England v Bulgaria - Wembley Sat @ 5pm (ITV)

[davieG]

Gareth Southgate puts Maddison at heart of his latest England evolution
England have excelled on the counterattack but manager knows they must keep the ball better to challenge the best

Paul MacInnes
 

Fri 6 Sep 2019 11.00 BSTLast modified on Fri 6 Sep 2019 11.21 BST

With a waistcoat rather than a donkey jacket, Gareth Southgate does not look like a radical. But the England manager can sound like he has been cribbing from Karl Marx when he talks about his football team. There is a minute difference, rather than Marx’s ‘constant revolution’ Southgate wants ‘constant evolution’, but the ultimate aim is the same: the conquering of state power by the proletariat (or winning the World Cup, whichever comes first).

Southgate goes into the next round of European Championship qualifiers this weekend having evolved his Lions once more. The absence of Kyle Walker, justified on the slightly unconvincing premise that Kieran Trippier needed to be reacquainted with the squad after 10 months’ absence, has been the main talking point. But there are other names missing too and, in total, only 11 players from the 2018 World Cup squad have been selected for the fixtures against Bulgaria and Kosovo.

In this case the evolution will be televised, but what is it hoping to achieve? Straightforwardly, Southgate has further rejuvenated his squad. The average age has come down by nigh-on a year since the World Cup and the aim is to give players inexperienced at this level time to bed in before the Euros. (By the way, if that sounds a little bit presumptive, the chances of England not qualifying for next summer’s 24-team tournament are about the same as Graeme Souness being named chairman of the Paul Pogba fan club.)

“We’ve got to keep evolving as a squad and as a team,” is Southgate’s view. “We’ve had a two-year period of progress and constant improvement, I think. But we can’t stand still and there are young players coming through that we might not see the best of in the next two years actually, but for the long term for England we need to start integrating them because I think this team can constantly improve and evolve.”

So players such as Mason Mount, James Maddison and Tyrone Mings will be put through their paces, exposed to all the motivational slogans of St George’s Park and welcomed properly into the England family. But does this evolution consist of more than just teeing up the next generation? There is reason to suspect it might.

It is not just the personnel that has changed dramatically during Gareth Southgate’s time in charge of the England team. When he first got his feet under the desk, England played a 4-2-3-1 formation with a No 10 – Wayne Rooney or Dele Alli at the time – expected to knit everything together in the style of the player England have never had since Paul Gascoigne (and never used in that way when he was around). Just before the World Cup that system changed, to the famous and multi-hyphenated 3-1-2-2-2, which shored things up at the back a bit and asked two advanced midfielders – Alli again and Jesse Lingard – to facilitate the speedy transition of the ball (or alternatively themselves) to the final third.

Since those heady Luzhniki nights, England have transformed once more. The shape is now a more familiar 4-3-3 with pace to burn on the wings and a balance of abilities in midfield. The landmark victory in this formation, the 3-2 win in Spain, saw a midfield three of Eric Dier as enforcer, Harry Winks as the passing metronome and Ross Barkley as the man with licence to progress with the ball at his feet.

England look likely to continue with 4-3-3 this season and into the Euros. There might well be a change in how it is played, however. The win in Seville, as thrilling as it was, saw England register only 27% of possession. There was a similar pattern against the Netherlands in the summer after Marcus Rashford’s opening goal. Between that penalty and Walker’s own goal in extra time, their opponents had nigh-on two-thirds of the ball.

Possession may not be nine-tenths of the law in football, and England – thanks to the pace and skill of players such as Raheem Sterling and Jadon Sancho – are and will continue to be a powerful threat on the counterattack. But if this team are to keep evolving – and we have established that it must – then they need to up it in terms of possession and go toe to toe against even the toughest opponents.

That is where Mount and, in particular, Maddison come in. Southgate explained the absence of the Leicester man from his squad earlier this year as being because “I think he’s a No 10 and, at the moment, we’ve not been playing with a 10”. Asked last week about this, however, and Southgate had changed his mind.

“He played as an eight in the summer for us”, Southgate said of Maddison’s not entirely successful under-21s campaign. “Mason can definitely play as an eight and equally off the wing as well. They’re [both] players of high technical ability who are going to threaten the goal.”

Alongside Phil Foden, Maddison and Mount make up a trio of players who have the skills of that mythical No 10, but are likely to be deployed in a more responsible way as a No 8 in a midfield three. They can hurt the opposition with passes, they are effective shooters from range, they have the ability to carry the ball, but perhaps most importantly they know – or will be expected to know – how to hold on to it. This would appear to be the next evolution of England.

Constant revolution has not arrived on the shores of the UK – not yet anyway – and constant evolution may also prove tricky. Southgate has set himself a high bar thanks to England’s exploits in Russia and he knows well enough that expectations at home will clear that mark next summer. Playing the youngsters will not provide any cover. England have a year to bed in new players and advance their style before a competition in which reaching the semi-finals would be par. The Impossible Job is back.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/sep/06/gareth-southgate-james-maddison-england-evolution

[davieG]

FourFourTwo predicts Maddison to start....

 

 

James Maddison (CM)

 

Why has James Maddison had to work harder than anyone else to get England recognition?
Some might say it’s too early for Maddison, given that he’s not actually won his first senior cap for the national side yet. Others would say it’s criminally overdue, though, given his fine debut season for Leicester and excellent start to 2019/20. 

The 22-year-old created more chances than anyone else in the Premier League last season and added seven goals – making him significantly more productive than any of his positional rivals. He has also proved his positional flexibility under Brendan Rodgers, surely alleviating a previous concern of Southgate’s. 

Read more at https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/predicted-englands-xi-vs-bulgaria-winks-and-maddison-make-cut#jOBb48jr2CFZoPhg.99

[Tuna]

Scenes when Mount starts ahead of Maddison.

[Langston]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

rather than Marx’s ‘constant revolution’ Southgate wants ‘constant evolution’

 

[Out Foxed]

why the **** does it seem everyone is drinking the southgate kool aid. he's not a good manager tactically. 

[Foxin_Mad]

22 minutes ago, Out Foxed said:

why the **** does it seem everyone is drinking the southgate kool aid. he's not a good manager tactically. 

Because we got to the semi final when everyone was crap suddenly we have become fantastic, there is a lot wrong tactically with England. The persistence with certain players is also a bit baffling. 

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, davieG said:

Gareth Southgate puts Maddison at heart of his latest England evolution
England have excelled on the counterattack but manager knows they must keep the ball better to challenge the best

Paul MacInnes
 

Fri 6 Sep 2019 11.00 BSTLast modified on Fri 6 Sep 2019 11.21 BST

With a waistcoat rather than a donkey jacket, Gareth Southgate does not look like a radical. But the England manager can sound like he has been cribbing from Karl Marx when he talks about his football team. There is a minute difference, rather than Marx’s ‘constant revolution’ Southgate wants ‘constant evolution’, but the ultimate aim is the same: the conquering of state power by the proletariat (or winning the World Cup, whichever comes first).

Southgate goes into the next round of European Championship qualifiers this weekend having evolved his Lions once more. The absence of Kyle Walker, justified on the slightly unconvincing premise that Kieran Trippier needed to be reacquainted with the squad after 10 months’ absence, has been the main talking point. But there are other names missing too and, in total, only 11 players from the 2018 World Cup squad have been selected for the fixtures against Bulgaria and Kosovo.

In this case the evolution will be televised, but what is it hoping to achieve? Straightforwardly, Southgate has further rejuvenated his squad. The average age has come down by nigh-on a year since the World Cup and the aim is to give players inexperienced at this level time to bed in before the Euros. (By the way, if that sounds a little bit presumptive, the chances of England not qualifying for next summer’s 24-team tournament are about the same as Graeme Souness being named chairman of the Paul Pogba fan club.)

“We’ve got to keep evolving as a squad and as a team,” is Southgate’s view. “We’ve had a two-year period of progress and constant improvement, I think. But we can’t stand still and there are young players coming through that we might not see the best of in the next two years actually, but for the long term for England we need to start integrating them because I think this team can constantly improve and evolve.”

So players such as Mason Mount, James Maddison and Tyrone Mings will be put through their paces, exposed to all the motivational slogans of St George’s Park and welcomed properly into the England family. But does this evolution consist of more than just teeing up the next generation? There is reason to suspect it might.

It is not just the personnel that has changed dramatically during Gareth Southgate’s time in charge of the England team. When he first got his feet under the desk, England played a 4-2-3-1 formation with a No 10 – Wayne Rooney or Dele Alli at the time – expected to knit everything together in the style of the player England have never had since Paul Gascoigne (and never used in that way when he was around). Just before the World Cup that system changed, to the famous and multi-hyphenated 3-1-2-2-2, which shored things up at the back a bit and asked two advanced midfielders – Alli again and Jesse Lingard – to facilitate the speedy transition of the ball (or alternatively themselves) to the final third.

Since those heady Luzhniki nights, England have transformed once more. The shape is now a more familiar 4-3-3 with pace to burn on the wings and a balance of abilities in midfield. The landmark victory in this formation, the 3-2 win in Spain, saw a midfield three of Eric Dier as enforcer, Harry Winks as the passing metronome and Ross Barkley as the man with licence to progress with the ball at his feet.

England look likely to continue with 4-3-3 this season and into the Euros. There might well be a change in how it is played, however. The win in Seville, as thrilling as it was, saw England register only 27% of possession. There was a similar pattern against the Netherlands in the summer after Marcus Rashford’s opening goal. Between that penalty and Walker’s own goal in extra time, their opponents had nigh-on two-thirds of the ball.

Possession may not be nine-tenths of the law in football, and England – thanks to the pace and skill of players such as Raheem Sterling and Jadon Sancho – are and will continue to be a powerful threat on the counterattack. But if this team are to keep evolving – and we have established that it must – then they need to up it in terms of possession and go toe to toe against even the toughest opponents.

That is where Mount and, in particular, Maddison come in. Southgate explained the absence of the Leicester man from his squad earlier this year as being because “I think he’s a No 10 and, at the moment, we’ve not been playing with a 10”. Asked last week about this, however, and Southgate had changed his mind.

“He played as an eight in the summer for us”, Southgate said of Maddison’s not entirely successful under-21s campaign. “Mason can definitely play as an eight and equally off the wing as well. They’re [both] players of high technical ability who are going to threaten the goal.”

Alongside Phil Foden, Maddison and Mount make up a trio of players who have the skills of that mythical No 10, but are likely to be deployed in a more responsible way as a No 8 in a midfield three. They can hurt the opposition with passes, they are effective shooters from range, they have the ability to carry the ball, but perhaps most importantly they know – or will be expected to know – how to hold on to it. This would appear to be the next evolution of England.

Constant revolution has not arrived on the shores of the UK – not yet anyway – and constant evolution may also prove tricky. Southgate has set himself a high bar thanks to England’s exploits in Russia and he knows well enough that expectations at home will clear that mark next summer. Playing the youngsters will not provide any cover. England have a year to bed in new players and advance their style before a competition in which reaching the semi-finals would be par. The Impossible Job is back.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/sep/06/gareth-southgate-james-maddison-england-evolution

 

2 hours ago, davieG said:

FourFourTwo predicts Maddison to start....

 

 

James Maddison (CM)

 

Why has James Maddison had to work harder than anyone else to get England recognition?
Some might say it’s too early for Maddison, given that he’s not actually won his first senior cap for the national side yet. Others would say it’s criminally overdue, though, given his fine debut season for Leicester and excellent start to 2019/20. 

The 22-year-old created more chances than anyone else in the Premier League last season and added seven goals – making him significantly more productive than any of his positional rivals. He has also proved his positional flexibility under Brendan Rodgers, surely alleviating a previous concern of Southgate’s. 

Read more at https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/predicted-englands-xi-vs-bulgaria-winks-and-maddison-make-cut#jOBb48jr2CFZoPhg.99

Here starts the season long campaign by the media to get Maddison a big money move to Man Utd...

[Fox92]

3 hours ago, Out Foxed said:

why the **** does it seem everyone is drinking the southgate kool aid. he's not a good manager tactically. 

No other country with genuine ambitions of challenging for a World Cup/European Championship would have someone like Southgate as manager. Same applies to having Boothroyd in as under 23 manager.

 

Two managers who have done nothing in their managerial careers (though I do respect the job Boothroyd did at Watford getting them into the PL for a season) have the best jobs in the Country.

[Langston]

1 minute ago, Fox92 said:

No other country with genuine ambitions of challenging for a World Cup/European Championship would have someone like Southgate as manager. Same applies to having Boothroyd in as under 23 manager.

 

Two managers who have done nothing in their managerial careers (though I do respect the job Boothroyd did at Watford getting them into the PL for a season) have the best jobs in the Country.

 

Who else wanted the England gig when Southgate took it on, though? Horrid job.

Out of his depth a little perhaps, but for the first time in well, well over a decade I don't want to hang myself at international weekends.

[Fox92]

5 minutes ago, Langston said:

 

Who else wanted the England gig when Southgate took it on, though? Horrid job.

Out of his depth a little perhaps, but for the first time in well, well over a decade I don't want to hang myself at international weekends.

Yeah that's also true. There isn't a clear choice either, it's not as if the top two are both English managers.

[Suzie the Fox]

8 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

No other country with genuine ambitions of challenging for a World Cup/European Championship would have someone like Southgate as manager. Same applies to having Boothroyd in as under 23 manager.

 

Two managers who have done nothing in their managerial careers (though I do respect the job Boothroyd did at Watford getting them into the PL for a season) have the best jobs in the Country.

I don't dislike Southgate, i certainly wouldn't lump him in the same mould as Boothroyd.

 

Like the above poster has mentioned it makes the international breaks watchable again. 

[Dorkingfox]

4 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Yeah that's also true. There isn't a clear choice either, it's not as if the top two are both English managers.

He is just inert

 

[The_Rorab]

He's definitely not brilliant by any stretch of the imagination, but when I remember the World Cup - lucky maybe as we were at times, and especially when I remember were it not for his dodgy dealings, we would have had Sam Allardyce in charge, then I'm pretty content with Southgate.

 

As posters have said above, I sometimes just didn't bother watching England games - more often than not, I do now.

[RoboFox]

Sorry, but I just feel totally apathetic towards England again. The World Cup seems like a long time ago, and I cant bring myself to get excited about the Euro qualification, it’s just a formality.

 

The excitement around City’s potential this season is addictive and the international breaks are an unwelcome borefest.

[Claridge]

Not sure there is any prem team that Southgate would improve. 

[Stadt]

Nobody expected England to overachieve like we have under Southgate. He's a transitional manager and he's doing a decent job of that. We have a talented but unbalanced squad and he's pretty much got the most out of it he can so far. Granted he makes mistakes but he's changed the culture around the national side and that alone is a superb achievement.

 

 

[Gamble92]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

No other country with genuine ambitions of challenging for a World Cup/European Championship would have someone like Southgate as manager. Same applies to having Boothroyd in as under 23 manager.

 

Two managers who have done nothing in their managerial careers (though I do respect the job Boothroyd did at Watford getting them into the PL for a season) have the best jobs in the Country.

We went down the route of getting managers with incredible CVs in Europe. Look at Capello's record. Then the tournament came around and he did not have a clue.

 

Many countries have had the same model of getting a young coach who has managed their u21s and coached the same group over a number of years. So far, he's produced the best tournament in my lifetime.

 

And i don't buy this bullshit about only having easy teams. We played the likes of Sweden because they'd already beaten the so called big teams. 

 

How can anyone forget the "golden" generation limped past Trinadad & Tobago, drew with Algeria and USA etc at big tournaments. That team wouldnt have got to a semi, never mind play with a genuine team spirit and actually look proud to be there representing us.

 

So easy to sit back and criticise and some always will with England. But the ones who were getting behind the team during the years of shit are the same ones who see encouraging signs now. 

[Sir Shep]

Whilst I agree with some of the points about Southgate, at least he had the balls to start picking players on form and merit rather than reputation and club, most of the time (cough Lingard!)

[Goober]

Not taken long for people to turn against the England side again. Well weird. Last summer was incredible

[Dahnsouff]

Some people need something to moan about. Sad state of so called society. 

Good luck to England, and any player selected for these matches.

[Dr Marco]

Come on England!

[Fox92]

2 hours ago, Goober said:

Not taken long for people to turn against the England side again. Well weird. Last summer was incredible

Why is it 'weird'? It's a discussion. Southgate did a good job but it doesn't mean I can't criticise, it's a forum ffs. Last summer was incredible, I haven't said anything other. We overachieved. Do I think he'll do anything else though? No.

[Fox92]

2 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Some people need something to moan about. Sad state of so called society. 

Good luck to England, and any player selected for these matches.

If you don't want to see 'moaning' then I'd advise not to read a forum.

 

Sad state of society  Get a grip.

Edited 6 September 2019 by Fox92

[urban.spaceman]

3 hours ago, Langston said:

 

Who else wanted the England gig when Southgate took it on, though? Horrid job.

Out of his depth a little perhaps, but for the first time in well, well over a decade I don't want to hang myself at international weekends.

This is unbelievably important. The way the country connected with the team last summer was immense.

[purpleronnie]

4 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

This is unbelievably important. The way the country connected with the team last summer was immense.

We do better when no-one expects anything , unfortunately now everyone thinks we can win tournaments