What's in the news?

[Max Wall]

4 minutes ago, Buce said:

A list of the Top 100 women footballers. 

 

I don’t mean to be unkind but isn’t that a bit like a list of the100 tallest Hobbits?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2018/dec/04/the-100-best-female-footballers-in-the-world-2018

What number did Robbie Savage end up?

Edited 7 December 2018 by Max Wall

[SouthStandUpperTier]

8 minutes ago, Buce said:

A list of the Top 100 women footballers. 

 

I don’t mean to be unkind but isn’t that a bit like a list of the100 tallest Hobbits?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2018/dec/04/the-100-best-female-footballers-in-the-world-2018

Just don't ask them to twerk Buce.

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Complete fantasy, if he thinks the EU is going to enter into any sort of customs union with a British say in future trade deals then he isn't listening or paying attention to anything that is going on.

 

I still have no idea why he goes on things like workers rights, anti-racism and enviromental protections either except to throw a few platitudes to his voting base, these things are absolutely nothing to do with any negotiation with the EU and will be determined by the government of the country, not by any sort of international treaty.

No idea how he is still getting away with this to be honest, a small part of me wants a GE called and Labour to win so we can actually hold him to account on it all. If he was serious they would have actually produced a plan, but he won't as he knows it will be torn apart.

 

There is a whole system set up to allow the EEA countries to have a say over EU policy, so a "sort of say" over future trade deals isn't a hopeless cause. If he's hoping for a veto or equal decision-making, then he is indeed in fantasy land.

I imagine the EU would be open to a customs union with advance consultation with the UK. Given its size, the UK could also hope to exert a bit more influence than the EEA countries. The EU would dominate such decision-making, though.

 

I presume Corbyn goes on about workers' rights and environmental protection because he wants such things written into the agreement on future relations. I've not read that, but understand such rights are not guaranteed in that - though nothing is guaranteed as it's a non-binding declaration of intentions, not a legal doc - and pretty imprecise, by all accounts. Yes, assuming we leave the EU, such matters will be determined by the UK Govt. I'm sure that's his concern - that a Tory Govt will undermine or eliminate many of those rights. The Tories have previously opted out of EU social regulations and opposed the introduction of a minimum wage, so his concern is quite rational. As I understand it, EU legislation is currently being transferred wholesale into UK law under Henry VIII rules, but a UK Govt could repeal some of that any time, so tying us to EU social legislation makes sense.

 

Furthermore, slashing social rights and deregulating is the obvious way for a post-Brexit Tory Govt to proceed. This is the ideological preference of some Tories ("freeing business from red tape" - a.k.a. allowing it to shaft its workers so as to compete partly on cost). Anyone thinking that the UK can suddenly achieve a glorious surge in global trade purely through the previously fettered genius of British business is living even more of a fantasy than Corbyn. As times get hard post-Brexit and good trade deals are hard to come by, even those not ideologically committed to redistributing wealth from "lazy British workers" and "scroungers" (the British people) to big business/capital will have few alternatives but to compete as a deregulated, low-tax, low-spend, low-rights economy.

 

 

1 hour ago, Kopfkino said:

So he wants frictionless access to the single market but presumably without FoM and with a say. And then writes complete bollocks about Norway not having a say. So in his mind he wants to negotiate EEA but different and better than the EEA and he expects this to be acceptable for the EU and the EEA nations. And what has the Lisbon Treaty got to do with it. Absolutely delusional, genuinely worse than those pricks in the ERG.

 

Please make it all stop

 

Certainly, Norway having "no say" is bollocks - though I'm sure it doesn't have massive influence. The UK could expect to have a bit more influence, but would still have less say than now and would largely be a "rule taker" - but that's the case with any Soft Brexit scenario (Hard Brexit brings less "rule taking" but other disasters). That's partly why Remain is a better outcome than Soft Brexit.

 

"Frictionless access" would only be possible by staying in the SM & CU, which in turn would mean accepting FoM. If Labour's going to insist on proceeding with Brexit, that would be a better idea than Corbyn's current plan. Assuming the EU are not willing to compromise over FoM, a UK Govt could prepare national legislation/policy initiatives to address the real and perceived downsides of FoM.

 

I presume the Lisbon Treaty reference concerns the fact that the EU did make concessions to Ireland when it had a referendum that rejected it, though I'd guess he's partly mixing it up with earlier referendums in France and Holland.

 

Fair to say there's a lot of delusional thinking by most factions in this shitshow.

[Foxxed]

More rats are leaving the UKIP ship, I see.

 

Tommy Robinson'll start the UKIP Defence League soon enough.

[purpleronnie]

People might see it as irrelevant, people might say he's scoring political points (all politicians do this).  But the EU protects many workers rights and we have to adhere to them, we will still be protected but Brexit could man those laws being repealed or changed.

 

Remember John walker used EU law to stop UK law withholding pension rights to same sex couples...just one example of the EU providing protection when our own laws did not.

 

Lets not forget some conservative ministers who fought national minimum wage, agency workers’ rights and working time regulations.

 

I hope Mrs May lives up to her word that workers rights will remain the same but given her record on saying one thing and doing the other it's right to voice the concerns.

[Buce]

13 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

More rats are leaving the UKIP ship, I see.

 

Tommy Robinson'll start the UKIP Defence League soon enough.

 

That’s pretty much the idea, I think. UKIP is a ready-made political vehicle for them to take over. 

[bovril]

3 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

So he wants frictionless access to the single market but presumably without FoM and with a say. And then writes complete bollocks about Norway not having a say. So in his mind he wants to negotiate EEA but different and better than the EEA and he expects this to be acceptable for the EU and the EEA nations. And what has the Lisbon Treaty got to do with it. Absolutely delusional, genuinely worse than those pricks in the ERG.

 

Please make it all stop

This is true, unfortunately. He is either genuinely clueless, too obsessed with playing party politics, or running scared of his own voters. 

[Kopfkino]

58 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Certainly, Norway having "no say" is bollocks - though I'm sure it doesn't have massive influence. The UK could expect to have a bit more influence, but would still have less say than now and would largely be a "rule taker" - but that's the case with any Soft Brexit scenario (Hard Brexit brings less "rule taking" but other disasters). That's partly why Remain is a better outcome than Soft Brexit.

 

"Frictionless access" would only be possible by staying in the SM & CU, which in turn would mean accepting FoM. If Labour's going to insist on proceeding with Brexit, that would be a better idea than Corbyn's current plan. Assuming the EU are not willing to compromise over FoM, a UK Govt could prepare national legislation/policy initiatives to address the real and perceived downsides of FoM.

 

I presume the Lisbon Treaty reference concerns the fact that the EU did make concessions to Ireland when it had a referendum that rejected it, though I'd guess he's partly mixing it up with earlier referendums in France and Holland.

 

Fair to say there's a lot of delusional thinking by most factions in this shitshow.

 

It has a pretty big influence tbf. As much influence as any member state outside of the big 5 members and arguably on some things its as strong as Italy and Spain. The UK obviously wouldn't keep its current influence, and soured relations probably mean it would have proportionally less than it should have given its size. I don't agree that Norway is largely a rule taker, it has influence, it has a veto, it can fight anything that would harm it. It frustrates that the remain campaign spent so much energy discrediting Norway and many have continued to do so since. EEA (this is disputed) is subject to somewhere between 25% and 35% of EU rules, so automatically we're looking at "taking" only a third of rules. It has a veto, which whilst seldom used, means it can block rules and it is structured in a favourable way that means only losing access to the single market in that specific area rather than losing all access as Switzerland would or as might be built into an FTA. And it is able, and has been able to, fight for exemptions if it deems that rules will be harmful for it, maybe notably but not exclusively on seafood and the CFP. And of course that ignores the UK givng the EEA/EFTA more clout to renegotiate existing arrangements. 

 

And in all of this, there's this implicit assumption from many that other forms of Brexit means we won't be rule-taking. You only have to look at the FTAs with Canada, Japan, and Mexico to see that a)many rules are made at the international level and b)each of those has had to accept varying amounts of rules as part of the FTA. Australia and NZ are already looking to align to many EU rules to smooth the FTA process. That's because there are two regulatory superpowers; the EU and the US, although the latter probably less so because of state law. In fact, we see in international institutions, the US-China trade war, and even the Huawei stuff that there is a real battle for who will be setting standards over the next few decades with changing technology. Increasingly standards are set at an international level and the EU often leads on that (GDPR), we are going to be rule takers anyway - that's the modern world. 

 

I just find it sad that the leader of the opposition doesn't want to offer a genuine alternative, just a carrot cake to the ERG's fruit cake. I don't pretend Norway is ideal, probably would leave a lot of people unhappy (FoM being a problem) and would need negotiations to incorporate some of the customs code and ROO for NI which in turn would cause problems with EFTA. I'm still frustrated that May's deal wasn't better received (though I've yet to speak to anyone who can produce a coherent argument why they're against it), it's genuinely alright. Assuming it doesn't get through (I did genuinely think it would eventually), unless Norway becomes an option I'd hold my nose and vote to remain in another referendum even though I dread to think what it will do to our polity and despite the fact every time Macron speaks I get more delighted we voted to leave. Hell, I'd even consider a vote for Corbyn at a GE if he presented something viable.

[The Guvnor]

Hooray the Brexit discussion thread is back. 

[Kopfkino]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

 

 

You do wonder how you get the head up the politics department at Cambridge when you oppose anything that isn't one person one vote but can't see your own idea is just an extra vote for parents. 

[Foxxed]

Kent council are warning that a no deal could cost 1.5 million a day. They say that there would be queues of lories on the coast. A minister has said medicine could be flown into the UK.

 

It's made me think who would want this no deal scenario. I can think of two groups. 

 

If the newspapers splash queuing lorries, goods stranded and businesses ruined there's no way the Tories would remain in government. And in an election, Corbyn would almosy definitely get elected. To blow it, he'd need to hold a brick aloft and beat a duck to death live on morning TV while screaming that he wants to do that to us.

 

Not only would Corbyn like to see a no deal destroy the Tories, but the other European leaders would see it as a cautionary tale to tell. Every major European country have growing extreme rightwing groups who see Brexit as the promised land. A few months of Brexit no deal chaos would destroy all that. And when the EU comes in and offers a lifeline they'll be seen as heros.

 

May's deal makes us a country that follows EU rules but now without a say, but a no deal would destroy the Tories, if Kent's predictions are correct, give Labour the government and quell all the other little potential Brexits around Europe.

 

Or the extreme rightwing sentiment echoing around Europe swells in the UK, and the anger, resentment and frustration is channeled through a politician with his finger on the emotional pulse and another finger pointing at a group to blame.

[lifted*fox]

 

[theessexfox]

8 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

You do wonder how you get the head up the politics department at Cambridge when you oppose anything that isn't one person one vote but can't see your own idea is just an extra vote for parents. 

He's a remarkably good lecturer in the history of political thought.

[urban.spaceman]

I spent about 4 weeks in the hostel she was staying in, then a couple of nights in the hotel she was last seen at too. Poor girl. 

[Buce]

 

The hidden global network behind Tommy Robinson:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/07/tommy-robinson-global-support-brexit-march

 

The British far-right activist Tommy Robinson is receiving financial, political and moral support from a broad array of non-British groups and individuals, including US thinktanks, rightwing Australians and Russian trolls, a Guardian investigation has discovered.

Robinson, an anti-Islam campaigner who is leading a “Brexit betrayal” march in London on Sunday, has received funding from a US tech billionaire and a thinktank based in Philadelphia.

Two other US thinktanks, part-funded by some of the biggest names in rightwing funding, have published a succession of articles in support of Robinson, who has become a cause célèbre among the American far right since he was jailed in May for two months.

 

His imprisonment on contempt of court charges prompted a vigorous international Twitter campaign, with 2.2m tweets being posted using the hashtag #freetommy between May and October.

An analysis conducted for the Guardian by the London-based Institute for Strategic Dialogue found that more than 40% of the tweets came from the US, 30% from the UK and other significant volumes from Canada, the Netherlands and nine other countries.

A separate study of about 600 Twitter accounts, believed to be directly tied to the Russian government or closely aligned with its propaganda, found significant numbers had tweeted prolifically in Robinson’s defence.

On Facebook, Robinson has more than 1 million followers from at least a dozen countries outside the UK, including the US, Australia, Sweden and Norway.

Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, has been using Facebook donation tools designed for charities to raise funds for his activism for several months.

He says he has raised several hundred thousand pounds via online donations, some of which were solicited via the Facebook donate button. Robinson has said he plans to use the money to launch a European version of the rightwing conspiracy website Infowars, and to sue the British government over his prison treatment.

But the tool is meant for charities alone. When the Guardian alerted Facebook to this, the social media company switched off the function within hours.

 

The Guardian looked into Robinson’s global support after he was jailed for filming outside a rape trial involving defendants of mainly Pakistani heritage at Leeds crown court. He was released on 1 August after the court of appeal ordered that he should be retried. The attorney general is deciding whether to proceed with a retrial.

The investigation has established that:

• A Philadelphia-based thinktank, the Middle East Forum (MEF), acknowledges it has spent about $60,000 (£47,000) on Robinson’s legal fees and demonstrations staged in London earlier this year. A senior MEF executive has been closely involved in preparations for this weekend’s march, though the thinktank said she was there in a personal capacity.

• A US tech billionaire, Robert Shillman, financed a fellowship that helped pay for Robinson to be employed in 2017 by a rightwing Canadian media website, the Rebel Media, on a salary of about £5,000 a month.

• A small Australian rightwing group, Australian Liberty Alliance, says it has helped fund Robinson, but did not disclose how much.

• A New York City-based thinktank, the Gatestone Institute, has published a succession of articles supporting Robinson’s cause.

• The David Horowitz Freedom Center (DHFC), a California-based thinktank that describes itself as a “school for political warfare”, has published a series of pieces defending Robinson, and has lobbied for him to address US politicians.

Horowitz, the co-founder of the DHFC, told the Guardian in an email: “Tommy Robinson is a courageous Englishman who has risked his life to expose the rape epidemic of young girls conducted by Muslim gangs and covered up by your shameful government.”

 

MEF, Gatestone and the DHFC are well funded by influential rightwing donors, according to tax returns scrutinised by the Guardian. In 2014-16, the returns show they received a total of almost $5m from several millionaire donors.

MEF received $792,000 from a foundation led by Nina Rosenwald, the co-chair of American Securities Management, once dubbed “the sugar mama of anti-Muslim hate”.

The DHFC received $1,638,290 from five wealthy benefactors, one of whom is believed to be among the biggest-ever donors to the Republican party.

Gatestone has received more than $2m in donations, including $250,000 from the Mercer Family Foundation, which is funded by Donald Trump’s top donor, Robert Mercer, and run by the billionaire’s daughter Rebekah.

All three thinktanks have been repeatedly accused of stoking anti-Islam sentiment in the west and spreading false information about Muslim refugees in Europe. But all three have consistently denied being anti-Islam.

“Radical Islam is the problem and moderate Islam is the solution,” the MEF president, Daniel Pipes, said in an email. “MEF fights for the right to discuss Islam and related issues in free, robust, open and public debate.”

Pipes added that he believed Robinson had been prosecuted for his views and not his actions outside the courthouse.

He said: “In May 2018, in the course of five hours, he was arrested, tried, convicted, sentenced to 13 months’ prison, and jailed; that sounds more like a banana republic than the home of the Magna Carta.”

Rosenwald and the Gatestone Institute have strongly denied they are anti-Islam. In a 5,000-word article in May, the institute said “far from being anti-Muslim” it was “pro-Muslim” and that it did not want to see “Muslims deprived of freedom of speech, flogged or stoned to death for supposed adultery”.

A spokesman said: “Gatestone is a free speech platform and publishes hundreds of online articles a year expressing a varied range of views, including articles by Muslims, and does not endorse the comment of all its contributors.”

Robinson, Shillman and the Mercers did not respond to detailed requests for comment.

The support from prominent and well-financed groups undermines Robinson’s self-styled image of a far-right populist underdog whose anti-Islam agenda is being silenced by the British establishment.

Robinson was recently appointed an official adviser to Ukip, which is backing his pro-Brexit rally on Sunday. Ukip’s embrace of him has caused a rupture in the party and prompted two former leaders, Nigel Farage and Paul Nuttall, and hundreds of members to leave.

Announcing his resignation this week after 25 years with the party, Farage wrote in the Daily Telegraph: “The very idea of Tommy Robinson being at the centre of the Brexit debate is too awful to contemplate.”

Robinson founded the English Defence League, a far-right Islamophobic group, in 2009. It has since fractured and declined. He frequently complains of being smeared as a racist, insisting he does not care about skin colour and that his objection is to Islamist political ideology rather than people.

 

However, he has been filmed saying things like: “Somalis are backward barbarians”; British Muslims are “enemy combatants who want to kill you, maim you and destroy you”; and refugees are “raping their way through the country”.

The news of his imprisonment on 25 May generated a surge of pro-Robinson tweets. An analysis of 2.2m #freetommy tweets between May and October showed 42% came from the US, according to research by the Institute for Strategic Dialogue.

A second analysis, by the Alliance for Securing Democracy (ASD) thinktank, discovered social media backing from a cluster of 600 accounts it identified as being aligned with the Kremlin. Pro-Robinson tweets accounted for three of their top five most-used hashtags on 27 May, and most pointed users to articles on the rightwing websites InfoWars, Breitbart and Voice of Europe, according to the researchers.

“The clustered focus on the Tommy Robinson case in late May suggests that Russian-linked accounts saw his arrest as a clear opportunity to amplify political divisions both in the UK and abroad,” said Bret Schafer, a social media analyst at the US-based ASD.

Fiyaz Mughal, the founder of Tell Mama, which records anti-Muslim hate crimes, described the US and Russian support for Robinson as foreign interventionism. He said: “It should alarm anyone in this country who values the democratic principles on which our country are founded.”

[Dr The Singh]

6 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

The hidden global network behind Tommy Robinson:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/07/tommy-robinson-global-support-brexit-march

 

The British far-right activist Tommy Robinson is receiving financial, political and moral support from a broad array of non-British groups and individuals, including US thinktanks, rightwing Australians and Russian trolls, a Guardian investigation has discovered.

Robinson, an anti-Islam campaigner who is leading a “Brexit betrayal” march in London on Sunday, has received funding from a US tech billionaire and a thinktank based in Philadelphia.

Two other US thinktanks, part-funded by some of the biggest names in rightwing funding, have published a succession of articles in support of Robinson, who has become a cause célèbre among the American far right since he was jailed in May for two months.

 

His imprisonment on contempt of court charges prompted a vigorous international Twitter campaign, with 2.2m tweets being posted using the hashtag #freetommy between May and October.

An analysis conducted for the Guardian by the London-based Institute for Strategic Dialogue found that more than 40% of the tweets came from the US, 30% from the UK and other significant volumes from Canada, the Netherlands and nine other countries.

A separate study of about 600 Twitter accounts, believed to be directly tied to the Russian government or closely aligned with its propaganda, found significant numbers had tweeted prolifically in Robinson’s defence.

On Facebook, Robinson has more than 1 million followers from at least a dozen countries outside the UK, including the US, Australia, Sweden and Norway.

Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, has been using Facebook donation tools designed for charities to raise funds for his activism for several months.

He says he has raised several hundred thousand pounds via online donations, some of which were solicited via the Facebook donate button. Robinson has said he plans to use the money to launch a European version of the rightwing conspiracy website Infowars, and to sue the British government over his prison treatment.

But the tool is meant for charities alone. When the Guardian alerted Facebook to this, the social media company switched off the function within hours.

 

The Guardian looked into Robinson’s global support after he was jailed for filming outside a rape trial involving defendants of mainly Pakistani heritage at Leeds crown court. He was released on 1 August after the court of appeal ordered that he should be retried. The attorney general is deciding whether to proceed with a retrial.

The investigation has established that:

• A Philadelphia-based thinktank, the Middle East Forum (MEF), acknowledges it has spent about $60,000 (£47,000) on Robinson’s legal fees and demonstrations staged in London earlier this year. A senior MEF executive has been closely involved in preparations for this weekend’s march, though the thinktank said she was there in a personal capacity.

• A US tech billionaire, Robert Shillman, financed a fellowship that helped pay for Robinson to be employed in 2017 by a rightwing Canadian media website, the Rebel Media, on a salary of about £5,000 a month.

• A small Australian rightwing group, Australian Liberty Alliance, says it has helped fund Robinson, but did not disclose how much.

• A New York City-based thinktank, the Gatestone Institute, has published a succession of articles supporting Robinson’s cause.

• The David Horowitz Freedom Center (DHFC), a California-based thinktank that describes itself as a “school for political warfare”, has published a series of pieces defending Robinson, and has lobbied for him to address US politicians.

Horowitz, the co-founder of the DHFC, told the Guardian in an email: “Tommy Robinson is a courageous Englishman who has risked his life to expose the rape epidemic of young girls conducted by Muslim gangs and covered up by your shameful government.”

 

MEF, Gatestone and the DHFC are well funded by influential rightwing donors, according to tax returns scrutinised by the Guardian. In 2014-16, the returns show they received a total of almost $5m from several millionaire donors.

MEF received $792,000 from a foundation led by Nina Rosenwald, the co-chair of American Securities Management, once dubbed “the sugar mama of anti-Muslim hate”.

The DHFC received $1,638,290 from five wealthy benefactors, one of whom is believed to be among the biggest-ever donors to the Republican party.

Gatestone has received more than $2m in donations, including $250,000 from the Mercer Family Foundation, which is funded by Donald Trump’s top donor, Robert Mercer, and run by the billionaire’s daughter Rebekah.

All three thinktanks have been repeatedly accused of stoking anti-Islam sentiment in the west and spreading false information about Muslim refugees in Europe. But all three have consistently denied being anti-Islam.

“Radical Islam is the problem and moderate Islam is the solution,” the MEF president, Daniel Pipes, said in an email. “MEF fights for the right to discuss Islam and related issues in free, robust, open and public debate.”

Pipes added that he believed Robinson had been prosecuted for his views and not his actions outside the courthouse.

He said: “In May 2018, in the course of five hours, he was arrested, tried, convicted, sentenced to 13 months’ prison, and jailed; that sounds more like a banana republic than the home of the Magna Carta.”

Rosenwald and the Gatestone Institute have strongly denied they are anti-Islam. In a 5,000-word article in May, the institute said “far from being anti-Muslim” it was “pro-Muslim” and that it did not want to see “Muslims deprived of freedom of speech, flogged or stoned to death for supposed adultery”.

A spokesman said: “Gatestone is a free speech platform and publishes hundreds of online articles a year expressing a varied range of views, including articles by Muslims, and does not endorse the comment of all its contributors.”

Robinson, Shillman and the Mercers did not respond to detailed requests for comment.

The support from prominent and well-financed groups undermines Robinson’s self-styled image of a far-right populist underdog whose anti-Islam agenda is being silenced by the British establishment.

Robinson was recently appointed an official adviser to Ukip, which is backing his pro-Brexit rally on Sunday. Ukip’s embrace of him has caused a rupture in the party and prompted two former leaders, Nigel Farage and Paul Nuttall, and hundreds of members to leave.

Announcing his resignation this week after 25 years with the party, Farage wrote in the Daily Telegraph: “The very idea of Tommy Robinson being at the centre of the Brexit debate is too awful to contemplate.”

Robinson founded the English Defence League, a far-right Islamophobic group, in 2009. It has since fractured and declined. He frequently complains of being smeared as a racist, insisting he does not care about skin colour and that his objection is to Islamist political ideology rather than people.

 

However, he has been filmed saying things like: “Somalis are backward barbarians”; British Muslims are “enemy combatants who want to kill you, maim you and destroy you”; and refugees are “raping their way through the country”.

The news of his imprisonment on 25 May generated a surge of pro-Robinson tweets. An analysis of 2.2m #freetommy tweets between May and October showed 42% came from the US, according to research by the Institute for Strategic Dialogue.

A second analysis, by the Alliance for Securing Democracy (ASD) thinktank, discovered social media backing from a cluster of 600 accounts it identified as being aligned with the Kremlin. Pro-Robinson tweets accounted for three of their top five most-used hashtags on 27 May, and most pointed users to articles on the rightwing websites InfoWars, Breitbart and Voice of Europe, according to the researchers.

“The clustered focus on the Tommy Robinson case in late May suggests that Russian-linked accounts saw his arrest as a clear opportunity to amplify political divisions both in the UK and abroad,” said Bret Schafer, a social media analyst at the US-based ASD.

Fiyaz Mughal, the founder of Tell Mama, which records anti-Muslim hate crimes, described the US and Russian support for Robinson as foreign interventionism. He said: “It should alarm anyone in this country who values the democratic principles on which our country are founded.”

Wow, finally I have a method of becoming rich.  I could be the brown Tommy Robinson and my uniqueness would make me loads.

[Dr The Singh]

18 hours ago, Buce said:

 

That’s pretty much the idea, I think. UKIP is a ready-made political vehicle for them to take over. 

Perfectly legal for them to do, it won't last unless they can get a real leader with a wider acceptance.

[Dr The Singh]

20 hours ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Just don't ask them to twerk Buce.

He is more like to implement a hugging culture

[Wymsey]

A few Britons have sadly either disappeared or have been murdered whilst in Jamica in the last few weeks.

Edited 8 December 2018 by Wymeswold fox

[leicsmac]

5 hours ago, Buce said:

 

The hidden global network behind Tommy Robinson:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/07/tommy-robinson-global-support-brexit-march

 

 

TBH I'm not sure it's news that Tommy and other prominent "alt-right" (if that's indeed an organisation, huh?) figures in the US and now Europe are getting bankrolled by various parties in order to either maintain/bring back the old status quo or forment unrest in which conflict can follow, or one leading to the other.

[Max Wall]

10 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

A few Britons have sadly either disappeared or murdered whilst in Jamica in the last few weeks.

Murdered who?

[Wymsey]

8 minutes ago, Max Wall said:

Murdered who?

Now edited.

[Foxxed]

That Guardian exclusive didn't really say much.

 

If you thought Tommy Robinson was a angry nutjob sitting in his mum's basement I guess it's news.

 

But he's a angry nutjob funded by extremist US groups with a Russian troll farm backing him.

 

The amount of extremist right wing US money in UK politics is well documented. Steve Bannon is quite open about it. It's why Boris started mouthing off about minorities semi recently.

 

Far right UK politicians are basically like this currently:

 

 

[lifted*fox]

[Guest MattP]

Good explanation in the ST of what could happen when the deal is voted down on Tuesday (I still don't know how the chief whip/PM is allowing this to go through)