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DerbyshireFox

Tielemans

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1 hour ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

 Much better at Chelsea, and given that BR says we have been running on empty since Xmas, the reasons for him coming off the boil seem pretty clear now. I think BR should have (with hindsight) rotated more after the second string performed so well in early January.

 

But a more general point is that I have heard it said that Youri is always first in the gym, and presumably that strengthening work is partly a response to the physicality of the PL midfield battle. He naturally has that Beckham like width/stockiness to him, which is presumably part of the reason for his excellent passing range, but it also means he is not a natural runner. Now we have already seen this season that Kelachi is at least a stone lighter than the season before, and quite possibly more. Someone has convinced him (or instructed him) to lay off the weights, and it is surely part of the reason he has been transformed, looking much more mobile and actually being able to hold off (some) defenders in a foot race. Interestingly he is still holding the ball up well, so his reduced strength has not hindered him too much.

 

Now Youri is an absolutely fantastic technical footballer, but I reckon he is paying the price for carrying quite a lot of muscle for a player who, like most footballers who are not CB's or stay-at-home FB's, is running close to the physical equivalent of a marathon every game. He is still new to a full season so I hope that he will find a better balance next year, when he will also have a little more stamina due to him approaching his peak years.

 

Whatever he gains from the extra strength and muscle, he is losing over that crucial first few yards, imho. Like with Kelachi, I am not saying he will ever be quick, but it would help if he was a bit more mobile. Bear in mind that what might help you over 10 or 12 games largely played weekly (ie last season), may be unsustainable by mid-season when you are playing every 3 -5 days.

 

That's my take on him anyway.

 

 

 

For what its worth I think any changes are planned by Rodgers and the rest of the staff at the club.

Don't think any player gets to go off and do their own thing without careful consideration as to its effects on the players well being and long term performance.

These guys are big time investments. And this part of the game is a science. I won't discuss the ideas in your comment because I don't know shit :)

In this department the buck stops with Rodgers and his coaches. Good or Bad.

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3 hours ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

 Much better at Chelsea, and given that BR says we have been running on empty since Xmas, the reasons for him coming off the boil seem pretty clear now. I think BR should have (with hindsight) rotated more after the second string performed so well in early January.

 

But a more general point is that I have heard it said that Youri is always first in the gym, and presumably that strengthening work is partly a response to the physicality of the PL midfield battle. He naturally has that Beckham like width/stockiness to him, which is presumably part of the reason for his excellent passing range, but it also means he is not a natural runner. Now we have already seen this season that Kelachi is at least a stone lighter than the season before, and quite possibly more. Someone has convinced him (or instructed him) to lay off the weights, and it is surely part of the reason he has been transformed, looking much more mobile and actually being able to hold off (some) defenders in a foot race. Interestingly he is still holding the ball up well, so his reduced strength has not hindered him too much.

 

Now Youri is an absolutely fantastic technical footballer, but I reckon he is paying the price for carrying quite a lot of muscle for a player who, like most footballers who are not CB's or stay-at-home FB's, is running close to the physical equivalent of a marathon every game. He is still new to a full season so I hope that he will find a better balance next year, when he will also have a little more stamina due to him approaching his peak years.

 

Whatever he gains from the extra strength and muscle, he is losing over that crucial first few yards, imho. Like with Kelachi, I am not saying he will ever be quick, but it would help if he was a bit more mobile. Bear in mind that what might help you over 10 or 12 games largely played weekly (ie last season), may be unsustainable by mid-season when you are playing every 3 -5 days.

 

That's my take on him anyway.

 

 

 

The average PL footballer runs about 6.5 miles per game. The harder working ones in attack or midfield will do a bit more and of course there is the tackling physicality element. But in terms of actual running it's around a quarter of a marathon on average. 

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1 hour ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

The average PL footballer runs about 6.5 miles per game. The harder working ones in attack or midfield will do a bit more and of course there is the tackling physicality element. But in terms of actual running it's around a quarter of a marathon on average. 

Good point. I did pluck that out of the air, and having looked into it, a half marathon would have been a much better comparison in terms of energy used.

 

The top runners in football are up around 9.5 miles, apparently. I guess that would be box to box midfielders.

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15 hours ago, NaijaFox said:

 

lollollol

 

Will never get why some on here get so touchy when certain players are criticized. SMH

 

Yes, some of the criticism can be OTT (especially just after we have suffered a poor loss or result), but so also can the praise of players on here. It's all part of fandom.

 

On Tielemans himself, yet to see anyone on FT who doubts his talent (and I stand to be corrected). In fact, the worst most people said was that he should be rested.

 

Nonetheless, I personally had/have no qualms of Tielemans being criticized as he struggled through his poor patch. NO PLAYER IS BIGGER THAN CITY NOR BEYOND CRITICISM!   

Will never get why some do not see how negativity bleeds into the stands and spreads causing further negativity, something not that helpful for younger players :P

 

Criticism is of course fine, and no player is beyond it, just keep it out the match unless someone is obviously totally taking the p*ss and breaking out a sun lounger/opening a tinny

Edited by Dahnsouff
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Guest An Sionnach

Players should be their own biggest critics , never get complacent , always aspire to be better than you are. A bad match happens to everybody , even Messi , but if you have five in a row something must be wrong . Its disappointment that causes the fans to overreact when they know a player can do better.

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7 hours ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

 Much better at Chelsea, and given that BR says we have been running on empty since Xmas, the reasons for him coming off the boil seem pretty clear now. I think BR should have (with hindsight) rotated more after the second string performed so well in early January.

 

But a more general point is that I have heard it said that Youri is always first in the gym, and presumably that strengthening work is partly a response to the physicality of the PL midfield battle. He naturally has that Beckham like width/stockiness to him, which is presumably part of the reason for his excellent passing range, but it also means he is not a natural runner. Now we have already seen this season that Kelachi is at least a stone lighter than the season before, and quite possibly more. Someone has convinced him (or instructed him) to lay off the weights, and it is surely part of the reason he has been transformed, looking much more mobile and actually being able to hold off (some) defenders in a foot race. Interestingly he is still holding the ball up well, so his reduced strength has not hindered him too much.

 

Now Youri is an absolutely fantastic technical footballer, but I reckon he is paying the price for carrying quite a lot of muscle for a player who, like most footballers who are not CB's or stay-at-home FB's, is running close to the physical equivalent of a marathon every game. He is still new to a full season so I hope that he will find a better balance next year, when he will also have a little more stamina due to him approaching his peak years.

 

Whatever he gains from the extra strength and muscle, he is losing over that crucial first few yards, imho. Like with Kelachi, I am not saying he will ever be quick, but it would help if he was a bit more mobile. Bear in mind that what might help you over 10 or 12 games largely played weekly (ie last season), may be unsustainable by mid-season when you are playing every 3 -5 days.

 

That's my take on him anyway.

 

 

 

For me Youri’s biggest attribute is speed of thought.  He (like Maddison) can see the pass in the final third or the one-touch lay-off between the CB and FB that lets Vards, Nacho or Ricky P in.  Harvey on the other hand is more likely to break the line with a piece of individual skill or blistering acceleration.  Add to this Maddison’s ability to hit top bins from the edge of the box.  The important thing is that against teams that sit deep we need options and we have them now.  Yes there are times when the pass is misplaced or intercepted, Harvey is tackled by the FB or the shot ends up in row Z  but we need to applaud the intention and trust Wilf to hoover up.

 

Vardy in a straight foot race with a CB is still a thrilling sight to get us on our feet but some of our goals this season have been things of absolute beauty.

 

What a time to be a City fan.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

 Much better at Chelsea, and given that BR says we have been running on empty since Xmas, the reasons for him coming off the boil seem pretty clear now. I think BR should have (with hindsight) rotated more after the second string performed so well in early January.

 

But a more general point is that I have heard it said that Youri is always first in the gym, and presumably that strengthening work is partly a response to the physicality of the PL midfield battle. He naturally has that Beckham like width/stockiness to him, which is presumably part of the reason for his excellent passing range, but it also means he is not a natural runner. Now we have already seen this season that Kelachi is at least a stone lighter than the season before, and quite possibly more. Someone has convinced him (or instructed him) to lay off the weights, and it is surely part of the reason he has been transformed, looking much more mobile and actually being able to hold off (some) defenders in a foot race. Interestingly he is still holding the ball up well, so his reduced strength has not hindered him too much.

 

Now Youri is an absolutely fantastic technical footballer, but I reckon he is paying the price for carrying quite a lot of muscle for a player who, like most footballers who are not CB's or stay-at-home FB's, is running close to the physical equivalent of a marathon every game. He is still new to a full season so I hope that he will find a better balance next year, when he will also have a little more stamina due to him approaching his peak years.

 

Whatever he gains from the extra strength and muscle, he is losing over that crucial first few yards, imho. Like with Kelachi, I am not saying he will ever be quick, but it would help if he was a bit more mobile. Bear in mind that what might help you over 10 or 12 games largely played weekly (ie last season), may be unsustainable by mid-season when you are playing every 3 -5 days.

 

That's my take on him anyway.

 

 

 

edit 

Edited by HankMarvin
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11 hours ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

The average PL footballer runs about 6.5 miles per game. The harder working ones in attack or midfield will do a bit more and of course there is the tackling physicality element. But in terms of actual running it's around a quarter of a marathon on average. 


It’s about being able to perform their skills while fatigued, as much as it is distance ran though. It isn’t comparable directly to a marathon with the mixture of aerobic and an-aerobic fitness. 
 

Youri and the rest off the squad would absolutely p!ss a marathon. Having the fitness to perform at the highest intensity with little recovery time between phases of play is worlds apart. 

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We're more balanced with Praet over Youri in my opinion. Whilst Tielemans is probably the better scorer and creator, Praet is much better defensively, covers more ground, quicker and is more disciplined as well as still being classy on the ball.

 

Tielemans will come good again, it's just weaknesses are exacerbated by playing alongside Maddison.

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15 hours ago, st albans fox said:

It’s not the marathon, it’s the sprints ....

 

any athlete can just run around for 90 mins, it’s the repetitive sprints that stand you out at the elite level ....

As an endurance running coach I’d argue otherwise. 

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16 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Will never get why some do not see how negativity bleeds into the stands and spreads causing further negativity, something not that helpful for younger players :P

 

Criticism is of course fine, and no player is beyond it, just keep it out the match unless someone is obviously totally taking the p*ss and breaking out a sun lounger/opening a tinny

Strawman's Argument, because I am reasonably certain that the vast majority of people on the stands do not visit FT.

 

It is NOT mutually-exclusive to criticize the SPECIFIC performance(s) of players after a game here on FT and then cheer them from the stands on game day. Even coaches criticize players on the training ground, in the dressing room and behind close doors, but still play them and cheer them on from the sidelines on game day.

 

A DISCUSSION forum is anything but if participation requires every discussant to march goosestep. We are FOXES, not sheep!    

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20 hours ago, SO1 said:

For what its worth I think any changes are planned by Rodgers and the rest of the staff at the club.

Don't think any player gets to go off and do their own thing without careful consideration as to its effects on the players well being and long term performance.

These guys are big time investments. And this part of the game is a science. I won't discuss the ideas in your comment because I don't know shit :)

In this department the buck stops with Rodgers and his coaches. Good or Bad.

 

 I take your point, the medical/sports science folks should be all over it, although I would imagine the players opinion was also taken into account. I often have one theory or another floating around my head about specific playing issues, which are often subsequently disproved by further info.

 

I was saying Kelachi was too heavy last year, so I am coming off a rare occasion of having had a fair point for once. :D

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2 minutes ago, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

 I take your point, the medical/sports science folks should be all over it, although I would imagine the players opinion was also taken into account. I often have one theory or another floating around my head about specific playing issues, which are often subsequently disproved by further info.

 

I was saying Kelachi was too heavy last year, so I am coming off a rare occasion of having had a fair point for once. :D

Absolutely would the player and his agent have a say in the matter(probably his wife too). I'm always guessing about things based on what I read and see about the game.

Always interested in having discussions about why things are the way they are. And never have any problem with being wrong and learning.

Just trying to write around broken glass and have respect for other peoples ideas. :)

............and I don't care about Kelachi's weight as long as he keeps doing what he doing.......goddamit.......never satisfied this place.

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10 hours ago, NaijaFox said:

Strawman's Argument, because I am reasonably certain that the vast majority of people on the stands do not visit FT.

 

It is NOT mutually-exclusive to criticize the SPECIFIC performance(s) of players after a game here on FT and then cheer them from the stands on game day. Even coaches criticize players on the training ground, in the dressing room and behind close doors, but still play them and cheer them on from the sidelines on game day.

 

A DISCUSSION forum is anything but if participation requires every discussant to march goosestep. We are FOXES, not sheep!    

Not sure how its a Strawman's argument, as it is a viewpoint contrary to your own, but I do confess to being contrite in way it was portrayed.

However, I never stated it was exclusive to criticize a player, I was merely suggesting that forum of criticism is best left outside the match day atmosphere.

Be it pub, forum, park, or some other venue, criticism is often warranted and an interesting topic of conversation, but to suggest that such criticism vociferously voiced at the ground is warranted, smacks of self indulgence and is in no way for the benefit of the team.

To suggest to the contrary is being disingenuous I would suggest.

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24 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Not sure how its a Strawman's argument, as it is a viewpoint contrary to your own, but I do confess to being contrite in way it was portrayed.

However, I never stated it was exclusive to criticize a player, I was merely suggesting that forum of criticism is best left outside the match day atmosphere.

Be it pub, forum, park, or some other venue, criticism is often warranted and an interesting topic of conversation, but to suggest that such criticism vociferously voiced at the ground is warranted, smacks of self indulgence and is in no way for the benefit of the team.

To suggest to the contrary is being disingenuous I would suggest.

'Strawman argument'

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12 hours ago, Stadt said:

We're more balanced with Praet over Youri in my opinion. Whilst Tielemans is probably the better scorer and creator, Praet is much better defensively, covers more ground, quicker and is more disciplined as well as still being classy on the ball.

 

Tielemans will come good again, it's just weaknesses are exacerbated by playing alongside Maddison.

I couldn't disagree more, have we even won a game yet this season in the league when Praet has started over Tielemans?

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