Corona Virus

[rachhere]

I don’t know with this Cummings thing. If you aren’t well enough to tag team to look after your children, surely you aren’t well enough to do a 260 mile trip... 

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Cummings is surely toast...... he has no way out of this. no different to the randy professor .........
 

I actually think on balance, he is an asset to the administration (who seem to lack a high degree of intellect at cabinet level) and will retain influence, even if he is no longer directly employed or visible.  
 

 

They are defending him. That cabinet is so in debt to him, they are defending. A bloke what used elite v the public to effect an election and referendum.....

[StanSP]

17 minutes ago, MattP said:

From what I've read Cummings should just come out and apologise, he was clearly in a difficult position with his children and he made a snap decision in tricky circumstances that I'm sure he knew would put him in a situation if he was caught.

 

He's probably within the rules but not within the spirit of the rules.

 

I'm not going to lie though - the more absolute hysterical outrage he creates from the remainers the more I love him, I can't help it.

 

Demanding his sacking is a bit daft though, so more overreaction to people making mistakes these days - that goes for guys like Kinnock as well, you shouldn't lose your job for going for a cup of coffee with your parents.

Such a weird thing to feel. You have a cold heart Matt !

 

As for demanding his sacking, it's not that daft considering others have lost their position for less, mistake or not.

 

The fact you seem to love that he causes outrage - and it's 100% certified you won't be in that position - makes it a very worrying position. It's where his position will almost become unsackable regardless of what he does. 

 

'he was clearly in a difficult position and made a snap decision'. Was it though? Was it a 'difficult position'? 

 

Much of the general public have been able to make a sensible, yet difficult, decision in similar circumstances. Why is Cummings so different? Why does he seemingly get special treatment?

[Nick]

15 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Without wanting to be harsh, that article is full of ifs, buts and maybes.

 

 

Absolutely 

[Guest MattP]

Just now, StanSP said:

Such a weird thing to feel. You have a cold heart Matt !

 

As for demanding his sacking, it's not that daft considering others have lost their position for less, mistake or not.

 

The fact you seem to love that he causes outrage - and it's 100% certified you won't be in that position - makes it a very worrying position. It's where his position will almost become unsackable regardless of what he does. 

 

'he was clearly in a difficult position and made a snap decision'. Was it though? Was it a 'difficult position'? 

 

Much of the general public have been able to make a sensible, yet difficult, decision in similar circumstances. Why is Cummings so different? Why does he seemingly get special treatment?

If you were also calling for the sacking of Stephen Kinnock and Robert Jenrick then fine, go after Cummings as well with a clear conscience. If you are calling for the sacking of Dom but didn't make a noise when a Labour politician broke lockdown for no reason at all then I'd be quiet.

 

Personally I'm not sure making a mistake means you should be sacked (although Ferguson breaking it for a shag was inexcusable)

 

He made a decision based on an ill child - reading some of the comments on Twitter you think the bloke had driven upto Durham to go to a party.

[Leicester_Loyal]

1 hour ago, String fellow said:

Whether or not Cummings acted legally, the perception is that he acted wrongly, so if the government is smart (doubtful), then it should deal with him in the way that Catherine Calderwood was dealt with in Scotland. Neil Ferguson did the decent thing and resigned. 

Ferguson was trying to get his end away, Cummings was 'allegedly' ensuring his children were properly cared for. Completely different set of circumstances (if true). 

 

You'd have thought someone else would have been able to take his kids 250 miles across the country though.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

27 minutes ago, MattP said:

Demanding his sacking is a bit daft though, so more overreaction to people making mistakes these days 

Personally I'm not sure making a mistake means you should be sacked

Any mistake made by anyone in the public eye these days comes with a Twitterstorm and immediate demands for sackings.

That's just the way of the world right now.

[Bellend Sebastian]

I like the suggestion in some versions of the story I read is that he was caught in the act as they attracted attention by playing Dancing Queen by Abba too loudly

 

 

[Bellend Sebastian]

I had a certain amount of sympathy for Neil Ferguson as the desire to get one's end away can be very, very powerful

[Guest MattP]

10 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Ferguson was trying to get his end away, Cummings was 'allegedly' ensuring his children were properly cared for. Completely different set of circumstances (if true). 

 

You'd have thought someone else would have been able to take his kids 250 miles across the country though.

Cummings probably hasn't got any mates left in North London after the referendum

[Finnaldo]

4 minutes ago, MattP said:

If you were also calling for the sacking of Stephen Kinnock and Robert Jenrick then fine, go after Cummings as well with a clear conscience. If you are calling for the sacking of Dom but didn't make a noise when a Labour politician broke lockdown for no reason at all then I'd be quiet.

 

Personally I'm not sure making a mistake means you should be sacked (although Ferguson breaking it for a shag was inexcusable)

 

He made a decision based on an ill child - reading some of the comments on Twitter you think the bloke had driven upto Durham to go to a party.

If Kinnock and Jenrick broke the lockdown they should be disciplined by their party. Understandably though, a member of the government team, who are the ones enforcing the lockdown restrictions, breaking those restrictions and travelling to the other side of the country as someone suspected of having the virus really can’t be forgiven in the context. I’m not being heartless, but the man is clearly a lot more privileged than most of us when it comes to resources and I’m sure his child could have been catered for a lot closer to home.

 

The police having a word is a bit discouraging.

[Wymsey]

He should get punished a bit by apologising and also donating some of his expenses/salary to the NHS.

[StanSP]

22 minutes ago, MattP said:

If you were also calling for the sacking of Stephen Kinnock and Robert Jenrick then fine, go after Cummings as well with a clear conscience. If you are calling for the sacking of Dom but didn't make a noise when a Labour politician broke lockdown for no reason at all then I'd be quiet.

 

Personally I'm not sure making a mistake means you should be sacked (although Ferguson breaking it for a shag was inexcusable)

 

He made a decision based on an ill child - reading some of the comments on Twitter you think the bloke had driven upto Durham to go to a party.

Based on an ill child? If you're well enough to drive 250 odd miles you're more than likely well enough to be able to take care of your child. Is it really the case as well that 250 miles away is your nearest care provider, too? Obviously I hope his child recovers but what about the risk, at the time, given he & his wife had symptoms as well, to his parents and sisters/nieces etc? What about the rule, at the time that was quite explicitly given to the whole public not to visit family, not to take in visitors to your home if you or someone you know is suffering with symptoms.

 

What makes Cummings different and why should he get away with it? Why are Number 10 explicitly denying he broke the rules/instructions when it's clear as fvcking day that's exactly what he did? It's the problem with the current government (and corrupt establishments all round) - too busy clearing up for other people's mistakes, focusing on the PR of it all and sweeping it under the carpet as opposed to taking responsibility for it all, accepting he broke the rules and accepting one of their own staff messed up in a bad way. 

 

There's making a mistake, and then there's also breaking the rules. For me, this falls in the latter category. 

 

It's just the double standards of it all that infuriates me. Instruct the public to do one thing. Allow your own advisor to do another...

[theessexfox]

33 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Any mistake made by anyone in the public eye these days comes with a Twitterstorm and immediate demands for sackings.

That's just the way of the world right now.

It’s not a mistake according to the government line...

 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

1 minute ago, theessexfox said:

It’s not a mistake according to the government line...

I was talking generally about mistakes and how the world seemingly demands a head-on-a-plate for everything.

 

(I don't really get offended by stuff and leave the daily anger/outrage to others, maybe it's because I've reached an age/time/place where I feel life's too short to be troubled by most things.)

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, rachhere said:

I don’t know with this Cummings thing. If you aren’t well enough to tag team to look after your children, surely you aren’t well enough to do a 260 mile trip... 

he wasn’t particularly ill at the time they decided to make the trip ....l I think his wife was 
 

 

43 minutes ago, MattP said:

He made a decision based on an ill child - reading some of the comments on Twitter you think the bloke had driven upto Durham to go to a party.

I believe that his wife was ill, he was beginning to show symptoms and the assumption was that he would soon fall ill aswell.  However, the rest of us would have considered it not allowable to travel to another abode to isolate ..... the child wasn’t ill but would need to be cared for ...as would everyone’s in the same situation .....

I just don’t see how it can be justified ..... we all have kids and why should he be allowed to deal with it in a different way to everyone else .....

[Guest MattP]

11 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Based on an ill child? If you're well enough to drive 250 odd miles you're more than likely well enough to be able to take care of your child. Is it really the case as well that 250 miles away is your nearest care provider, too? Obviously I hope his child recovers but what about the risk, at the time, given he & his wife had symptoms as well, to his parents and sisters/nieces etc? What about the rule, at the time that was quite explicitly given to the whole public not to visit family, not to take in visitors to your home if you or someone you know is suffering with symptoms.

 

What makes Cummings different and why should he get away with it? Why are Number 10 explicitly denying he broke the rules/instructions when it's clear as fvcking day that's exactly what he did? It's the problem with the current government (and corrupt establishments all round) - too busy clearing up for other people's mistakes, focusing on the PR of it all and sweeping it under the carpet as opposed to taking responsibility for it all, accepting he broke the rules and accepting one of their own staff messed up in a bad way. 

 

There's making a mistake, and then there's also breaking the rules. For me, this falls in the latter category. 

 

It's just the double standards of it all that infuriates me. Instruct the public to do one thing. Allow your own advisor to do another...

Sorry I didn't mean "ill child" - I meant he was finding care for his child.

 

Coronavirus attacks you at different times, if he was showing symptoms it was perfectly reasonable for him to find childcare in the expectation he would get worse. Saying he is well enough to drive means he's well enough to look after his kids is nonsense unless you think you can predict the future.

 

In his defence there is a video of one of the briefings where one of the scientists says if you are ill and need childcare that is an exception.

 

He's made an error - the idea he should lose his job is bizarre. Howls of outrage from people who have already expressed a nonstop hatred of the bloke due to his political were totally expected and they also should be totally ignored.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

 

 

In his defence there is a video of one of the briefings where one of the scientists says if you are ill and need childcare that is an exception.

 

 

If that is true then this matter should be closed (was this comment in a briefing ever revised because many have been !)

[Magictv]

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/what-to-do-if-you-or-someone-you-live-with-has-coronavirus-symptoms/staying-at-home-if-you-or-someone-you-live-with-has-coronavirus-symptoms/

[StanSP]

10 minutes ago, MattP said:

He's made an error - the idea he should lose his job is bizarre. Howls of outrage from people who have already expressed a nonstop hatred of the bloke due to his political were totally expected and they also should be totally ignored.

That's like saying your opinion should be ignored because seemingly, anything he does to cause such outrage, is loved undoubtedly so by you . So you're bound to find less fault in his actions...?

[yorkie1999]

55 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Any mistake made by anyone in the public eye these days comes with a Twitterstorm and immediate demands for sackings.

That's just the way of the world right now.

It’s not the making mistake bit that pisses people off though, it’s the do as I say not what I do attitude.

[Voll Blau]

10 minutes ago, MattP said:

He's made an error

 

People are usually contrite when they do that though. He's nowt of the sort.

 

The message we can get from that is it's fine to do what he did and apparently always was.

[Lionator]

When I first heard about what he’d done I genuinely didn’t think it was that bad. Wrong but not something that should cost him his job, and I didn’t think that Ferguson should have lost his job. 
 

The way however that they’ve spun the situation, lied and treated the public with contempt in the past few hours has completely changed my opinion. It stinks. 

[StanSP]

His own wife's account of having the virus is quite telling. From her own article in The Spectator USA:

Quote

 

I had thought that actually getting the coronavirus would bring clarity — that there would be some satisfaction in meeting the enemy, feeling its spectral hands around my lungs. No such luck. Uncertainty is the hallmark of COVID-19. Even its origins are murky: wet markets or the Wuhan Center for Disease Control? Who knows, and who would ever believe the Chinese government anyway? When you’ve got it, the sense of medieval unknowing only deepens. Is this definitely it? Will it get worse? Will it come back?

 

My version of the virus began with a nasty headache and a grubby feeling of unease, after which I threw up on the bathroom floor. ‘That’s disgusting, Mum,’ said my four-year-old son, handing me a towel with a look of patronizing distaste.

 

I’ve never known a bug treat its victims so differently. My friends have reported stabbing sore throats, a loss of taste and smell, and numbness in their fingertips. The Huazhong university in Wuhan has just updated its list of official first symptoms which now includes: headache, dizziness, muscle inflammation, fever, diarrhea, vomiting and coughing.

 

One slight but sad effect of this great variation in symptoms is that it makes phoning friends to share COVID stories peculiarly unsatisfying. ‘Weren’t the muscle aches awful? Oh, you didn’t get them. Nope, no sore throat for me. Oh well.’

 

That evening, as I lay on the sofa, a happy thought occurred to me: if this was the virus, then my husband, who works 16-hour days as a rule, would have to come home. I let myself imagine two weeks in bed with ‘mild symptoms’, chatting to Dom and son through an open door. More fool me.

 

My husband did rush home to look after me. He’s an extremely kind man, whatever people assume to the contrary. But 24 hours later, he said ‘I feel weird’ and collapsed. I felt breathless, sometimes achy, but Dom couldn’t get out of bed. Day in, day out for 10 days he lay doggo with a high fever and spasms that made the muscles lump and twitch in his legs. He could breathe, but only in a limited, shallow way.

 

After a week, we reached peak corona uncertainty. Day six is a turning point, I was told: that’s when you either get better or head for ICU. But was Dom fighting off the bug or was he heading for a ventilator? Who knew? I sat on his bed staring at his chest, trying to count his breaths per minute. The little oxygen reader we’d bought on Amazon indicated that he should be in hospital, but his lips weren’t blue and he could talk in full sentences, such as: ‘Please stop staring at my chest, sweetheart.’

 

When do you go to hospital? Do you really wait until the lips go blue? Cedd, in his doctor’s uniform, administered Ribena with the grim insistence of a Broadmoor nurse, and this might be my only really useful advice for other double-COVID parents or single mothers with pre-schoolers: get out the doctor’s kit and make it your child’s job to take your temperature. Any game that involves lying down is a good game. My other corona tip is to order at least a quart of PVA glue. As Dom lay sweating, Cedd and I made a palace out of polystyrene packaging. I’ve laughed in the past at men who obsess over model railways. I won’t laugh again. In a chaotic and unpredictable environment, there’s nothing more comforting than having total control over your own tiny world. Long after my son lost interest I was busy gluing on towers, and cutting colored acetate to make window panes.

 

When Dom finally made it into the kitchen, he found me manically applying cheap plastic stick-on gems to a toilet paper tower. ‘Mum’s busy playing,’ I heard Cedd tell Dom, as he trotted off to fetch the oximeter.

 

Just as Dom was beginning to feel better, it was reported that Boris was heading in the other direction, into hospital. I’ve been a slack Christian during this era of biblical plague. Churches are shut, even Catholic churches, and somehow that makes more of a difference than I thought it would. One of the reasons I converted was because the doors of Catholic churches were always open, the sanctuary lamp lit, and now they’re closed it feels as if someone’s turned off the spiritual stopcock. But what’s there to do for the sick now except pray? I left my polystyrene palace and got to my knees for Boris, and found to my surprise that my prayers flowed easily, as if carried along in a current of others.

 

After the uncertainty of the bug itself, we emerged from quarantine into the almost comical uncertainty of London lockdown. Everything and its opposite seems true. People are frightened and they’re calm; it’s spring and it’s not. Standing in line’s a pain in the ass and the most fun you’ll have all day.

 

There’s been much talk of the spirit of the Blitz, but there’s something of the spirit of East Berlin, too. Social distancing is supposed to be a helpful and communal act, but people smile noticeably less. I think it’s guilt by association. Because it’s natural to steer clear of someone you dislike, when you keep your distance for other reasons, you feel instinctively hostile. There’s a woman jogger I’ve seen a few times now who runs around scowling with an arm held out horizontally to keep everyone at bay. If I didn’t have a child in tow, I’d be tempted to walk straight into her.

 

But then there are the birds, which are chirpier now there’s less noise to compete with, and the strange and wonderful feeling of returning to a world in which waiting is a thing. It’s like the 1990s all over again, people leaning on walls, staring into the distance, scuffing their trainers for something to do. And when you do meet a friend by chance on the street and stop for a guilty, distanced chat, it feels utterly joyful.

 

 

So, despite the graphic and quite severe form of the virus they both experienced, they were happy to pass that risk on to their family so far away? Interesting.

 

Although, given the bit in bold, maybe they're just so selfish and self-centred they don't really care who they pass the virus on to if that's their mode of thinking...

[StanSP]

2 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

 

People are usually contrite when they do that though. He's nowt of the sort.

 

The message we can get from that is it's fine to do what he did and apparently always was.

Usually, if you make an 'error', you hold your hands up, accept you made a mistake and make an attempt to move on (i.e. take responsibility for your actions). This was no error. He knew the rules. Knew the circumstance. Decided to do his own thing anyway. Something which no doubt hundreds of thousands of members of public have resisted the temptation to do...

 

I've not seen any apology of any kind and he's even got his mates to stick up for him on Twitter, all saying the same thing ffs