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simFox

Corona Virus

By simFox, in General Chat

Mark
Message added by Mark

No political discussion in this topic. That is complaining about a country, a politician, a party and/or its voters, etc

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brucey

brucey

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, String fellow said:

If we all wore a 4 metre diameter hula-hoop around our waists, would that do the trick? 

It would yeah, no one would be able to fit through their front doors. Enforced home isolation

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bovril

bovril

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, murphy said:

I take your point, but I still think you are misunderstanding the plan.

 

I think you have too much faith in the idea that this is all part of a 'plan'. I'm not going to criticise the government too much at the moment because it's a horrible situation that they have started to respond well to, but it took them too long to get their arses in gear. The idea that we sacrifice lives in the short term because Brits will react badly to sudden draconian measures is absurd. 

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murphy

murphy

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, bovril said:

I think you have too much faith in the idea that this is all part of a 'plan'. I'm not going to criticise the government too much at the moment because it's a horrible situation that they have started to respond well to, but it took them too long to get their arses in gear. The idea that we sacrifice lives in the short term because Brits will react badly to sudden draconian measures is absurd. 

No part of the plan is to sacrifice lives.  It's all about saving them by trying not to overstretch NHS capacity,.  The interventions need to be at different stages of the curve for that reason.

 

We are told that we can't stop it.  To produce a flatline graph with an instant lockdown is not possible.  It is the same everywhere, so we need to broaden the curve.

 

Maybe I do have too much faith in it, but if you don't believe the epidemiologists, the health officers and the scientists, who do you believe?

Edited by murphy
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bovril

bovril

Posted
Posted
Just now, murphy said:

No part of the plan is to sacrifice lives.  It's all about saving them by trying not to overstretch NHS capacity,.  The interventions need to be at different stages of the curve for that reason.

 

We are told that we can't stop it.  To produce a flatline graph with an instant lockdown is not possible.  It is the same everywhere, so we need to broaden the curve.

 

Maybe I do have too much faith in it, but if you don't believe the epidemiologists, the health officers and the scientists, who do you believe?

Yes the plan is about trying to save lives by not overstretching NHS capacity, so drip feeding us measures that got ever-so-slightly more stringent as the days went on seems odd to me. The government lost time and sent out mixed messages. 

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l444ry

l444ry

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, murphy said:

No part of the plan is to sacrifice lives.  It's all about saving them by trying not to overstretch NHS capacity,.  The interventions need to be at different stages of the curve for that reason.

 

We are told that we can't stop it.  To produce a flatline graph with an instant lockdown is not possible.  It is the same everywhere, so we need to broaden the curve.

 

Maybe I do have too much faith in it, but if you don't believe the epidemiologists, the health officers and the scientists, who do you believe?

WHO maybe?

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filbertway

filbertway

Posted
Posted

I find is fascinating that some people think the government should have locked everyone inside for an indeterminate amount of time till a vaccines is ready then expect everyone to pop out there houses with cheery smiles. If you start a lock down with the intention of nobody catching the virus then you have to stay in that state till the virus is no longer a danger right? Nobody died from the virus but half the country opened their wrists after watching Mrs Browns boys live for the 10,000th time.

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l444ry

l444ry

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, murphy said:

OK, they have given general advice but I am yet to see them come up with a one size fits all plan.

Go on their website murphy. It's all there in black and white. The herd immunity strategy was a mistake of monumental proportions and the death toll we face in the next few weeks will confirm this. Johnson and Tory bootlickers should be honest with themselves and admit that much at least. 

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reynard

reynard

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, brucey said:

Great in theory, but in reality the world is far more dependent on China than vice versa. All will be forgotten, plans to shift manufacturing locally shelved, and nothing much will change. 

Yes. When all this is over it will be the great industrial nations and groups of nations which are most likely to be in the strongest position. As we will need a new trade deal with China (and they are and will be massively vital to our economic recovery) they will hold virtually all the cards.

Any talk of punishing China is Trumpis in the extreme.

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murphy

murphy

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Go on their website murphy. It's all there in black and white.

I just did.  I'm not going to argue with WHO, but I see lots of statistics and advice but not an off the shelf plan to manage an epidemic, or maybe I am just missing it.  We need to rely on our own experts for that and I'm sure they listen to and are part of WHO;

 

17 minutes ago, l444ry said:

 The herd immunity strategy was a mistake of monumental proportions and the death toll we face in the next few weeks will confirm this. Johnson and Tory bootlickers should be honest with themselves and admit that much at least. 

Don't start me off again lol

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reynard

reynard

Posted
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, murphy said:

No part of the plan is to sacrifice lives.  It's all about saving them by trying not to overstretch NHS capacity,.  The interventions need to be at different stages of the curve for that reason.

 

We are told that we can't stop it.  To produce a flatline graph with an instant lockdown is not possible.  It is the same everywhere, so we need to broaden the curve.

 

Maybe I do have too much faith in it, but if you don't believe the epidemiologists, the health officers and the scientists, who do you believe?

Well that isn't looking likely. We have to hope what we are doing works because if not in 2 weeks we will have 232000 people infected if the number of infections double every 4 days. If that is what he really meant (Gove at press conference)

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HankMarvin

HankMarvin

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I find is fascinating that some people think the government should have locked everyone inside for an indeterminate amount of time till a vaccines is ready then expect everyone to pop out there houses with cheery smiles. If you start a lock down with the intention of nobody catching the virus then you have to stay in that state till the virus is no longer a danger right? Nobody died from the virus but half the country opened their wrists after watching Mrs Browns boys live for the 10,000th time.

You speak like there was months between the decisions.. that extra week really isn’t going to send people stir crazy when we are told possibly 3 months 

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Guesty

Guesty

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20 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Go on their website murphy. It's all there in black and white. The herd immunity strategy was a mistake of monumental proportions and the death toll we face in the next few weeks will confirm this. Johnson and Tory bootlickers should be honest with themselves and admit that much at least. 

Thing is with herd immunity it was mainly Patrick Vallance who said about herd immunity. It never was the goal, it was more of a side effect of their plan. It's true they underestimated how fast it would spread though. Matt Hancock even came out and point blank said: "herd immunity is not our goal or policy." It was just really bad communication, but that's the problem with scientists I guess; they're not media experts.

 

They did say in the first press conference many more people are going to die and we will introduce more harsher methods later; and implied it would impact people's mental health and people would not be disciplined enough yet. Which is what's happened.

 

If they were being honest they'd probably have come out and said: We'd like to lockdown now, but we have no plan for the economy and your jobs yet; and some of you are so stupid that we know in a few days when you see people dying there will still be a load of you that will ignore our advice. If we try and lock you down now, a load of you will rebel, or be down the shops buying anything and everything and the infrastructure isn't there to cope with it. Plus, we've run the NHS and the police into the ground, we hadn't planned for this and need to get a load of staff and plans in place. So we're going to do this in steps cause if we're being honest, we're not ready - which means some will die, but we have to wait till the NHS is about to be overwelmed to really lockdown.

 

The WHO are right, but it only works in a fairytale world where people do what they're told. I watched a documentary on Ebola in Africa; people started attacking the workers in the protective suits who were trying to help people. People are stupid when they're scared.

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String fellow

String fellow

Posted
Posted (edited)

Not only was the idea of 'herd immunity' a bad one, but even the phrase itself isn't great. Is the human population of this country really just a 'herd'? Wouldn't something like 'group immunity' make it sound a little less like we are all no better than a field full of cows? 

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Leeds Fox

Leeds Fox

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9 minutes ago, Guesty said:

 

Thing is with herd immunity it was mainly Patrick Vallance who said about herd immunity. It never was the goal, it was more of a side effect of their plan. It's true they underestimated how fast it would spread though. Matt Hancock even came out and point blank said: "herd immunity is not our goal or policy." It was just really bad communication, but that's the problem with scientists I guess; they're not media experts.

 

They did say in the first press conference many more people are going to die and we will introduce more harsher methods later; and implied it would impact people's mental health and people would not be disciplined enough yet. Which is what's happened.

 

If they were being honest they'd probably have come out and said: We'd like to lockdown now, but we have no plan for the economy and your jobs yet; and some of you are so stupid that we know in a few days when you see people dying there will still be a load of you that will ignore our advice. If we try and lock you down now, a load of you will rebel, or be down the shops buying anything and everything and the infrastructure isn't there to cope with it. Plus, we've run the NHS and the police into the ground, we hadn't planned for this and need to get a load of staff and plans in place. So we're going to do this in steps cause if we're being honest, we're not ready - which means some will die, but we have to wait till the NHS is about to be overwelmed to really lockdown.

 

The WHO are right, but it only works in a fairytale world where people do what they're told. I watched a documentary on Ebola in Africa; people started attacking the workers in the protective suits who were trying to help people. People are stupid when they're scared.


I couldn’t have said it better. 
 

The government and their spokespeople are trying to get a message across that can be understood (and still isn’t) by the whole population. Whether the plan we have is right, is by-the-by now. It’s the plan and it’ll only work if it’s adhered to, but if it is adhered to, it will work. This is an unprecedented situation in modern times, especially in the western-world. 
 

The information given to us has to be understood by all. If they were being honest, many would understand, even if they disagree they’d understand that it’s the way we’re heading (still entitled to their opinions on it of course). However there seems to be so many people, even from the outset who simply can’t understand what’s going on. Why we’re socially distancing, when to wash their hands etc. 
 

The whole situation has made me realise, in society, at work, in my social groups how little common sense people have. How they can’t see the bigger picture, what knock-on effects things have, etc... 

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Heathrow fox

Heathrow fox

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:


I couldn’t have said it better. 
 

The government and their spokespeople are trying to get a message across that can be understood (and still isn’t) by the whole population. Whether the plan we have is right, is by-the-by now. It’s the plan and it’ll only work if it’s adhered to, but if it is adhered to, it will work. This is an unprecedented situation in modern times, especially in the western-world. 
 

The information given to us has to be understood by all. If they were being honest, many would understand, even if they disagree they’d understand that it’s the way we’re heading (still entitled to their opinions on it of course). However there seems to be so many people, even from the outset who simply can’t understand what’s going on. Why we’re socially distancing, when to wash their hands etc. 
 

The whole situation has made me realise, in society, at work, in my social groups how little common sense people have. How they can’t see the bigger picture, what knock-on effects things have, etc... 

Particularly the economy and how that works.

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