracy of our system clock

 

It is still not clear if our responsibitity is to get the doc to the fa in time. .. or...  thst we have to ensure the fa put it onto tms in time.

 

If the former it coukd be said that we should allow a time of email transit 

 

If the later we can say the fa are fuchwits and it was fifas fault for involving them in their rules

 

Anyone know what our responsibities were?

 

 

[foxinsocks]

Is it an email?

To the fa?

If so the time of arrival at the fa is arbitrary !

What is the process at the fa ...does someobe have to sit and enter stuff onto tms?

 

We should immediately look at the time on our email log and get an indepaccountant to verify the accuracy of our system clock

 

It is still not clear if our responsibitity is to get the doc to the fa in time. .. or...  thst we have to ensure the fa put it onto tms in time.

 

If the former it coukd be said that we should allow a time of email transit 

 

If the later we can say the fa are fuchwits and it was fifas fault for involving them in their rules

 

Anyone know what our responsibities were?

 

 

[foxinsocks]

Is it an email?

To the fa?

If so the time of arrival at the fa is arbitrary !

What is the process at the fa ...does someobe have to sit and enter stuff onto tms?

 

We should immediately look at the time on our email log and get an indepaccountant to verify the accuracy of our system clock

 

It is still not clear if our responsibitity is to get the doc to the fa in time. .. or...  thst we have to ensure the fa put it onto tms in time.

 

If the former it coukd be said that we should allow a time of email transit 

 

If the later we can say the fa are fuchwits and it was fifas fault for involving them in their rules

 

Anyone know what our responsibities were?

 

 

[weller54]

Open letter to FIFA should sort this! 

[shade]

dear fifa,

 

you're a corrupt gang of beta cucks,

 

sincerely,

 

shakey.