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Corona Virus

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No political discussion in this topic. That is complaining about a country, a politician, a party and/or its voters, etc

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7 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Did not know that - I cannot say I am surprised, but yes, when your own population is on the line, what is any Government morally obliged to do I guess...

Or just have your own bloody production capacity for such items...

It would probably work out cheaper bearing in mind that the real cost is not having any ppe.

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2 hours ago, Barrowblue said:

It's a similar situation with the risks associated with smoking , alcohol and obesity.

 

The global death rate from smoking this year so far is 1.8m

The global death rate from alcohol this year so far is 870k

Obesity is a tricky one to put down as a cause as it covers so many other illnesses. 

 

These numbers won't stop people drinking 10 pints, chuffing 10 fags and tucking into a kebab any time soon. 

Exactly.

 

But alcohol and obesity are normalised so it's okay. They aren't a scary new virus.

 

People, man. Honestly.

Edited by Nod.E
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2 hours ago, Barrowblue said:

It's a similar situation with the risks associated with smoking , alcohol and obesity.

 

The global death rate from smoking this year so far is 1.8m

The global death rate from alcohol this year so far is 870k

Obesity is a tricky one to put down as a cause as it covers so many other illnesses. 

 

These numbers won't stop people drinking 10 pints, chuffing 10 fags and tucking into a kebab any time soon. 

 

2 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Exactly.

 

But alcohol and obesity are normalised so it's okay. They aren't a scary new virus.

 

People, man. Honestly.

I might posit there is a difference in terms of comparison between deaths caused as a corollary of everyday activity that it would be near impossible to stop without seriously affecting quality of life permanently, and those caused by a disease whose reach, while wide, will likely only be temporary.

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2 hours ago, bmt said:

Excellent post. Do you feel you should have been told to shield?

Initially I was surprised that I was told to shield but accepted it as my condition was on the list; however since then I have had my doubts.  My wife is a diabetic and at present I'm shielding and she's going to the shops and my gut feel is that it should be the other way round.

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11 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

I might posit there is a difference in terms of comparison between deaths caused as a corollary of everyday activity that it would be near impossible to stop without seriously affecting quality of life permanently, and those caused by a disease whose reach, while wide, will likely only be temporary.

 

Well yeah but the point is more about managing risk rather than directly comparing them. Of course the marginal risk of exposure to the virus is greater than a packet cigarettes or a night of binge drinking etc. I think it's a clumsy way of looking at it personally but I get its appeal

 

Idk if it holds still or if it holds across age groups but I did see, maybe 6 weeks ago, that the virus doubles your risk of dying in a year. Wish I could find it again now. 

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1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

I think this just highlights what a complete bunch of incompetent fools are in charge of and running the supply chain. Is it red tape or  too many people involved that don't talk to each other. You've got to be an absolute dimwit to order 400000 surgical gowns and not check what you're ordering. The civil service must be an absolute monster to organise, maybe too big of a monster. 

 

Probably some goverment bell worker went on Alibaba or something then typed in "dr gowns" and ordered the cheapest ones from China. 

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16 minutes ago, Jattdogg said:

 

Probably some goverment bell worker went on Alibaba or something then typed in "dr gowns" and ordered the cheapest ones from China. 

Or they're ordering the correct ones, but when received, the quality of them simply isn't up to scratch, as has happened pretty much everywhere. 

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15 minutes ago, Darkon84 said:

Or they're ordering the correct ones, but when received, the quality of them simply isn't up to scratch, as has happened pretty much everywhere. 

Why didn't the government send some one over to turkey to check the quality before we bought them. Or at least ask the question, is a Turkish manufacturer of track suits (something i just read) capable of making medical equipment to the necessary standards.

Edited by yorkie1999
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58 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Well yeah but the point is more about managing risk rather than directly comparing them. Of course the marginal risk of exposure to the virus is greater than a packet cigarettes or a night of binge drinking etc. I think it's a clumsy way of looking at it personally but I get its appeal

 

Idk if it holds still or if it holds across age groups but I did see, maybe 6 weeks ago, that the virus doubles your risk of dying in a year. Wish I could find it again now. 

Yeah, like you I can see the appeal but I do also think it's clumsy simply because of the time factor - unless we're very, very unlucky Covid-19 is not going to be any kind of a comparable risk factor to actions like smoking, drinking and driving a car within standard human life after the next year or two whereas the former three are always going to be there as long as that same idea of the "standard human life" continues. As such, I think it calls for an entirely different approach to risk management whereby taking extraordinary measures in the short and medium term in order to drive that risk factor down to a level where it is barely a problem any more is justified, whereas it would not be with the other examples.

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21 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Why didn't the government send some one over to turkey to check the quality before we bought them. Or at least ask the question, is a Turkish manufacturer of track suits (something i just read) capable of making medical equipment to the necessary standards.

We don't know the circumstances once again. They might have seen samples but the actual goods are poor. I've read that they were purchased from the Turkish Government themselves, who bought them from China.

 

We have people saying they should be buying all the PPE they can, but when they do and it's not suitable or up to our standards, they say why are they wasting time buying PPE we can't use.

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have religious services stopped? is the service about the venue or the message? or is it about being seen to believe?  being a non believer but respectful of those that do believe with a strong view that a church is a place for worship not a back drop to someone's wedding photos.

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25 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

We don't know the circumstances once again. They might have seen samples but the actual goods are poor. I've read that they were purchased from the Turkish Government themselves, who bought them from China.

 

We have people saying they should be buying all the PPE they can, but when they do and it's not suitable or up to our standards, they say why are they wasting time buying PPE we can't use.

I work in the trade and it happens loads were the samples are good but when you get the bulk it's of terrible quality .

Normal you will order in batches so if the first ones no good they can improve or you go else where.

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Just now, los dedos said:

I work in the trade and it happens loads were the samples are good but when you get the bulk it's of terrible quality .

Normal you will order in batches so if the first ones no good they can improve or you go else where.

Don't they have to come from audited factories that also meet the required standard?

 

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3 minutes ago, twoleftfeet said:

have religious services stopped? is the service about the venue or the message? or is it about being seen to believe?  being a non believer but respectful of those that do believe with a strong view that a church is a place for worship not a back drop to someone's wedding photos.

The king power has been closed for a while now!

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Say restrictions were lifted in 3 weeks to allow us to visit family members and friends at houses. What's difference is the 3 week delay going to make?

 

For any benefits it will bring, will these outweigh the effect this is going to have on people's mental health - especially for the unfortunate people that are stuck alone (or with too many people)

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14 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Say restrictions were lifted in 3 weeks to allow us to visit family members and friends at houses. What's difference is the 3 week delay going to make?

 

For any benefits it will bring, will these outweigh the effect this is going to have on people's mental health - especially for the unfortunate people that are stuck alone (or with too many people)

This is the crux isn`t it - at what point do you shift from focus on stopping the spread and to peoples mental and financial wellbeing

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15 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Say restrictions were lifted in 3 weeks to allow us to visit family members and friends at houses. What's difference is the 3 week delay going to make?

 

For any benefits it will bring, will these outweigh the effect this is going to have on people's mental health - especially for the unfortunate people that are stuck alone (or with too many people)

Hopefully the numbers will be a lot lower in three weeks so transmission will drop further.

 

Given that our drop in cases and deaths is so much slower than our Spanish, Italian and French neighbours, I don't think 3 weeks would make a difference to be honest.

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17 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Say restrictions were lifted in 3 weeks to allow us to visit family members and friends at houses. What's difference is the 3 week delay going to make?

 

For any benefits it will bring, will these outweigh the effect this is going to have on people's mental health - especially for the unfortunate people that are stuck alone (or with too many people)

I've finally got a week off in a couple of weeks time and I've decided I'm going back to Leicester to see my mum regardless of the lockdown. I may get some negative comments etc but I need to go see her for her sake as much as mine. She lives alone so has barely seen anyone for weeks and the occasional video call with her granddaughter doesn't seem enough to cheer her up. I've adhered to all of the rules up to now and will continue to social distance but I'm not staying away from family for much longer

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14 hours ago, Fktf said:

Another option is that the sample was contaminated, or the test gave a false positive. 

the report I saw said they had retested three times 
 

6 hours ago, StanSP said:

Did anyone, erm, check what they were buying before bulk ordering it?! 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

I think this just highlights what a complete bunch of incompetent fools are in charge of and running the supply chain. Is it red tape or  too many people involved that don't talk to each other. You've got to be an absolute dimwit to order 400000 surgical gowns and not check what you're ordering. The civil service must be an absolute monster to organise, maybe too big of a monster. 

 

1 hour ago, Darkon84 said:

Or they're ordering the correct ones, but when received, the quality of them simply isn't up to scratch, as has happened pretty much everywhere. 

 

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

Why didn't the government send some one over to turkey to check the quality before we bought them. Or at least ask the question, is a Turkish manufacturer of track suits (something i just read) capable of making medical equipment to the necessary standards.

What a mess .....I guess some time is needed on this story to find the truth. Rumour amongst the forwarders was that the original 400k was sold to Russia which left the supplier scrambling around to replace. It’s feasible that the U.K. had people precheck the consignment and it was then sold and replaced (in identical packaging) prior to loading.  The secret on things like this is to examine items from many boxes and then reseal those boxes and sign across the tape in such a way that it can’t  be re opened or substituted without it being obvious when you recheck those boxes on loading. I suspect whoever was responsible was too trusting ........not the best policy in turkey or China .....

 

funnily enough, Ive finally had a call back from NHS procurement........... they had me down on their system as a supplier of 500k N95 masks at £2-05 ...... strange as I’ve never offered that product to them ...... if that’s an indication of how effective their systems are it’s no wonder things are a bit of a dogs dinner ......... the fella i spoke to was nice though ......

Edited by st albans fox
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29 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Even positive vibes Sikora is losing faith.

 

 

All those born in the first half of the month can go out on Monday. all those born in the second half of the month can go out on Tuesday. everyone else can go out on Wednesday 

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4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

 

 

 

 

What a mess .....I guess some time is needed on this story to find the truth. Rumour amongst the forwarders was that the original 400k was sold to Russia which left the supplier scrambling around to replace. It’s feasible that the U.K. had people precheck the consignment and it was then sold and replaced (in identical packaging) prior to loading.  The secret on things like this is to examine items from many boxes and then reseal those boxes and sign across the tape in such a way that it can’t  be re opened or substituted without it being obvious when you recheck those boxes on loading. I suspect whoever was responsible was too trusting ........not the best policy in turkey or China .....

 

funnily enough, Ive finally had a call back from NHS procurement........... they had me down on their system as a supplier of 500k N95 masks at £2-05 ...... strange as I’ve never offered that product to them ...... if that’s an indication of how effective their systems are it’s no wonder things are a bit of a dogs dinner ......... the fella i spoke to was nice though ......

And this was 2 weeks ago!

https://www.ft.com/content/7b1b43ec-f73a-4f6e-8311-350da70f2538

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One of the best analogies I've seen is being on the 20th floor of a high rise when there's a fire. The fire represents the negative side effects of lockdown, eg, economic effects, job losses, mental health issues.

 

You are trapped in the building (representing lockdown) and the damage caused by jumping represents coronavirus. It would be stupid to jump when you are on the 20th floor so you stay inside and make your way down the stairs.

 

As time goes on the fire spreads so quickly that you realise you arent going to make it out of the ground floor safely as the effects of the fire will engulf you by then. So you have to make a decision of staying in the building, jumping and, if jumping, when to jump. Jump too early and you will die, jump too late and you will die.

 

Jump when you are low enough to the ground though and you might do a little bit of recoverable damage from the effects of the fire and the effects of the fall.

 

Moral is that we have to lift lockdown at some point, even if coronavirus is still about otherwise the negative effect of being on lockdown will start to outweigh the positives.

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4 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Did not know that - I cannot say I am surprised, but yes, when your own population is on the line, what is any Government morally obliged to do I guess...

Or just have your own bloody production capacity for such items...

I would be very surprised if the don't move to more local production for critical items in future.  We cannot be dependent on China supply chains here.

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