Puel In / Out Poll (12/01/19)

[STUHILL]

1 hour ago, oxford blue said:

Article in the Guardian below. I have highlighted his statement when appointed - it seems the only time he wants to counter attack is palying better teams who are constantly pressing. It would seem teams know how to play us at home. . 

 

 

Puel remains the favourite to be the next Premier League manager to leave his job, which may come as a surprise to those whose knowledge of Leicester begins and ends with their position in the table: eighth. The assumption that tends to follow is that any disgruntled Leicester supporters have ideas above their station, fuelled by that 5,000-1 triumph three years ago, and now expect to challenge for the title every season.

 

The truth is rather different and has more to do with what they are paying to watch. To put it bluntly – and many Southampton supporters will probably be nodding their heads when they get to the end of this sentence – the football at home has been dull under Puel on far too many occasions to remember.

As for the results, it is hard to sugarcoat statistics that show Puel’s record is worse than the man who was sacked to make way for him. Craig Shakespeare averaged 1.38 points per game, Leicester scored more goals than they conceded while he was in charge and they won as many games as they lost. Puel averages 1.35 points per game, Leicester have lost more matches than they have won under him and their goal difference is negative.

Bearing in mind that Shakespeare was told to clear his desk after eight months because the club felt “a change is necessary to keep the club moving forward – consistent with the long-term expectations of our supporters, board and owners”, it is little wonder Puel’s position continues to be the subject of so much scrutiny. Where, say his critics, is the progress?

An alternative take would be – and there are fans who remain firmly behind Puel – that the 54-year-old should be cut some slack. Those with a foot in the Frenchman’s camp say he deserves credit for giving youngsters a platform to thrive – Ben Chilwell in particular – that the loss of Riyad Mahrez to Manchester City last summer should not be overlooked, and that allowances ought to be made for the emotional fallout in the wake of the helicopter crash in October that claimed the lives of five people, including Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha, Leicester’s owner.

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The reality is that Leicester were unconvincing on the pitch before that tragedy. Indeed, Puel was straying into slightly awkward territory last week when he rounded on his critics and suggested that people had short memories when it comes to what the club has been through. “It was a fantastic feeling to move on and respect the memory of Vichai and his dream,” he said. “Now we have some things and words about finishing seventh or eighth, it is crazy. People forget quickly.”

The focus on the league position is a red herring – Puel did not lose his job at Southampton because they finished eighth; it was the style of football, the lack of goals – only 41 in 38 matches – and his failure to galvanise the fanbase and players that did for him. The similarities at Leicester are striking.

Leicester have scored only 13 goals at the King Power Stadium all season, they have lost three of their past four home matches, including back-to-back defeats against relegation strugglers Cardiff and Southampton, and were dumped out of the FA Cup by Newport County a fortnight ago. Puel during his Leicester City press conference on Thursday. Photograph: Plumb Images/Leicester City via Getty Images

Arguably as worrying as all the facts and figures is that even now, 15 months after his appointment, it is hard to discern any clear identity in the way that Leicester play under Puel. On the day he was presented as manager, Puel talked about how it was “difficult for Leicester to have been playing for three or four years with a counterattack and just this system. It’s important to have other answers … my work is to build the players up to have these options and solutions.” Yet if it was Puel’s intention to turn Leicester into more of a possession-based team at times, or at the very least make the players comfortable with an alternative approach, there is no evidence it has worked.

For Southampton’s visit last Saturday, Puel started with three defensive midfielders against a team in the relegation zone. Despite playing with an extra man for 45 minutes and enjoying 72% possession, Leicester struggled to create chances and resorted to pumping hopeful crosses into the area that played into the hands of Jannik Vestergaard and Jan Bednarek. Remarkably, those two Southampton defenders headed the ball clear as many times (14) as Jamie Vardy touched it in 90 minutes. Forget the superhero outfit that Leicester’s leading scorer wore to training on Thursday; a stepladder would have been more use against Southampton.

The way that match panned out was predictable in many respects. Leicester’s win ratio under Puel is as low as 29% (W9 D9 L13) when they have more of the ball than their opponents. It climbs to as high as 50% (W10 D3 L7) when they surrender possession, which is why facing Chelsea and Manchester City in the space of four days around Christmas suited them. That is not to take anything away from those results – hugely impressive 1-0 and 2-1 victories respectively – but more to illustrate how playing on the counterattack remains Leicester’s best hope of picking up points.

A game at Wolverhampton Wanderers on Saturday is a blessing for that reason and it would be no surprise if Leicester get a positive result. Yet even if that turns out to be the case, the debate about Puel’s future is unlikely to go away and it would be naive for anyone to think Leicester’s board have not been asking questions of their own. It feels as though it has got to the stage where a parting of the ways is inevitable in the summer at the latest, when the potential availability of Brendan Rodgers and Rafael Benítez alters the managerial landscape. Perhaps the bigger question is whether the bookies will be forced to pay out before then.

 

Got to be said, this article is spot on. Rare to see a journo do a thorough piece including stats but also get across the general feeling of most supporters. 

 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

8 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Got to be said, this article is spot on. Rare to see a journo do a thorough piece including stats but also get across the general feeling of most supporters. 

 

Thorough? He has raked through this forum and regurgitated a few blandishments. Its low resolution analysis at its finest

Edited 18 January 2019 by AlloverthefloorYesNdidi

[l444ry]

9 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Got to be said, this article is spot on. Rare to see a journo do a thorough piece including stats but also get across the general feeling of most supporters. 

 

Doubt the Puel Yellow Vests will let your comment go unchallenged.

 

[SecretPro]

3 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Thorough? He has raked through this forum and regurgitated a few blandishments. Its low resolution analysis at its finest

Not really, he's saying what the majority on this forum are saying and also backing it up with statistics and historical evidence. I think it's a well rounded article, and reading it I do feel like I'm straying into the Puel out camp. We would need to starting tanking people 3-0 with attacking football to change my mind again. 

Edited 18 January 2019 by SecretPro

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

1 minute ago, SecretPro said:

Not really, he's saying what the majority on this forum are saying and also backing it up with statistics and historical evidence. I think it's a well rounded article, and reading it I do feel like I'm straying into the Puel out camp. We would need to starting tanking people 3-0 with attacking football to change my mind again. 

That article in a nutshell

 

- Leicester are still best when they counter attack. Yes Puel has had to deal with losing Mahrez, but they were rubbish before the helicopter crash anyway

 

[STUHILL]

6 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Thorough? He has raked through this forum and regurgitated a few blandishments. Its low resolution analysis at its finest

He is getting across what the majority of Leicester fans feel and backing it up with some stats too. You may not like what he is writing but it rings very true for most of us. 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

3 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

He is getting across what the majority of Leicester fans feel and backing it up with some stats too. You may not like what he is writing but it rings very true for most of us. 

Personally think he fails to clarify some of his core statements and cherry picks data, but fair enough

[Col city fan]

This would be the ultimate irony

I so hope it happens just to see this forum implode..

[STUHILL]

1 minute ago, FilbertFrog said:

I will say this now we will be relegated by end of 20/21 season ! 

 

we are going to sink 

 

screen save this ! 

Can't see it personally. Think as long as we hold onto core group of players and add to them wisely, then we will be mid-table for next 2-3 seasons.

 

Tricky thing, will be getting the balance right with the new training ground/stadium expansion in terms of transfer budget. If Top/Rudkin can manage that OK, then think we will be fine and then we could start becoming a much better prospect for attracting players as well as being able to attract talented youngsters to develop. 

 

Be positive Froggie! We have a decent core group and an owner who has a huge passion for the club and it's future

[FilbertFrog]

Just now, STUHILL said:

Can't see it personally. Think as long as we hold onto core group of players and add to them wisely, then we will be mid-table for next 2-3 seasons.

 

Tricky thing, will be getting the balance right with the new training ground/stadium expansion in terms of transfer budget. If Top/Rudkin can manage that OK, then think we will be fine and then we could start becoming a much better prospect for attracting players as well as being able to attract talented youngsters to develop. 

 

Be positive Froggie! We have a decent core group and an owner who has a huge passion for the club and it's future

I’m drunk and depressed 

 

not looking forward to tomorrow 

[STUHILL]

1 minute ago, FilbertFrog said:

I’m drunk and depressed 

 

not looking forward to tomorrow 

Wolves were run ragged by Man City on Monday and we always seem to perform better when we play teams who have the ball more than us, as it forces us to play on the counter which many of our players are suited to. 

 

Think we are due a draw though so going for 1-1. Not so bad! 

[H.a.r.r.y]

On 12/01/2019 at 17:43, broughtonblue said:

Well as I got told off last week on here by the teachers and was banned for taking the P out of puel I'd better be careful what I say. So i thought it was a magnifique perfoormence with tactiqueees that were magnifique, 

i got a ban for mentioning blue smoke 

[Foxboy]

3 hours ago, STUHILL said:

Got to be said, this article is spot on. Rare to see a journo do a thorough piece including stats but also get across the general feeling of most supporters. 

 

Spot on except for the fact that his whole argument is based on puel not progressing our club when he has reduced our squads age, made us a more possession based team and has taken us from relegation to challenging for best of the rest.

 

He even tries to sneak in some statistics about Shakespeare as if we weren’t in the relegation zone in October under him.

Edited 19 January 2019 by Foxboy

[Ricey]

4 hours ago, Foxboy said:

Spot on except for the fact that his whole argument is based on puel not progressing our club when he has reduced our squads age, made us a more possession based team and has taken us from relegation to challenging for best of the rest.

 

He even tries to sneak in some statistics about Shakespeare as if we weren’t in the relegation zone in October under him.

He has made us more possession based, but he has made us worse at breaking teams down, not better, which was the sole purpose of making us more possession based in the first place. That’s not progress.

 

”Taken us from relegation...”. We were 13th when he took over. We finished 12th the season before and had that Vardy goal been correctly given onside on the final day we’d have been 8th.

 

Yes we were in the relegation zone under Shakespeare but it was only 8 games in and we had played 4 of the top 6 and, Bournemouth away aside, we’d not actually played too badly in my opinion.

[broughtonblue]

6 hours ago, H.a.r.r.y said:

i got a ban for mentioning blue smoke 

Funny isn't it ??

[CosbehFox]

3 hours ago, Ricey said:

Yes we were in the relegation zone under Shakespeare but it was only 8 games in and we had played 4 of the top 6 and, Bournemouth away aside, we’d not actually played too badly in my opinion.

 

West Brom home and Huddersfield away were awful. Watching us stick eleven behind the ball against a newly promoted side was frustrating as hell. Need a peno to get that at Hudds

[shade]

the top comment on the guardian article is pretty accurate to be fair...

 

“On the day he was presented as manager, Puel talked about how it was “difficult for Leicester to have been playing for three or four years with a counterattack and just this system. It’s important to have other answers … my work is to build the players up to have these options and solutions.””

This, in a nutshell, is why I believe in Puel.

We had been found out. Anyone who thinks the football is poor now would do well to go back and watch some of the stuff we played under Shakespeare because it was sub-Allardycean hoofball. We were comprehensively outplayed by many of the teams we faced and burgled a number of wins in his tenure (West Ham away and Sunderland at home in particular) before his luck eventually ran out. Even before Shakespeare came in the last couple of dozen games under Ranieri were horrendous.

Something had to change at the club. We needed to move past 2015/16 and that is what Puel is doing now. 

Personally I think re-vamping the playing style and identity of a club, many of whose supporters will forever be wedded to one glorious season and the rose-tinted memories that brings, is a project worth doing and one that will take a long time. I’m not sure it’s reasonable to expect him to have done this in an 18 month time frame which has included the death of the owner and the sale of the club’s only creative outlet - arguably the greatest player in its history.

Puel gets it. He gets that there’s a new, more sustainable identity that the club needs to strive for. He’s given chances to young players in a way that few other managers do and still has us in the top half of the table. Chilwell, Choudhury and now Barnes are all likely to be first team staples for the rest of the season and have all graduated from the academy in recent years. 

The only reasonable criticism of Puel is that the football is boring. And it is. It’s really boring. And I’m disappointed he hasn’t managed to get us attacking with a bit more invention. We’re too easy to play against at the King Power. Teams just defend deep and press Maddison the moment he gets it and we have no idea how to break them down.

But weighed up against the good things he’s doing - building a sustainable club for the future by blooding and trusting young players and transitioning us away from a style that threatened to have us relegated in 16/17 and 17/18 before Shakespeare got the bullet - it’s just not enough in my book to consider him to be a failure or worthy of considering sacking.

There might be other managers with similar ideas to Puel who are better at implementing them. If we sacked Puel and hired one of them it wouldn’t be the end of the world. But given we’re in no immediate danger of relegation, I think we owe it to Puel to try to reap some of the rewards for the grunt work he’s put in.

[Apollo]

23 minutes ago, shade said:

the top comment on the guardian article is pretty accurate to be fair...

 

“On the day he was presented as manager, Puel talked about how it was “difficult for Leicester to have been playing for three or four years with a counterattack and just this system. It’s important to have other answers … my work is to build the players up to have these options and solutions.””

This, in a nutshell, is why I believe in Puel.

We had been found out. Anyone who thinks the football is poor now would do well to go back and watch some of the stuff we played under Shakespeare because it was sub-Allardycean hoofball. We were comprehensively outplayed by many of the teams we faced and burgled a number of wins in his tenure (West Ham away and Sunderland at home in particular) before his luck eventually ran out. Even before Shakespeare came in the last couple of dozen games under Ranieri were horrendous.

Something had to change at the club. We needed to move past 2015/16 and that is what Puel is doing now. 

Personally I think re-vamping the playing style and identity of a club, many of whose supporters will forever be wedded to one glorious season and the rose-tinted memories that brings, is a project worth doing and one that will take a long time. I’m not sure it’s reasonable to expect him to have done this in an 18 month time frame which has included the death of the owner and the sale of the club’s only creative outlet - arguably the greatest player in its history.

Puel gets it. He gets that there’s a new, more sustainable identity that the club needs to strive for. He’s given chances to young players in a way that few other managers do and still has us in the top half of the table. Chilwell, Choudhury and now Barnes are all likely to be first team staples for the rest of the season and have all graduated from the academy in recent years. 

The only reasonable criticism of Puel is that the football is boring. And it is. It’s really boring. And I’m disappointed he hasn’t managed to get us attacking with a bit more invention. We’re too easy to play against at the King Power. Teams just defend deep and press Maddison the moment he gets it and we have no idea how to break them down.

But weighed up against the good things he’s doing - building a sustainable club for the future by blooding and trusting young players and transitioning us away from a style that threatened to have us relegated in 16/17 and 17/18 before Shakespeare got the bullet - it’s just not enough in my book to consider him to be a failure or worthy of considering sacking.

There might be other managers with similar ideas to Puel who are better at implementing them. If we sacked Puel and hired one of them it wouldn’t be the end of the world. But given we’re in no immediate danger of relegation, I think we owe it to Puel to try to reap some of the rewards for the grunt work he’s put in.

“Puel gets it”

absolute claptrap

[foxinsocks]

Most of us agree we need different modes of play. .. and the players to gives us these options.

I also belive we need better individual development plans for certain players (grey ndiddi mendy choudry diabate madison etc)

 

The problem with puel is that while he can be objective and see the issues,  he then 

- failed to solve the striker issue last summer prefering to gamble on nacho

- he sets up the wrong shape esp against poor sides

- he allows hoofed crosses in to a box with few lcfc strikers unabke to win the ball agaibst the likes of vestiguard

 

worst of all... while most of us could set out the issues,  very few of us have the leadership charisma and authority to take the squad, fans and owners on the journey... and neither has puel. 

 

Cards on table. ...wagner would make me very excited 

[Preston Fox]

Just to put some perspective on where we are-just seen the Facebook challenge thing for where your club was 10 years ago. We were in league one ladies and gentlemen! Things could be worse!

[Bezzanator89]

Apologies if this link has been put up elsewhere but this pretty much says it all. But to painfully summarise, we are the new Southampton.

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/18/claude-puel-leicester-premier-league

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

10 minutes ago, Bezzanator89 said:

Apologies if this link has been put up elsewhere but this pretty much says it all. But to painfully summarise, we are the new Southampton.

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/18/claude-puel-leicester-premier-league

Brilliant. We can look forward to a relegation battle under a new manager next season then

[mod hero]

2 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Brilliant. We can look forward to a relegation battle under a new manager next season then

Mate what is your deal? You’re like a dog with a bone.

 

You’ve been absolutely non stop in this thread with comments like this.

 

i go to every home game and it ruins my weekend most weeks (and into the week) and that feeling is on loop at the minute.

 

I go down for a beer before halftime and most of the time I don’t go back to my seat it’s that bad.

 

To say we will be in a relegation scrap if we get rid of Puel is absolutely none sense as well.

 

Turn it in for a bit will you.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

2 minutes ago, mod hero said:

Mate what is your deal? You’re like a dog with a bone.

 

You’ve been absolutely non stop in this thread with comments like this.

 

i go to every home game and it ruins my weekend most weeks (and into the week) and that feeling is on loop at the minute.

 

I go down for a beer before halftime and most of the time I don’t go back to my seat it’s that bad.

 

To say we will be in a relegation scrap if we get rid of Puel is absolutely none sense as well.

 

Turn it in for a bit will you.

So is it ok to say Puel Out every 5 minutes but not ok to defend him?

 

Thanks, good to know where the line is

[mod hero]

Just now, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

So is it ok to say Puel Out every 5 minutes but not ok to defend him?

 

Thanks, good to know where the line is

Defending him is saying we will be relegated if he goes?