Corona Virus

[WigstonWanderer]

Criminal lack of planning from governments around the world when the possibility of a pandemic, its consequences and likely development had been foretold by many including Bill Gates and the BBC. I doubt those responsible will ever be held to account.

[WigstonWanderer]

USA have become the first country in the world to crack 1,000 deaths per day. Trump must be so proud.

[Leicester_Loyal]

With the tubes and other public services being reduced yet still packed, I can't see the number of deaths reducing massively for a while yet. I think the partial lockdown will have helped lower numbers, but nowhere near enough.

[Guest Markyblue]

5 hours ago, Fktf said:

You're right that the measure will always be subject to error, as no test is 100 percent accurate. My point is we have way more than 30000 cases at the moment, which makes the death rate look bad. We're probably between 1 and 2 million cases 

Everything ive seen from scientists seems to point to 1 death in a 1000 infections so i think your looking at 2.5 million. 

[Merging Cultures]

9 hours ago, st albans fox said:

I believe that the majority of those who go onto a ventilator don’t come out of this. Normal respiratory disease patients going onto a ventilator have a 30% mortality rate. Initial assessments of cv19 from Wuhan was 90%.  

obviously data is hard to come by because some patients  are on ventilators for weeks before dying .... 

 

I get that ....my response was a tad flippant, especially on the ventilator aspect. It does irk me that some people make a big deal that those with influence automatically get special treatment ....... of course they do ..... it’s not rocket science ! 

 

 

I've mentioned the company before, Athersys have a therapy that has been tested for ARDS and is about to be launched on a larger scale. I really hope it helps as many people as possible as it cuts the mortality rate in half.

[Bert]

The thing about this is that it gets worse before it’s gonna get better. The positive is that we aren’t actually all that far away from the peak. 

[The Guvnor]

9 hours ago, z-layrex said:

Another day, another mental shitstorm. Its hard to describe it to anyone who hasn't worked in an ICU before, but all I can say is that it's a ****ing warzone. It still doesnt seem real, like everything is a movie or a dream and you'll wake up soon, it's that surreal.

 

None of us ever thought it could be like this.

Whatever you're being paid the gov't should double it.

Respect.

[Strokes]

19 minutes ago, Bert said:

The thing about this is that it gets worse before it’s gonna get better. The positive is that we aren’t actually all that far away from the peak. 

We have at least another week of rising figures, maybe more.

[SpacedX]

10 hours ago, Wymsey said:

This virus in emoticons:

This is almost like the Kubler-Ross stages in emoji. 

[SpacedX]

10 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

That’s not what the who said.

 

 

Edited 2 April 2020 by Line-X
Then I saw this...

[SpacedX]

10 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Yeah but they also said they wanted to die before they got old, so can you trust them.

^

[Guest Fktf]

3 hours ago, Markyblue said:

Everything ive seen from scientists seems to point to 1 death in a 1000 infections so i think your looking at 2.5 million. 

My mistake, this is a more accurate estimate. Couldn't be bothered to look up the death figures, and what I had in memory was clearly out of date! Only by a day at least.. 

[whoareyaaa]

makes you wonder https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/bill-gates-epidemic-pandemic-preparedness-ebola-covid-19/

 

In October 2019, weeks before the COVID-19 outbreak was identified in China, the World Economic Forum, in conjunction the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, hosted a high-level simulation exercise for pandemic preparedness and response.

The exercise brought together business, government, security and public health leaders to address a hypothetical global pandemic scenario. It also included a live virtual experience to engage global stakeholders and members of the public.

 

2 months later there is a pandemic.  

 

other things to note in 2015 he said “Next time, we might not be so lucky. You can have a virus where people feel well enough while they’re infectious that they get on a plane, or they go to a market,” he said. 

 

To deal with the next epidemic, Gates has suggested we need the following:

Simulations, or “germ games” to see how well leaders are prepared.

Edited 2 April 2020 by whoareyaaa

[RumbleFox]

11 hours ago, pazzerfox said:

No no, i totally get where you're coming from.  I'm not a conspiracy theorist by the way, i merely got sent his video and thought it might be worth sharing to see what my fellow foxes thought of it.  It did however make me think a bit more about certain things.  I don't have a deep enough understanding of climate change or the coronavirus virus to have a reasoned debate about it, and i wouldn't just blindly believe a man who offers one side of complex subjects, it just offered a complete opposite of what I'd been told in the mainstream.

I understand what you are saying and I have watched the video in full but I just can't get behind it.  I am not usually a fan of ad hominem arguments but David Icke genuinely believes in Lizard people, is a climate change denier and he's been craving something like this for a long time.  As I said, that doesn't mean he is wrong in the coronavirus case but his history of beliefs should certainly be taken into account when listening to him speak about a subject.  He has also shifted his terminology of the "elite" and now calls it the 1%.  Like religion, his words and descriptors tend to shift with advances made by other people then he fits the present to look like his predictions.  The problem with "arguing the opposite of the mainstream" is the same problem as creationists "teaching the controversy" of the Big Bang in schools.  By arguing that they should teach kids about creationism because it just offers an "alternate viewpoint from that of the mainstream" they are giving both ideas equal standing where in fact one has 0% basis in any scientific fact.  Not all controversies or "alternatives" hold equal weight or should be given your equal time.

 

Also his talk of the virus not being as serious as some claim is dangerous and irresponsible and could put people at risk of death.  I would rather listen to a doctor than a former goalkeeper and someone who claimed he was the son of God on the matter of a virus.  This is anecdotal of course but my partner's best friend's father died of corona two days ago (he was in his 60s and fairly fit) and people like Icke are putting people at risk by telling people not to believe the experts.  He knows nothing, he talks around issues and makes himself sound smarter than he is.  Sorry it drives me mad even listening to him.

 

Studies have shown people who believe conspiracy theories tend to have certain traits....... "These people tend to be more suspicious, untrusting, eccentric, needing to feel special, with a tendency to regard the world as an inherently dangerous place," ........... "They are also more likely to detect meaningful patterns where they might not exist. People who are reluctant to believe in conspiracy theories tend to have the opposite qualities." and Icke fits every one.

 

I hate the mainstream media, I think they are responsible for many of the ills in our society and they clearly do look to shape the national consciousness and lead us to think in certain ways and we should always be wary of what they tell us and read as much as we can from numerous sources.  I spend more time listening to conspiracy theorists and religious fundamentalists (I am an atheist) than I do people I agree with because I think it is important to listen to views I do not personally hold.  However I believe the danger is that many conspiracists suddenly lump in experts and scientists with "the mainstream" and start believing the world is flat or so on and I genuinely believe the current climate where experts and scientists are not believed because some guy on YouTube shouts louder than them and "knows the real truth" is dangerous.

 

Look at the anti-vaxxers, people have died because of their conspiracy bullshit.  Every scientist in the world bar about 3 states vaccines are vital yet some nobber misconstrues and misuses a half study and suddenly vaccines are evil, viruses we have not seen in 50 years reappear and children die.

 

Anyway, I should change my name to Ramblefox sorry.  Everyone should listen to conspiracies and everyone has the right to believe in them but they must understand that people will challenge them and that simply saying "you're a fool to believe the mainstream" is not a valid argument in response.  I need to go outside more, I'm a dullard in general but this current lockdown is making me even worse.  Sorry everyone.  Sorry mum.  X

 

Edited 2 April 2020 by RumbleFox

[SpacedX]

41 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

makes you wonder https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/bill-gates-epidemic-pandemic-preparedness-ebola-covid-19/

 

In October 2019, weeks before the COVID-19 outbreak was identified in China, the World Economic Forum, in conjunction the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, hosted a high-level simulation exercise for pandemic preparedness and response.

The exercise brought together business, government, security and public health leaders to address a hypothetical global pandemic scenario. It also included a live virtual experience to engage global stakeholders and members of the public.

 

2 months later there is a pandemic.  

 

other things to note in 2015 he said “Next time, we might not be so lucky. You can have a virus where people feel well enough while they’re infectious that they get on a plane, or they go to a market,” he said. 

 

To deal with the next epidemic, Gates has suggested we need the following:

Simulations, or “germ games” to see how well leaders are prepared.

Makes you wonder what? 

[RumbleFox]

On 31/03/2020 at 18:46, worthosoriginals said:

He's gone a bit quiet about lots of us are lizard people under human skin,  plus the other cracker he came up with, about the moon being hollowed out and now full of aliens. How does he know that? Has be been in his own rocket and drilled into the moon, I just doubt it. 

He comes out with stuff to sell his books, the gullibles are lapping it up. 

Exactly.  He talks about "the system" benefitting from this but the only person I have seen since this started who seems to be enjoying and making money from it is him.

[Bobby Hundreds]

https://gabgoh.github.io/COVID/index.html Nice little epidemiological calculator. This is exactly the sort of model Imperial etc will be using. 

[messerschmitt]

15 hours ago, Izzy said:

I'm a bit of a minority case Deb which is why I'll get nothing currently.

Most self employed people are classed as Sole Traders and can get support.

Most business owners are Ltd companies and employ staff and they can also get support.

Then you'e got self employed people like me who are also registered as a Ltd company who fall in the middle and get nowt (currently) as we only pay ourselves a minimum tax free salary and take the rest as dividends (which can vary month to month)

My own choice to be a Ltd company on my Accountants advice and having been called a 'Tax Dodger' a few times on here, I doubt I'll get much sympathy  

Hi Izzy, genuine question, what support is there for sole traders, I think I'm classed as this, I'm self employed delivering advertising magazines and leaflets, as of last week the company that I collected from and got payed by, closed until further notice, so like you I've no income at all.

[whoareyaaa]

17 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Makes you wonder what? 

If it's a man made virus 

[Heathrow fox]

15 minutes ago, RumbleFox said:

Exactly.  He talks about "the system" benefitting from this but the only person I have seen since this started who seems to be enjoying and making money from it is him.

I think the big corporations might come out the other side of this relatively untouched.Or even stronger.

[Beechey]

3 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

If it's a man made virus 

Yeah, it’s not

[Strokes]

6 minutes ago, Beechey said:

Yeah, it’s not

It was a bloody woman wasn’t it? 

[RumbleFox]

7 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

I think the big corporations might come out the other side of this relatively untouched.Or even stronger.

Yes of course you are right.  Doesn't make anything he has said valid though.  

[Ollie93]

9 minutes ago, Beechey said:

Yeah, it’s not

Prove it 

[Alf Bentley]

19 minutes ago, messerschmitt said:

Hi Izzy, genuine question, what support is there for sole traders, I think I'm classed as this, I'm self employed delivering advertising magazines and leaflets, as of last week the company that I collected from and got payed by, closed until further notice, so like you I've no income at all.

 

Details here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-grant-through-the-coronavirus-covid-19-self-employment-income-support-scheme

 

If you don't qualify for this (e.g. no 2018-19 self-assessment tax return submitted), I presume applying for Universal Credit is the main option, though there may be others. 

 

Edit: If you are eligible, as the link says, you cannot apply yet. HMRC will contact you, with payments due in June, I think.....though there's political pressure on the Govt to arrange for payments earlier.

 

 

Edited 2 April 2020 by Alf Bentley