Corona Virus

[foxile5]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

Matt Hancock just said they have given 20 million to the Oxford lab, and after working with the NHRA (sp?) to get certification, they begin human trials on Thursday...

I don't know what the Oxford process is haha. 

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, foxile5 said:

I don't know what the Oxford process is haha. 

Not sure, but is it the process where they don’t need a live virus and the vaccine is developed straight from the genetic code, something China provided very early on I thought I heard.

[yorkie1999]

6 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Trialing the Oxford process from Thursday   

Cambridge university think that the mmr jab could build an immunity to covid 19, and hence why a lot of children aren't getting it.

[surrifox]

Still waiting for one of the hacks to ask a question about the possible UK medical breakthrough announced by Hancock at his presser 

[rachhere]

31 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Matt Hancock just said they have given 20 million to the Oxford lab, and after working with the NHRA (sp?) to get certification, they begin human trials on Thursday...

Probably the MHRA - Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency. 

They do seem pretty confident at Oxford. I just had to double check what I could remember, but they already have a list of people who have offered to participate in the study, and are aiming at 500 patients: https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/17/university-of-oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-aims-to-have-500-people-in-testing-by-mid-may/

 

That's a reasonable number. In a former life I worked in advanced phase leukaemia trials, and we had about 2,000 patients, leading to standardised treatment. 

Edited 21 April 2020 by rachhere

[Freeman's Wharfer]

7 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

I am particularly happy that the government is following the advice of the best experts available to them. I don't expect them to get everything right obviously, as we are experiencing a never seen before event. But yes, I'm happy that they believe without doubt that they are making the right decisions. 

 

 

I'm not concerned by anything written in a paper owned by Murdoch, most of which has been shown to be rubbish since. I definitely wouldn't refer to anything they printed as 'findings'. 

 

Hope that answers your questions

 

 

I find that interesting. You seem to be very trusting of your government: that if they say they are acting on the advice they are given from the best experts you believe them and that if they say the Times findings are ‘rubbish’ you again believe them.

 

Is there anything you think they have got wrong or that you have concerns about or on a scale of 1-10 are you a 10 happy?

[FoxesDeb]

17 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

I find that interesting. You seem to be very trusting of your government: that if they say they are acting on the advice they are given from the best experts you believe them and that if they say the Times findings are ‘rubbish’ you again believe them.

 

Is there anything you think they have got wrong or that you have concerns about or on a scale of 1-10 are you a 10 happy?

 I have to say that I'm finding this questioning a bit odd, but nevertheless I'll answer, again, but again, it will be brief. 

 

Yes I trust my government, I voted for them and as yet I have no reason to believe that they are not acting on the advice they are given by the experts. 

 

I don't believe everything I read in the media, and certainly not The Times. As I have already pointed out, most of the article written on Sunday has been proven to be false, so that kind of proves my point don't you think? But then I'm guessing from your post that you think that The Times are right, and the government are lying? 

 

As to what they have got wrong, well I don't know yet, obviously. Ask me again when this is over and I may have an answer for you. 

 

My concerns at present or what they've got wrong? I'm not sure that the Madrid fans being allowed to Liverpool was the best idea, but I'm sure that will be looked into. 

 

Otherwise yes I'm happy. You really want me to put it on a scale? 

 

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

 I have to say that I'm finding this questioning a bit odd, but nevertheless I'll answer, again, but again, it will be brief. 

 

Yes I trust my government, I voted for them and as yet I have no reason to believe that they are not acting on the advice they are given by the experts. 

 

I don't believe everything I read in the media, and certainly not The Times. As I have already pointed out, most of the article written on Sunday has been proven to be false, so that kind of proves my point don't you think? But then I'm guessing from your post that you think that The Times are right, and the government are lying? 

 

As to what they have got wrong, well I don't know yet, obviously. Ask me again when this is over and I may have an answer for you. 

 

My concerns at present or what they've got wrong? I'm not sure that the Madrid fans being allowed to Liverpool was the best idea, but I'm sure that will be looked into. 

 

Otherwise yes I'm happy. You really want me to put it on a scale? 

 

I don’t know about you debs but I score them at a commendable 6.7689432465 out of ten. Give or take.

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

I find that interesting. You seem to be very trusting of your government: that if they say they are acting on the advice they are given from the best experts you believe them and that if they say the Times findings are ‘rubbish’ you again believe them.

 

Is there anything you think they have got wrong or that you have concerns about or on a scale of 1-10 are you a 10 happy?

Shouldn’t this be the de facto position? Or are you to some degree holding a grudge, if as seems likely, it is not the political party you wish to be managing during the crisis. I certainly did not want Brexit, but I accept the decision as it was the majority position.

 

Political statement semi-redacted.

Edited 21 April 2020 by Dahnsouff

[st albans fox]

3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Filling NHS frontline workers with despair is a great strategy!  Well done the media, again.

 

For all we know there is stuff coming in from EU countries only becuase we have agreed to keep normal movements open.  on Sunday everyone got upset about 250k items to China, while they have sent us 12M plus.

 

Edit:  According to Twitter Veenak were asking £2.30 for something usually costed at £0.10 ea.  

can’t find any detail on that tweet but I can assure you that only a single vinyl glove now costs less than 10p out of China!   Nitrile gloves have gone above 13-15 cents each today.  A month ago they were half that. 
 

 

2 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Cambridge university think that the mmr jab could build an immunity to covid 19, and hence why a lot of children aren't getting it.

BBC had something on their myth buster section the other day ..... I assumed the theory had been widely dissed so didn’t read it ......

[Freeman's Wharfer]

52 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

 I have to say that I'm finding this questioning a bit odd, but nevertheless I'll answer, again, but again, it will be brief. 

 

Yes I trust my government, I voted for them and as yet I have no reason to believe that they are not acting on the advice they are given by the experts. 

 

I don't believe everything I read in the media, and certainly not The Times. As I have already pointed out, most of the article written on Sunday has been proven to be false, so that kind of proves my point don't you think? But then I'm guessing from your post that you think that The Times are right, and the government are lying? 

 

As to what they have got wrong, well I don't know yet, obviously. Ask me again when this is over and I may have an answer for you. 

 

My concerns at present or what they've got wrong? I'm not sure that the Madrid fans being allowed to Liverpool was the best idea, but I'm sure that will be looked into. 

 

Otherwise yes I'm happy. You really want me to put it on a scale? 

 

I’m just interested. We obviously have opposing outlooks on the current situation and you seemed to have been vocal but hadn’t offered much reasoning so I was interested to understand it.

 

For what it’s worth, I don’t believe everything in The Times article but I don’t believe every failing detailed in it is without substance just because the government contests it - they kind of have to do that.
 

Do I trust the government has done the best job it could have with this? Nope. And do I trust that everything my government tells me? Also nope.

 

I think that’s a result of the way I see politics to be: a bit of a closed boys club, where the wealthy elite perpetuate their own superiority to us ‘ordinary folk’ and those who may be best for the job may never have the chance to do it. That’s regardless of political party even though I have my preference there too.

 

So I guess my opinion on Coronavirus and our handling of it is formed by a multitude of things. Scientific experts I hear speak in the news (not just those advising the government currently), political commentators, my own reaction to the death toll and perception of how those numbers compare to other countries, hearing a cross-section of thoughts and opinions from fiends/colleagues/family/an Internet forum. My point is that I try to form my own opinion independent of pre-existing biases and based on my own reasoning and do not see it as “I like/dislike this party or politician and so I like/dislike the approach”.

 

I’m also always interested to hear when someone is happy with the handling and response thus far, when that potentially changes? Is it only after the adjudication of an official inquiry says something was wrong? When we compare so clearly unfavourably to other countries? Is it when the death toll reaches a certain point? 30,000 deaths? 50,000? 60,000? 70,000?

 

Where is that tipping point? Or is it just that there can never have been a better way because this was an unprecedented situation and everyone tried their best?

[Parafox]

On shift today. Unusually quiet but 3 cardiac/respiratory arrests in succession. All elderly, one in a care home with a DNAR (Do Not Attempt Resus). The second one, the family accepted that what we could do was futile as he had a long term life limiting condition so we didn't start any resus. They just weren't sure how to manage his end of life as there were no formal plans in place.

Very next job, a male stopped breathing. We get info on our data terminals in our vehicles. This stated "100 yr old male not breathing". I go, a crew goes, I get there minutes behind them expecting a non-resus situation. When I get out of my car, one of the crew whos in a simple mask and apron (soft PPE), comes out of the house. I mouth "what's the situation"? He starts to put on the full PPE, coverall, respirator hood, gloves, overshoes. "His daughter wants us to work on him", he replies, so I get my gear on and go in. His crewmate is doing basic CPR.The daughter is hysterical. We look at each other and agree with nods, that we will do the full cardiac arrest protocol, even though we know it is very unlikely to work and by doing CPR we're breaking his ribs and for what? 

I try to insert a tube into his airway but he's had throat cancer and I cant get one in place. I try to put a cannula into a vein but he is so frail I can't find a vein big enough or visible enough. 

So he has no patent airway, he has no IV access for drugs. His daughter is pleading, "is he breathing, is he alive. Please, he can't be gone, please".

We continue CPR for a while after the daughter's brother in law and her sister arrive. They are calm and understand the situation and take his daughter into another room so that we can finalise our attempts on him.

Again, we quietly clear all our stuff away, put her dad back in bed (he had been moved to the floor so we could do CPR) and go and talk and explain what will happen next with him.

One of the first questions we get asked is "was it Corona".

It wasn't. But the level of fear of this virus is affecting people in the deepest and scariest way.

Edited 21 April 2020 by Parafox

[Freeman's Wharfer]

38 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Shouldn’t this be the de facto position? Or are you to some degree holding a grudge, if as seems likely, it is not the political party you wish to be managing during the crisis. I certainly did not want Brexit, but I accept the decision as it was the majority position.

 

Political statement semi-redacted.

No it shouldn’t be the de facto position.

 

I can turn on Channel 4 News any night of the week right now and they are interviewing someone at the top of their field who is offering constructive criticism of the government’s response.

 

They may not have the full disclosure that the advisors in role advising the government have, granted. But this is - and should not be - a closed shop where only one opinion matters because they were appointed to the role.

 

You will never please all of the people all of the time but there are a enough reasoned and qualified dissenting voices (who are also calling out what other countries are doing well) to tell me that in that community of subject matter experts there is not consensus that we’re doing as well as we could/should be.

 

Nothing about political parties, grudges or the like. That’s an easy way to bat away criticism (“well you would say that as you’re not on our team”): this is way bigger than political party preference right now.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

No it shouldn’t be the de facto position.

 

I can turn on Channel 4 News any night of the week right now and they are interviewing someone at the top of their field who is offering constructive criticism of the government’s response.

 

They may not have the full disclosure that the advisors in role advising the government have, granted. But this is - and should not be - a closed shop where only one opinion matters because they were appointed to the role.

 

You will never please all of the people all of the time but there are a enough reasoned and qualified dissenting voices (who are also calling out what other countries are doing well) to tell me that in that community of subject matter experts there is not consensus that we’re doing as well as we could/should be.

 

Nothing about political parties, grudges or the like. That’s an easy way to bat away criticism (“well you would say that as you’re not on our team”): this is way bigger than political party preference right now.

Fair play, but to be a contrarian, you can find experts to contradict most viewpoints, and you yourself have suggested that the information available to government is likely out of reach to most commentators.
 

It’s a personal choice to favour the positive, what I would personally see as a unifying outlook. This is not a dig, I do not know you, your demeanour, only your sublime choice of football club, and a good line in discussion. 

[Izzy]

15 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

Or is it just that there can never have been a better way because this was an unprecedented situation and everyone tried their best?

This

[Izzy]

19 minutes ago, Parafox said:

On shift today. Unusually quiet but 3 cardiac/respiratory arrests in succession. All elderly, one in a care home with a DNAR (Do Not Attempt Resus). The second one, the family accepted that what we could do was futile as he had a long term life limiting condition so we didn't start any resus. They just weren't sure how to manage his end of life as there were no formal plans in place.

Very next job, a male stopped breathing. We get info on our data terminals in our vehicles. This stated "100 yr old male not breathing". I go, a crew goes, I get there minutes behind them expecting a non-resus situation. When I get out of my car, one of the crew whos in a simple mask and apron (soft PPE), comes out of the house. I mouth "what's the situation"? He starts to put on the full PPE, coverall, respirator hood, gloves, overshoes. "His daughter wants us to work on him", he replies, so I get my gear on and go in. His crewmate is doing basic CPR.The daughter is hysterical. We look at each other and agree with nods, that we will do the full cardiac arrest protocol, even though we know it is very unlikely to work and by doing CPR we're breaking his ribs and for what? 

I try to insert a tube into his airway but he's had throat cancer and I cant get one in place. I try to put a cannula into a vein but he is so frail I can't find a vein big enough or visible enough. 

So he has no patent airway, he has no IV access for drugs. His daughter is pleading, "is he breathing, is he alive. Please, he can't be gone, please".

We continue CPR for a while after the daughter's brother in law and her sister arrive. They are calm and understand the situation and take his daughter into another room so that we can finalise our attempts on him.

Again, we quietly clear all our stuff away, put her dad back in bed (he had been moved to the floor so we could do CPR) and go and talk and explain what will happen next with him.

One of the first questions we get asked is "was it Corona".

It wasn't. But the level of fear of this virus is affecting people in the deepest and scariest way.

Fackin el mate 

 

Your posts always put things into perspective on here.

[Thefox81]

33 minutes ago, Parafox said:

On shift today. Unusually quiet but 3 cardiac/respiratory arrests in succession. All elderly, one in a care home with a DNAR (Do Not Attempt Resus). The second one, the family accepted that what we could do was futile as he had a long term life limiting condition so we didn't start any resus. They just weren't sure how to manage his end of life as there were no formal plans in place.

Very next job, a male stopped breathing. We get info on our data terminals in our vehicles. This stated "100 yr old male not breathing". I go, a crew goes, I get there minutes behind them expecting a non-resus situation. When I get out of my car, one of the crew whos in a simple mask and apron (soft PPE), comes out of the house. I mouth "what's the situation"? He starts to put on the full PPE, coverall, respirator hood, gloves, overshoes. "His daughter wants us to work on him", he replies, so I get my gear on and go in. His crewmate is doing basic CPR.The daughter is hysterical. We look at each other and agree with nods, that we will do the full cardiac arrest protocol, even though we know it is very unlikely to work and by doing CPR we're breaking his ribs and for what? 

I try to insert a tube into his airway but he's had throat cancer and I cant get one in place. I try to put a cannula into a vein but he is so frail I can't find a vein big enough or visible enough. 

So he has no patent airway, he has no IV access for drugs. His daughter is pleading, "is he breathing, is he alive. Please, he can't be gone, please".

We continue CPR for a while after the daughter's brother in law and her sister arrive. They are calm and understand the situation and take his daughter into another room so that we can finalise our attempts on him.

Again, we quietly clear all our stuff away, put her dad back in bed (he had been moved to the floor so we could do CPR) and go and talk and explain what will happen next with him.

One of the first questions we get asked is "was it Corona".

It wasn't. But the level of fear of this virus is affecting people in the deepest and scariest way.

You are just a hero. Ive said it many times before as well as continuing to say it THANK YOU 💙💙💙

[FoxesDeb]

54 minutes ago, Freeman's Wharfer said:

I’m just interested. We obviously have opposing outlooks on the current situation and you seemed to have been vocal but hadn’t offered much reasoning so I was interested to understand it.

 

For what it’s worth, I don’t believe everything in The Times article but I don’t believe every failing detailed in it is without substance just because the government contests it - they kind of have to do that.
 

Do I trust the government has done the best job it could have with this? Nope. And do I trust that everything my government tells me? Also nope.

 

I think that’s a result of the way I see politics to be: a bit of a closed boys club, where the wealthy elite perpetuate their own superiority to us ‘ordinary folk’ and those who may be best for the job may never have the chance to do it. That’s regardless of political party even though I have my preference there too.

 

So I guess my opinion on Coronavirus and our handling of it is formed by a multitude of things. Scientific experts I hear speak in the news (not just those advising the government currently), political commentators, my own reaction to the death toll and perception of how those numbers compare to other countries, hearing a cross-section of thoughts and opinions from fiends/colleagues/family/an Internet forum. My point is that I try to form my own opinion independent of pre-existing biases and based on my own reasoning and do not see it as “I like/dislike this party or politician and so I like/dislike the approach”.

 

I’m also always interested to hear when someone is happy with the handling and response thus far, when that potentially changes? Is it only after the adjudication of an official inquiry says something was wrong? When we compare so clearly unfavourably to other countries? Is it when the death toll reaches a certain point? 30,000 deaths? 50,000? 60,000? 70,000?

 

Where is that tipping point? Or is it just that there can never have been a better way because this was an unprecedented situation and everyone tried their best?

So, I'm interested now too. What would the government need to say in rebuttal to the points made up by The Times for you to believe them? They have refuted much of it, and given their version of the circumstances surrounding it, but you believe that they've done it 'because they have to'? I disagree, I don't think they had to do anything, in fact I don't remember a time when a newspaper article has been responded too so articulately and so emphatically. 

 

I'm with you on the second point I've highlighted, but I'm not naive enough to think that my political bias doesn't play a part. 

 

I'm honestly not sure when my opinion will change, I really can't imagine that it will. Going back to point two, I'd like to think that I'd still be happy with the way things have been dealt with regardless of who is in charge based on my belief that we are relying on the best experts we have. 

 

And on your last point, in my opinion the answer is pretty much yes. I really can't comprehend anyone, of whichever political persuasion, not doing their best right now.

[Nod.E]

13 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

So, I'm interested now too. What would the government need to say in rebuttal to the points made up by The Times for you to believe them? They have refuted much of it, and given their version of the circumstances surrounding it, but you believe that they've done it 'because they have to'? I disagree, I don't think they had to do anything, in fact I don't remember a time when a newspaper article has been responded too so articulately and so emphatically. 

 

I'm with you on the second point I've highlighted, but I'm not naive enough to think that my political bias doesn't play a part. 

 

I'm honestly not sure when my opinion will change, I really can't imagine that it will. Going back to point two, I'd like to think that I'd still be happy with the way things have been dealt with regardless of who is in charge based on my belief that we are relying on the best experts we have. 

 

And on your last point, in my opinion the answer is pretty much yes. I really can't comprehend anyone, of whichever political persuasion, not doing their best right now.

Crucially I think the matter at hand is whether this government's 'best' will have been good enough. Not whether they're trying.

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Nod.E said:

Crucially I think the matter at hand is whether this government's 'best' will have been good enough. Not whether they're trying.

Not sure where you are finding your comparative set from in that judgement. 

[Sampson]

Honestly, if anyone here has any contacts with the football club, get them to invite @z-layrex, @Parafox and their collegues for the first game City game back with fans on the pitch before the game for a minute's applause for our local healthcare and care workers and give them free hospitality in the corporate box for the game.

 

I'm sure every City fan would love to do all they can to celebrate them and their collegues when we return to normality.

[Nod.E]

10 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Not sure where you are finding your comparative set from in that judgement. 

Well it's difficult isn't it. But it doesn't mean we should just accept whatever happens as 'they were doing their best'.

[z-layrex]

On 15/04/2020 at 13:31, Jon the Hat said:

I don't mean any disrespect - maybe Gossip isnt the right word;  I find it hard to believe you are right on the Nightingale hospital;  I have no doubt it is a hell of a challenge to staff it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/nurse-shortage-causes-nightingale-hospital-to-turn-away-patients

[Costock_Fox]

2 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/nurse-shortage-causes-nightingale-hospital-to-turn-away-patients

Surely it’s actually quite straightforward to forecast how many ICU nurses you would need and they knew they would be miles short. Sounds like a waste of time and money.

[Rain King]

Just now, Costock_Fox said:

Surely it’s actually quite straightforward to forecast how many ICU nurses you would need and they knew they would be miles short. Sounds like a waste of time and money.

This government is more interested in their media image, now it's coming back to bite them on the arse.