Corona Virus

[Lionator]

18 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Christ, just because they haven’t told you something doesn’t mean they aren’t planning. If they mention going out with masks on now, people will just do it now, we have seen how ****ing stupid/ignorant/selfish a big chunk of the population is.

Just accept we will be told information when we need to be told it and stop wetting your pants.

I think people, journalists especially, need to stop wanting to know definitives, this is an incredibly fluid situation. In past pandemics we haven't had the technology which we have now which has enabled us already to save lives globally rather than letting this sweep mercilessly through an unguarded population. The lockdown measures in fact only came into conversation 48 hours before they were enforced so things do change rapidly. 

 

We know so much more than we did a month ago, and even more than two and three months ago. There are a number of lines in inquiry that could be game changers from within research that could influence social distancing and the outcome of this.

 

1) Antibody tests, how many people have had this, what is the true asymptomatic rate and ultimately what is the infection fatality rate. Tentatively from the evidence we're getting, it may not be that high compared to what people were guessing a couple of months back (for example 0.3-0.5%), however that might not explain the incredible death levels in Lombardy and New York City, so what has been going on there?

2) Children - For whatever reason children thankfully aren't getting at all affected by this except in the very unlucky cases, in fact they're barely getting mild illness. So are they even getting infected, or are there other causes which are causing them to get very mild illness?

3) Immunity - A paper in Germany released today indicated that in some people, the body is able to fight this off without even needing to create antibodies, and meaning that people would only suffer a very mild illness, so why is this? Are there groups who are immune to this? Why are men suffering more than women? Why are BAME communities suffering more than non-BAME in the UK? How long does immunity last for in recovered individuals?

 

So many questions which will be answered in the next few weeks and that will change the course of what happens next. I still personally believe, based on no supporting evidence that we probably wont end up needing a vaccine for this, or if we do it'll only be required by the very vulnerable.

 

Chris Whitty is not going to give you false hope, they made that mistake once with the 'game changing' anti body tests which never came and wouldn't have been that good anyway. If we continue on the current path, then what he said today will happen, but things will change and things will be discovered. It will not go the way which you expect it to.

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, Parafox said:

Another shift, another unexpected death.

52 yr old man who'd complained of chest pains earlier today and decided to go to bed with a couple of paracetamol. His wife went up to him 3 hours later to find him unresponsive.

I arrived after the crew got there and I put on my "soft" PPE. As I walk through the front door one of them gestures that there's nothing we can do. I can hear his wife's distraught sobs. Once again a colleague is explaining to her the next steps we have to take as she struggles to take in what we're saying.

Reflecting on recent shifts, I can't remember having 5 non-traumatic deaths in 3 shifts before. I'm beginning to wonder if, as has been mentioned in the press, that people aren't calling us for fear of having to go to hospital and catching CV-19 and then something like this happens. 

 

Sometimes we have had cross words, sometimes we have even agreed,sometimes we have been amused or got serious over the same things..

i Hope it carries on....I Don t know you from Adam,  

But...Keep safe,.

Edited 22 April 2020 by fuchsntf

[Kopfkino]

48 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Christ, just because they haven’t told you something doesn’t mean they aren’t planning. If they mention going out with masks on now, people will just do it now, we have seen how ****ing stupid/ignorant/selfish a big chunk of the population is.

Just accept we will be told information when we need to be told it and stop wetting your pants.

 

But as we saw prior to lockdown people start taking their cues from elsewhere and it won't take long before people see other populations getting some freedoms back and get agitated. We saw this before lockdown and whilst the private sector can't voluntarily do it's own thing with regards to reopening, you still have to take the population with you for them to comply. Isn't the lesson that communication is key and that includes forward guidance about how this evolves?

[Lionator]

The channel 4 scientists show was really good tonight by the way. 

[Strokes]

17 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

But as we saw prior to lockdown people start taking their cues from elsewhere and it won't take long before people see other populations getting some freedoms back and get agitated. We saw this before lockdown and whilst the private sector can't voluntarily do it's own thing with regards to reopening, you still have to take the population with you for them to comply. Isn't the lesson that communication is key and that includes forward guidance about how this evolves?

Maybe yes, but it doesn’t mean today is the day to release that information.

[Parafox]

39 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Sometimes we have had cross words, sometimes we have even agreed,sometimes we have been amused or got serious over the same things..

i Hope it carries on....I Don t know you from Adam,  

But...Keep safe,.

Thank you, the same to you. I enjoy your contributions on here. Genuine posts with genuine views. 

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

Christ, just because they haven’t told you something doesn’t mean they aren’t planning. If they mention going out with masks on now, people will just do it now, we have seen how ****ing stupid/ignorant/selfish a big chunk of the population is.

Just accept we will be told information when we need to be told it and stop wetting your pants.

I don’t trust anything they’re saying, or not saying. Just on the news, there’s a British company that have ordered in enough material to make 750000 items of ppe per week, masks gowns etc, and the government have been notified, but they’ve heard nothing back but instead they send planes over to turkey to bring the stuff in. What’s all that about.

 

 

Edited 22 April 2020 by yorkie1999

[Strokes]

Just now, yorkie1999 said:

I don’t trust anything they’re saying, or not saying. Just on the news, there’s a British company that have ordered in enough material to make 750000 items of ppe per week, masks gowns etc, and the government have been notified, but they’ve heard nothing back but instead send they send planes over to turkey to bring the stuff in. What’s all that about.

Pretty sure it was said on here that the price they were charging was way above the price we get from elsewhere.

 

So why does it matter if they do or don’t give instructions, as you don’t trust or believe them?

[Stevosevic]

I do find it strange that a vaccine is being spoken about as if it's guaranteed there will be one in a year or two...

 

We should making all the plans possible to live with the virus. 

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, Stevosevic said:

I do find it strange that a vaccine is being spoken about as if it's guaranteed there will be one in a year or two...

 

We should making all the plans possible to live with the virus. 

Achieving herd immunity as soon as possible, whilst also attempting to minimise the impact of the virus, is what I hope we aim for.

I’ve said it before but I fear that a vaccine will be rushed out, and that may also carry severe consequences.

[Lionator]

18 minutes ago, Stevosevic said:

I do find it strange that a vaccine is being spoken about as if it's guaranteed there will be one in a year or two...

 

We should making all the plans possible to live with the virus. 

The vaccine which oxford are testing already exists. It’s been tested previously and they’re confident that it’s safe from what I’ve read. They now need to know whether it will protect against covid-19 and based on the evidence they have they’re confident that it will. An institution like Oxford will not risk this kind of thing, there are so many hoops to jump through. There will be an effective vaccine for this.

 

What isn’t known is how long it’ll take to find the right one and how long it’ll take to mass produce it. Anything under a year is a bonus. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

22 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Pretty sure it was said on here that the price they were charging was way above the price we get from elsewhere.

 

So why does it matter if they do or don’t give instructions, as you don’t trust or believe them?

Someone said they were charging 23 times the normal price.

[yorkie1999]

30 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Pretty sure it was said on here that the price they were charging was way above the price we get from elsewhere.

 

So why does it matter if they do or don’t give instructions, as you don’t trust or believe them?

How much is a face mask? 50p, a pound or maybe a fiver. How much are we going to save on 750000 items? Maybe a million quid. Big deal

[String fellow]

Are our tv presenters now getting more aggressive towards politicians they interview during this crisis? We expect it from Piers Morgan, but now it seems that Dan Walker and even Nick Robinson are also starting to get tough.

[fuchsntf]

42 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Pretty sure it was said on here that the price they were charging was way above the price we get from elsewhere.

 

So why does it matter if they do or don’t give instructions, as you don’t trust or believe them?

What s the Real extra costs,against the lives,and stress of the People on the Front line...a few Million quid. 

we Don t Need Saving from currency...

 

[WigstonWanderer]

5 hours ago, Strokes said:

Achieving herd immunity as soon as possible, whilst also attempting to minimise the impact of the virus, is what I hope we aim for.

I’ve said it before but I fear that a vaccine will be rushed out, and that may also carry severe consequences.

A highly risky strategy when the degree and duration of immunity conferred by contracting and recovering from the virus is unknown, and the underlying infection fatality rate is still debated. If it turns out to be like a more infectious & deadly version of the common cold, immunity may not last long, so the deaths in the first wave will be for nothing, as similar or worse waves strike subsequently.

 

The only responsible and prudent strategy until more is known is to suppress the infection to get it completely under control, and then keep it so by using test, trace and other measures, whilst cautiously lifting restrictions.

 

Will this work? Obviously I don’t know, but there is some cause for optimism in South Korea and other countries. Australia, Germany and other countries (maybe even the UK if they are able) look like following this course.

Edited 23 April 2020 by WigstonWanderer

[Strokes]

7 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

A highly risky strategy when the degree and duration of immunity conferred by contracting and recovering from the virus is unknown, and the underlying infection fatality rate is still debated. If it turns out to be like a more infectious & deadly version of the common cold, immunity may not last long, so the deaths in the first wave will be for nothing, as similar or worse waves strike subsequently.

 

The only responsible and prudent strategy until more is known is to suppress the infection to get it completely under control, and then keep it so by using test, trace and other measures, whilst cautiously lifting restrictions.

 

Will this work? Obviously I don’t know, but there is some cause for optimism in South Korea and other countries. Australia, Germany and other countries (maybe even the UK if they are able) look like following this course.

I disagree, many lives will be lost to poverty and depression when this all over, if we run from the virus every time it breaks out. Each pathway contains risks.

Edited 23 April 2020 by Strokes

[Milo]

Got a message from my car finance company saying that they are offering 3 month payment holidays due to Coronavirus. 
 

On reading the small print, they are charging £100 per month if you take them them up on their offer. 
 

Nothing like a bit of casual profiteering during a national crisis, is there. 

[Dahnsouff]

8 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

How much is a face mask? 50p, a pound or maybe a fiver. How much are we going to save on 750000 items? Maybe a million quid. Big deal

So you spend 1 million more than you planned on these 750000 items. Is that it? No, these are items are often single use, so you will need to overpay again and again and again. Its money, its not important compared to lives of course.

However, there are many ways to inflict suffering on people and knackering the economy is another.

Edited 23 April 2020 by Dahnsouff

[l444ry]

 

Ireland is one island with two very different death rates. 

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/coronavirus-ireland-is-one-island-with-two-very-different-death-rates-1.4234353?fbclid=IwAR0XP18mQxHnCMbi4FsRJgGXPra8AyllM2WGa1R9qsFSEy5tSwNRoolbnlc

 

[Strokes]

7 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

How much is a face mask? 50p, a pound or maybe a fiver. How much are we going to save on 750000 items? Maybe a million quid. Big deal

I’d imagine there is a bit more too it than that but neither you or I know the answers to it, but then I’m not the one pissing my knickers about things I haven’t got the full details on.

Some people’s de-facto position is distrust and blame I guess.

[Sir Shep]

21 minutes ago, Milo said:

Got a message from my car finance company saying that they are offering 3 month payment holidays due to Coronavirus. 
 

On reading the small print, they are charging £100 per month if you take them them up on their offer. 
 

Nothing like a bit of casual profiteering during a national crisis, is there. 

Seriously?  Me thinks this needs investigating! 

[Mike Oxlong]

23 minutes ago, Milo said:

Got a message from my car finance company saying that they are offering 3 month payment holidays due to Coronavirus. 
 

On reading the small print, they are charging £100 per month if you take them them up on their offer. 
 

Nothing like a bit of casual profiteering during a national crisis, is there. 

Are they connected to one of the main car brands ? If so I’d write to the brand’s UK head office to tell them you’ll be taking your business elsewhere next time and will be advising others to do the same. 

[The Fox Covert]

Coronavirus has most likely by now killed more people than the Blitz by Nazi Germany on wartime Britain in 1940.

 

The Financial Times reports that:

 

...More than 41,000 people may have already died from coronavirus in the UK according to new analysis - more than double the latest total announced by the Government.

The official death toll which stood at 17,337 on Monday, based almost entirely on the deaths of hospital patients who tested positive for Covid-19. However the Financial Times, using separate figures published by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) and other sources to extrapolate the number of deaths beyond the Government total, to better reflect what is happening in the wider community, said there had been 41,102 deaths by Tuesday. It described the figure, which includes more than 10,000 in care homes, as a "conservative estimate".

[StanSP]