Corona Virus

[Bayfox]

32 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

It's not going to last years ffs.

If it lasts longer than the initially mentioned 12 weeks, I think the next epidemic will be mental health, I've been able to work most of last week, although we had to shut down yesterday, I've been able to go food shopping and take my daughter put on her bike for exercise, the weather has helped in terms of being able to sit in the garden, but for those with no or little outdoor space, or who love to socialise like myself, it will become a living hell.

 

The sooner I can get to the pub to talk shite with the locals the better. The complete lack of sport on TV makes things worse.

 

For those with families it must be a little easier, for those on their own that can't get to the club, bingo, bowls, the gym, what ever social activity that gets them out and about it must be hard.

[Nick]

11 minutes ago, MattP said:

A senior member of staff in a hospital isn't going to be omniscient on the modelling Imperial College were doing to assess when the best time was going into lockdown. 

 

On all the models produced at some point the health service was going to be over capacity without enough ventilators, but you have to choose one to go down and we've gone with trying to flatten the curve over a long period of time to delay whilst we increase capacity for a potential second wave.

 

No one is going to know who got it right until next year when the winter is over.

I understand that - I wrote senior member of staff to get the point across. I wont write their actual role title but basically as high as it gets - with access and knowledge around the modelling.

[Nick]

2 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Mate's elderly Dad with a list of health problems as long as your arm has been tested positive for Covid-19.

 

No idea how he's doing. All starting to get a bit close to home

 

 

Yep I know a few peeps with it now - quite a few in their 50’s and a couple of them quite big people who are having some real trouble with breathing and coughing up crap.

 

Gets real when it’s a friend or family member all of a sudden.

[murphy]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Interesting read.

 

It does seem that up until the end of Feb the WHO and relevant authorities had limited or incorrect information to go on and that played a pretty key part in what happened next and so China should indeed answer for that. However, judging by this thread alone it seems a mite simplistic and, yet again, politically convenient, to just blame them, because:

 

- what about decisions made post-Feb in the UK when things were abundantly clearer?

- does it justify the clear lack of preparation and international collaboration on same for something like this practically everywhere (with a few notable exceptions)?

 

It's a mite frustrating that things on here seem to keep coming back to simple inference of "blame the Chinese, not ourselves, whoever we are" when the issue is clearly much more complex than that and I'm having to give the same rebuttal over and over, even though it's concerning a regime that I have no love for and would very much like to see brought low.

I don't see any benefit in just blaming the Chinese or even punishing them somehow as others have suggested, but surely some kind of pressure needs to be applied for them to seriously look at their trade in exotic meats and traditional medicines.  Perhaps as a silver lining to this, it might help some endangered species.

[murphy]

7 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

If it lasts longer than the initially mentioned 12 weeks, I think the next epidemic will be mental health, I've been able to work most of last week, although we had to shut down yesterday, I've been able to go food shopping and take my daughter put on her bike for exercise, the weather has helped in terms of being able to sit in the garden, but for those with no or little outdoor space, or who love to socialise like myself, it will become a living hell.

 

The sooner I can get to the pub to talk shite with the locals the better. The complete lack of sport on TV makes things worse.

 

For those with families it must be a little easier, for those on their own that can't get to the club, bingo, bowls, the gym, what ever social activity that gets them out and about it must be hard.

True, but I fear for the NHS frontline staff.  I think that nurses and doctors will be coming down with PTSD.  It's gonna be awful.

[st albans fox]

18 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

That all hinges on whether or not you think the Chinese government are being honest. 

 

I absolutely do not think that. 

I speak to my office every day .......whilst the authorities issue their numbers, the people are the doctors and nurses. if there were widespread cases ongoing now then the ‘people’ would know. In early feb we were being told that Wuhan was way worse than was being admitted to by the govt. I don’t doubt for one minute that the numbers of cases and deaths quoted are way below what actually happened. 

[leicsmac]

17 minutes ago, murphy said:

I don't see any benefit in just blaming the Chinese or even punishing them somehow as others have suggested, but surely some kind of pressure needs to be applied for them to seriously look at their trade in exotic meats and traditional medicines.  Perhaps as a silver lining to this, it might help some endangered species.

On that I can certainly agree - that trade, quite aside from being ethically horrible, has been responsible for outbreaks of disease before now. What if the next one is worse than this? Hopefully they'll see sense on that.

[Izzy]

21 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

If it lasts longer than the initially mentioned 12 weeks, I think the next epidemic will be mental health, I've been able to work most of last week, although we had to shut down yesterday, I've been able to go food shopping and take my daughter put on her bike for exercise, the weather has helped in terms of being able to sit in the garden, but for those with no or little outdoor space, or who love to socialise like myself, it will become a living hell.

 

The sooner I can get to the pub to talk shite with the locals the better. The complete lack of sport on TV makes things worse.

 

For those with families it must be a little easier, for those on their own that can't get to the club, bingo, bowls, the gym, what ever social activity that gets them out and about it must be hard.

I'd say it's harder (well for me anyway)

 

The thought of having four of us cramped up together in a small 3 bed terrace for months on end is a nightmare - especially with a fvcked up OCD teenage daughter.

 

I'd love a bit of 'me' time in isolation rather than tripping over moody family members every other minute.

[Strokes]

It’s people like my dad that suffer through all of this enforced isolation. He has severe dementia but still lives at home with carer visits and a district nurse, routine is key to his day to day wellbeing. He cannot understand why I can’t visit, he cannot remember that there is no football every weekend. He is deteriorating fast and I can’t help him. 

[Foxxed]

14 hours ago, Guesty said:

 

Thing is with herd immunity it was mainly Patrick Vallance who said about herd immunity. It never was the goal, it was more of a side effect of their plan.

Yet Bojo repeated it. Bojo said he still shook hands. His father poo-pooed the importance of taking precautions.

 

Bojo failed in his responsibility to lead. We are seeing the repercussions.

 

Edited 28 March 2020 by Foxxed

[The Fox Covert]

9 minutes ago, murphy said:

I don't see any benefit in just blaming the Chinese or even punishing them somehow as others have suggested, but surely some kind of pressure needs to be applied for them to seriously look at their trade in exotic meats and traditional medicines.  Perhaps as a silver lining to this, it might help some endangered species.

I have watched a few videos and read a bit about the practice of selling live animals for food in so called 'wet markets'. It makes absolutely horrific watching and reading. The Chinese state-capitalist regime did not learn the lesson from SARS in 2002, which was another outbreak of a different strain of coronavirus which originated in a 'wet market' in a city in the south of China.and caused thousands of deaths in over 70 countries. Instead, when Covid-19 emerged the police arrested the doctor Li Wenliang who reported his concerns to the authorities. The Chinese government destroyed the evidence, repeatedly lied and covered up the news and did not report it to WHO until it was too late, when the virus had spread unchecked to other cities in China and other countries around the world. Li Wenliang has since died from the virus.

The Chinese politburo or whatever it calls itself are despicable criminals and if the damage they have caused to other countries was conventional 'warfare' they would have had to pay reparations just as the Germans did after the two world wars.

Li Wenliang is a hero.

My final thought is that I hope Chinese people in this country do not suffer racist abuse and worse by cretinous neanderthals already emboldened by Brexit.

 

[Bayfox]

2 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I'd say it's harder (well for me anyway)

 

The thought of having four of us cramped up together in a small 3 bed terrace for months on end is a nightmare - especially with a fvcked up OCD teenage daughter.

 

I'd love a bit of 'me' time in isolation rather than tripping over moody family members every other minute.

I guess if you are used to being able to get out and have space, plus have kids with any problems, it wasn't meant at a sweeping statement, I guess we are lucky, I get on very well with my wife and my kids have their own rooms to go to, a garden and a park across the road, privately managed and paid for by the residents so it's not been closed.

 

The kids are definitely finding it harder than me, my lad especially as he's not seen or spoke to his mates in over a week now, my daughter has a phone and most her mates can what's app face call etc, but they are struggling with having to work from home, I've been ok so far, but as I say I like a social pint, 3 or 4 times a week, just for the walk, and to have a chat, love our locals, purely as the crowd in both are friendly and you can always find someone to chat too.

 

1 week down, let's see how the next 2 go.

 

Hope you find a way to manage.

[Chocolate Teapot]

2 minutes ago, The Fox Covert said:

I have watched a few videos and read a bit about the practice of selling live animals for food in so called 'wet markets'. It makes absolutely horrific watching and reading. The Chinese state-capitalist regime did not learn the lesson from SARS in 2002, which was another outbreak of a different strain of coronavirus which originated in a 'wet market' in a city in the south of China.and caused thousands of deaths in over 70 countries. Instead, when Covid-19 emerged the police arrested the doctor Li Wenliang who reported his concerns to the authorities. The Chinese government destroyed the evidence, repeatedly lied and covered up the news and did not report it to WHO until it was too late, when the virus had spread unchecked to other cities in China and other countries around the world. Li Wenliang has since died from the virus.

The Chinese politburo or whatever it calls itself are despicable criminals and if the damage they have caused to other countries was conventional 'warfare' they would have had to pay reparations just as the Germans did after the two world wars.

Li Wenliang is a hero.

My final thought is that I hope Chinese people in this country do not suffer racist abuse and worse by cretinous neanderthals already emboldened by Brexit.

 

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politics/article/dr-li-wenliang-death

[Foxxed]

The state of this thread: desperately trying to direct anger at China.

[Unabomber]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

How did it go for your dad ? 

Went well thanks. Not hearing much from him and it must be tough for him. How about yours?

[StanSP]

Just now, Unabomber said:

Went well thanks. Not hearing much from him and it must be tough for him. How about yours?

Good to hear it went well. 

 

My dad's was much more routine than I thought it was going to be! Was in and out within half hour. 

[st albans fox]

There is so much nonsense about CV and CV related stuff on social media - as ever, truth is going to be the first casualty of war ....... probably from top to bottom ! 

[foxfanazer]

Feel no better today but also no worse so hoping if I have got it it isn't going to affect me too much 

[BKLFox]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

Good thread here.

 

The Chinese and the WHO have a lot to answer for.

Well now I'm really confused Matt because this doesn't fit the narrative that we are all being blindly lead to our deaths by the UK Government and advisors 

[Alf Bentley]

13 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I'd say it's harder (well for me anyway)

 

The thought of having four of us cramped up together in a small 3 bed terrace for months on end is a nightmare - especially with a fvcked up OCD teenage daughter.

 

I'd love a bit of 'me' time in isolation rather than tripping over moody family members every other minute.

 

That sounds tough. Is there anywhere you could go occasionally away from the house, just to get a bit of time alone and a break from the stress? Even if it's just sitting on a bench in the park or somewhere, if the weather's OK?

 

It's funny. My teenage daughter has had ongoing difficulties for some months with social anxiety.....but, for now at least, I'm in the lucky position that the school shutdown has actually made that situation easier. She's able to entertain herself and to communicate electronically with her mates, while not having the social stresses of school. I'm now not having to deal with constant communications with the school and ex-wife over these issues - just have to ensure she keeps a bit of structure to life and does at least some of the work that the school is providing online. Even relations with the ex seem fairly civil for now.

 

Keep your chin up, mate - I'm sure you will, anyway. There will be a good life for the vast majority of us beyond this. I've been trying to look forward to that - imagining future trips away, visits to friends & family etc. Might take a couple of months or many months, and might be a bit different and still subject to certain limitations when it happens.....but there are good times ahead out there! 

 

10 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It’s people like my dad that suffer through all of this enforced isolation. He has severe dementia but still lives at home with carer visits and a district nurse, routine is key to his day to day wellbeing. He cannot understand why I can’t visit, he cannot remember that there is no football every weekend. He is deteriorating fast and I can’t help him. 

 

Sorry to hear about your Dad's difficulties. I can relate to your situation as my Dad was house-bound with mild dementia and Parkinson's latterly. I was overseeing his care and know it meant a lot to him to have regular visits from my brother and myself & a couple of the carers he bonded with (he wasn't so keen on some of them!).

 

Part of me wonders if it might not be better for his overall health if you did visit, even given the risk of you infecting him. But I suppose you've not just got him to think about. I suppose there's the risk of him acquiring an infection from one of the health visitors and passing it on to you and the rest of your family. A tough situation to deal with.

 

Again, although I obviously wish that my folks were still around, I realise that the fact they're not makes this crisis easier for me. Not only do I not have to worry about my Dad, I can only imagine what my Mum would have been like during all this as she was someone who always got anxious, worrying (generally needlessly) about other people.

 

Likewise, I'm lucky in having been working solo from home for years now, so it's less of an adaptation than for someone who's used to all the social aspect of working in a team at an office or site, out and about in the community or whatever. Those years of isolation were a major factor in my marriage breakdown, but make this crisis a bit easier to handle. Look after yourself, mate!

[Guest Markyblue]

9 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Well now I'm really confused Matt because this doesn't fit the narrative that we are all being blindly lead to our deaths by the UK Government and advisors 

You are if you didn't vote for this government and you are not if you voted for it, so much for national unity far to many looking for cheap political shots disguised as genuine concerns. 

 

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, murphy said:

I don't see any benefit in just blaming the Chinese or even punishing them somehow as others have suggested, but surely some kind of pressure needs to be applied for them to seriously look at their trade in exotic meats and traditional medicines.  Perhaps as a silver lining to this, it might help some endangered species.

I think the little people like us blaming the Chinese is immaterial, in reality all we would do is not buy anything with made in China stamped on it, hardly significant, it’s someone like trump who you need to worry about. The US won’t take the aftermath of all this lightly

[Izzy]

10 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

That sounds tough. Is there anywhere you could go occasionally away from the house, just to get a bit of time alone and a break from the stress? Even if it's just sitting on a bench in the park or somewhere, if the weather's OK?

 

It's funny. My teenage daughter has had ongoing difficulties for some months with social anxiety.....but, for now at least, I'm in the lucky position that the school shutdown has actually made that situation easier. She's able to entertain herself and to communicate electronically with her mates, while not having the social stresses of school. I'm now not having to deal with constant communications with the school and ex-wife over these issues - just have to ensure she keeps a bit of structure to life and does at least some of the work that the school is providing online. Even relations with the ex seem fairly civil for now.

 

Keep your chin up, mate - I'm sure you will, anyway. There will be a good life for the vast majority of us beyond this. I've been trying to look forward to that - imagining future trips away, visits to friends & family etc. Might take a couple of months or many months, and might be a bit different and still subject to certain limitations when it happens.....but there are good times ahead out there! 

 

Thanks mate. I'm glad the situation has made things easier for your own daughter.

 

We're lucky that we live out in the sticks so I can go for a walk or a run but that's only 1-2 hours out of 16 a day of freedom. The other 14 hours are hell really.

 

My daughter has now started self harming and her therapy over video conferencing isn't really working now.

 

I'm getting increasingly angry and frustrated and shouting/screaming at her, so I'm a bit worried I'll do something I'll regret.

 

Then I feel guilty because there's guys on here who have elderly relatives who are really struggling and my issues feel trivial in comparison.

 

It's all shit for everyone really and I guess we're all just doing our best day by day.

 

Tough times for sure 

[murphy]

11 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I think the little people like us blaming the Chinese is immaterial, in reality all we would do is not buy anything with made in China stamped on it, hardly significant, it’s someone like trump who you need to worry about. The US won’t take the aftermath of all this lightly

Trump will be gone before the virus is, I think.

[Alf Bentley]

7 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

I'm sure with hindsight the Govt would do things differently but there's no handbook for this and all countries are different.

We can spend our time now, losing our minds by picking over the bones of the mistakes or focus on what's going to work best from now on.

 

Of course, somewhere down the line the Govt must be held to account for past errors. Not now though.

 

I agree with this, despite strong suspicions that we come from opposite ends of the political spectrum ().

 

While this is going on, it's still part of the role of the Opposition to question why certain things are or are not being done & to make alternative suggestions - but in a constructive spirit, as we're all on the same side here, in a sense.

I think that has mostly happened. There's not been much partisan point-scoring on either side, when it comes to the politicians.

 

At times, there has been partisanship and pettiness on social media, as expected - but things haven't been too bad on FT or Facebook, it seems to me (I avoid Twitter so miss the shitefest that is doubtless on there).

 

As you say, there will be a time for the Govt response to be examined - hopefully in a thorough, thoughtful way - but the time for that will be when this is over, or at least under control.

FWIW I'd be very critical of some of the early decision-making & Johnson's early performances, but he and they have improved....in the main (thinking ventilators & testing for NHS staff, that's the hesitation).

 

To be fair to Boris, he's been thrust into a role that he's absolutely not used to - the sombre, clear-speaking, authoritative leader for hard times.

That's not how he's made his name. He's always been the amusing, idiosyncratic, optimistic, imprecise purple prose guy offering bright & prosperous days....the absolute opposite of what is required right now. But latterly he has shown some ability to shift to the different role required of him - some people have been having strong words in his ear or giving him some intensive training, I suspect! I still want the fvcker out of Downing Street.....but not just now!