Corona Virus

[Sir Shep]

Great, the smoking gun has appeared that so many on here were desperate for. I’m not sure if it’s true or not but i believe it's been denied. 

[l444ry]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2241082-uks-coronavirus-science-advice-wont-be-published-until-pandemic-ends/

 

[Carl the Llama]

16 minutes ago, Sir Shep said:

Great, the smoking gun has appeared that so many on here were desperate for. I’m not sure if it’s true or not but i believe it's been denied. 

As many have pointed out over the past few weeks the smoking gun was the inaction all the way through February with nothing being done when just from following the news of other countries you could tell we were on the brink of something major.

 

This isn't finding a smoking gun. this is taking a closer look at the gun and seeing the names of all the killer's previous victims scratched into the handle.

[Strokes]

I’ve only scanned the article this morning as it’s quite long and I’ve not had time yet. It’s my sons birthday and I’m attempting to make it nice considering the situation.

I’m going to approach this as if it’s all true and give my feelings if that were the case. 
I could understand him missing one or two meetings, he has other capable cabinet ministers and aides that should be able to fill in but 5 is unacceptable and a dereliction of duty. Some bits in the article seemed unnecessary, like why does it matter that he was on holiday when China declared it an emergency?

I really need to catch up on the rest but it seems to be quite damning.

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, EastAnglianFox said:

Somebody at some point today is going to quote that article aren't they? 

[ScouseFox]

tories 

 

:bin: 

[Dahnsouff]

labour

 

:debt:

 

[foxile5]

Doubtless there'll be the usual screeching defense of Boris from his cult of personality members. 

 

This is an apolitical situation in many ways. Whomever is in charge needs scrutiny and, if not leading as appropriately, should be open to criticism. Unlike the usual landscape of politics, this directly costs lives and politicians shouldn't be let off the hook because people are playing a team sport in their heads. 

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, foxile5 said:

Doubtless there'll be the usual screeching defense of Boris from his cult of personality members. 

 

This is an apolitical situation in many ways. Whomever is in charge needs scrutiny and, if not leading as appropriately, should be open to criticism. Unlike the usual landscape of politics, this directly costs lives and politicians shouldn't be let off the hook because people are playing a team sport in their heads. 

This. A million times this.  Keel haul the Tories by all means, but do once we have the clear air to do so. Anything else if selfish and self serving point scoring.

[CosbehFox]

24 minutes ago, Strokes said:

like why does it matter that he was on holiday when China declared it an emergency?

Away from the CV pandemic but I believe this is the time period he went missing during the floods suffered across the country. 

[Guest MattP]

No point saying anything else, the report is pretty terrible and some serious questions are going to have to be answered by those in charge. I'm not particularly bothered about not attending meetings providing people are fully briefed but the health secretary in particular seems to have been totally off the ball.

 

Least it gives the anti-Boris mob some decent ammo though so they don't have create faux outrage, spread edited videos or just make shit up for at least a couple of weeks.

[Izzy]

At least everyone’s adhering to Marks message I suppose 

[SemperEadem]

Just now, Izzy said:

At least everyone’s adhering to Marks message I suppose 

I mean I think these findings are pretty important to discuss.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Izzy said:

At least everyone’s adhering to Marks message I suppose 

I tried to be as apolitical as I could and dissed the mechanism of central govt rather than any particular side 

 

my character assessment of the prime minister isn’t an opinion ...... it’s what he is. not particularly a secret ........

[CosbehFox]

10 minutes ago, MattP said:

No point saying anything else, the report is pretty terrible and some serious questions are going to have to be answered by those in charge. I'm not particularly bothered about not attending meetings providing people are fully briefed but the health secretary in particular seems to have been totally off the ball.

 

Least it gives the anti-Boris mob some decent ammo though so they don't have create faux outrage, spread edited videos or just make shit up for at least a couple of weeks.

He’s been going around latter end of the week saying cancer treatment hasn’t been affected......

[ScouseFox]

6 minutes ago, Izzy said:

At least everyone’s adhering to Marks message I suppose 

hahahaha

[Guesty]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

At least everyone’s adhering to Marks message I suppose 

 

I think something like this unavoidable to talk about. It's when it gets into the pointless insults like the Dianne Abbott & Priti Patel argument where the posts have nothing at all to do with Coronavirus that it becomes unhelpful and annoying. But I understand what you mean - even if it starts off sensibly it always spirals. 

[Mike Oxlong]

One thing I do know is that if Dianne Abbott had her hand on the tiller the reported infection and mortality rates would be significantly lower. 

[Guest MattP]

38 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

tories 

 

:bin: 

With such coherent arguments it's hard to see how your side don't win elections.

[davieG]

10 hours ago, Guesty said:

It'll be behind a paywall though - if you click on the tweet it drops down into a few other tweets with the main points (when you click on show this thread).

 

Doesn't look good for him (I've not read it yet). But, The Sunday Times is more of a conservative leaning paper. I mean it's basically owned by Murdoch.

 

 

According to Gove he doesn't attend them all, they are led by the Minister responsible for the main item on the agenda who then reports back to the Prime Minister.

[ScouseFox]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

With such coherent arguments it's hard to see how your side don't win elections.

hahaha good one mate haha 

[Guest MattP]

17 minutes ago, Izzy said:

At least everyone’s adhering to Marks message I suppose 

To be fair this does need to be spoken about, its clearly a respectable source with some pretty damning information about the response of the government.

 

Some of the bullshit we've seen over the last couple of weeks has just been nonsense from the professional FBFE twitter types though isn't.

[reynard]

1 hour ago, rachhere said:

I just can't understand how they didn't catch onto the fact that this was serious. Early Feb at work we were already discussing amongst ourselves the possibility of the university I work at temporarily closing the campus, and I was already starting to bulk cook food to put into the freezer. 

 

I think a really significant finding in the Times investigation though was the failings to act on any of the recommendations of the 2016 assessment of how prepared we were for a pandemic. 

 

 

 

 

Well the explanation starts with B and ends in T.

Lots of important meeting were either cancelled or shelved.

[Alf Bentley]

30 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I’ve only scanned the article this morning as it’s quite long and I’ve not had time yet. It’s my sons birthday and I’m attempting to make it nice considering the situation.

I’m going to approach this as if it’s all true and give my feelings if that were the case. 
I could understand him missing one or two meetings, he has other capable cabinet ministers and aides that should be able to fill in but 5 is unacceptable and a dereliction of duty. Some bits in the article seemed unnecessary, like why does it matter that he was on holiday when China declared it an emergency?

I really need to catch up on the rest but it seems to be quite damning.

 

Marr asked Gove about a couple of specific allegations from the article this morning. Namely, Johnson not attending 5 successive Cobra meetings and the UK sending PPE to China.

 

On the face of it, Gove's replies made decent points:

- The PM doesn't normally attend such Cobra meetings in a specific field (health here); they're normally led by the relevant minister

- The PPE was sent to China when Covid-19 was rife there but hadn't yet spread here - and since then China has sent us a lot more PPE than we ever sent them (interesting).

 

But the article highlights wider issues that were already out there:

- From January, wasn't there a growing volume of information about the potential gravity of this crisis? If so, even if the PM didn't normally attend health Cobras, shouldn't he have done so? Was it an example of the govt generally not taking the issue seriously enough quickly enough?

- Again, it's quite reasonable for PPE to be channeled to where it's most needed internationally at a given time - sensible cooperation & use of resources internationally. But that doesn't answer the wider question raised in the article as to why not only there was a shortage initially but, more importantly, it has taken so long to procure PPE since then. Again, that speaks to a failure to recognise the gravity of the crisis early enough.

 

It's interesting that the article identifies a divergence in how the unfolding crisis was viewed in Asia and in the West. Namely, that in Asia they saw this as a more serious version of SARS, whereas in the West (not only in the UK) it was assumed to be similar to a flu pandemic, so less dangerous. Indeed, the UK's pandemic planning, such as it was, based itself on a flu pandemic. The responses and comparative impact in Asia and Europe/UK/USA do give that claim credibility....

 

Hope you have a good birthday with your son. Strange, potentially disturbing times for kids. Particularly younger kids, I suspect. I'm comparatively lucky in mine being a teenager who spent a lot of time alone in her room anyway - must be very hard for anyone with younger kids used to playing out or socialising a lot, and less able to understand what's happening and why it's dragging on for so long. 

[reynard]

Well, if true, the article is extremely damaging to the government. I notice that Gove's response does not suggest that it is that far from the truth,.

 

The first, primary and most important thing a government must do is protect the lives of the people. Any goverrnment that fails to do that risks losing the moral mandate to govern.