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[Leicester_Loyal]

5 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Deservedly so. If nothing else he's monumentally thick 

Oh I'm willing to bet he's thick as ****. Ruined his life for this day out.

[WigstonWanderer]

5 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Deservedly so. If nothing else he's monumentally thick 

nice one

[Alf Bentley]

13 minutes ago, Foxes1 said:

But then again he is over 70 so should be shielding.

 

My understanding is that strict shielding only applied to those deemed "clinically extremely vulnerable" due to specified medical conditions like cancer, suppressed immune system, transplants etc.

 

Unless that applies to Soulsby, I presume it is the general rules for over-70s/"clinically vulnerable" that apply - basically to take even more care than under-70s to minimise social contact:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others

 

"If you have any of the following health conditions, you are clinically vulnerable, meaning you are at higher risk of severe illness from coronavirus. You should take particular care to minimise contact with others outside your household.

Clinically vulnerable people are those who are: 

- aged 70 or older (regardless of medical conditions)

- under 70 with an underlying health condition"

 

I imagine Soulsby would say that he and his lady-friend are in the same household, even if he doesn't stay every night with her and has a place of his own.

 

Anyway, more than enough time spent on this....

[The whole world smiles]

7 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Jobless with a couple of days of being named for sure. I doubt he delibately meant to piss there, but he's got himself in a whole world of bother.

Must be hard, bet the police had them penned in on parliament Square,  so no quiet side streets, no pubs or restaurants open so no public toilets. Bet he was probably 8 cans in. To be fair he wasn't pissing on it but next too it and it probably wasn't that obvious what it was especially in his Stella and cocaine haze.

 

Easy to feel for the lad on a human level for the shit storm that is heading his way. Difficult to feel too sorry for him though considering the behaviour of the group he was with.  

[foxile5]

23 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Oh I'm willing to bet he's thick as ****. Ruined his life for this day out.

I've been caught short before too. Isn't the golden rule to go down an alley or against a Bush. 

 

Just plain thick to go in the street. Even more so in this climate. 

[foxile5]

The left wing has been an embarrassment, frankly. 

 

There was potential for change and discourse. Instead they rallied about taking down statues in some meaningless gesture politic attempt and resulted in provoking an aggressive right. 

 

Any chance for change has been dissipated this weekend. Well done left wing. You all instagrammed yourselves mucking about with a statue. Ugh. 

[Strokes]

Just now, foxile5 said:

The left wing has been an embarrassment, frankly. 

 

There was potential for change and discourse. Instead they rallied about taking down statues in some meaningless gesture politic attempt and resulted in provoking an aggressive right. 

 

Any chance for change has been dissipated this weekend. Well done left wing. You all instagrammed yourselves mucking about with a statue. Ugh. 

This is the problem now, both sides are more concerned with oneupmanship, than actually inspiring hearts and mind. Short term victories.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

The left wing has been an embarrassment, frankly. 

 

There was potential for change and discourse. Instead they rallied about taking down statues in some meaningless gesture politic attempt and resulted in provoking an aggressive right. 

 

Any chance for change has been dissipated this weekend. Well done left wing. You all instagrammed yourselves mucking about with a statue. Ugh. 

So...assuming all of that is an accurate summation - what now? Lay down arms, dismiss any chance of change as lost, give up the cause so that the status quo in all its ugliness will persist and pin it all on the left rather than the US cops responisble for it?

 

And to forestall the obvious response, yes, I know that wasn't what was said here, but with all due respect without a way to actually address the situation attached as well it may well have been.

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

The left wing has been an embarrassment, frankly. 

 

There was potential for change and discourse. Instead they rallied about taking down statues in some meaningless gesture politic attempt and resulted in provoking an aggressive right. 

 

Any chance for change has been dissipated this weekend. Well done left wing. You all instagrammed yourselves mucking about with a statue. Ugh. 

Yup. It is astonishingly short sighted, and shows the worst side of the left wing. I am in no way excusing the right wing, Tommy and his ilk, but they behaviour was to form, as expected. The left wing, not so much.

 

No doubt the left wing will flag it as a right wing infiltration though.
All in all, a pretty epic fail by a humanity that was given a chance to show it’s ethical progress.

 

[foxile5]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

This is the problem now, both sides are more concerned with oneupmanship, than actually inspiring hearts and mind. Short term victories.

Just people who want to FEEL like they've made a change without actually impacting the status quo. 

 

I've long suspected that the British left wing is ****ing thick. Low intelligence. This has all but confirmed it for me. Instead of having an end game of protesting they just wanted to be SEEN as doing something. 

 

It should be easy to side against the right but crap like defacing Churchills statue to feel good about themselves has given the right all the ammunition they need. The British left wing are thick as ****. 

[theessexfox]

5 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

The left wing has been an embarrassment, frankly. 

 

There was potential for change and discourse. Instead they rallied about taking down statues in some meaningless gesture politic attempt and resulted in provoking an aggressive right. 

 

Any chance for change has been dissipated this weekend. Well done left wing. You all instagrammed yourselves mucking about with a statue. Ugh. 

One statue was taken down in Bristol, which was a local issue which had rumbled on for years and where democratic attempts to take it down had largely been thwarted, it seems. Since then, most talk about statues and TV programmes have been from the ‘slippery slope’ folk and elements of the media whipping everyone into a frenzy about it. To suggest that ‘the left wing’ has been focusing merely on removing statues is very disingenuous - I’d bet the vast majority of those who have been demonstrating and protesting aren’t too fussed about most of the statues (barring overt slave traders with zero redeeming features), and if they do, it isn’t particularly high up their priority list. If I were to play the generalisation game, I’d suggest that it’s been the ‘reactionary right’ who have been most hysterical about statues, along with a handful of loonies on the left.

[foxile5]

Just now, Dahnsouff said:

Yup. It is astonishingly short sighted, and shows the worst side of the left wing. I am in no way excusing the right wing, Tommy and his ilk, but they behaviour was to form, as expected. The left wing, not so much.

 

No doubt the left wing will flag it as a right wing infiltration though.
All in all, a pretty epic fail by a humanity that was given a chance to show it’s ethical progress.

 

Sadly this is on the money.

 

That chap attempting to - or succeeding - to cut a right wingers throat is all the ammunition the right wing and establishment need to undermine the movement. Well done.

[foxile5]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

So...assuming all of that is an accurate summation - what now? Lay down arms, dismiss any chance of change as lost, give up the cause so that the status quo in all its ugliness will persist and pin it all on the left rather than the US cops responisble for it?

 

And to forestall the obvious response, yes, I know that wasn't what was said here, but with all due respect without a way to actually address the situation attached as well it may well have been.

I have no suggestion, honestly. 

 

The initial point of the protests was to address the inequality of society and to prevent police violence. 

 

I'd certainly start by having a protest that addresses these aims and not attacking public edifices. It seems we're trying to copy the American riots but their anger is more prescient and immediate. We don't need to smash up the cities because, bluntly, our police force are much, much more tolerant. 

 

You say I'm suggesting 'pinning it on the left' then go on to address the entire stupidity of the protests. This is over a US police officer. Yeah a deface a Churchill statue - that'll learn the Minneappolis PD. The left has no substance or identity and to impact any change they'll need that. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418427/ITVs-Morning-wants-hire-black-presenter.html

 

This Morning now want to hire a black presenter in the wake of the BLM protests.

[Dahnsouff]

18 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

So...assuming all of that is an accurate summation - what now? Lay down arms, dismiss any chance of change as lost, give up the cause so that the status quo in all its ugliness will persist and pin it all on the left rather than the US cops responisble for it?

 

And to forestall the obvious response, yes, I know that wasn't what was said here, but with all due respect without a way to actually address the situation attached as well it may well have been.

You lay down your principles when you pick up arms, so it should help. There was an obvious course for protesting in the UK none of it needed to involve violence or defacing of public property, as there was enough velocity for the protests to begin with. Soon as the path varied, it was always likely to be lost. 
 

[Strokes]

7 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418427/ITVs-Morning-wants-hire-black-presenter.html

 

This Morning now want to hire a black presenter in the wake of the BLM protests.

Just what the movement wanted, tokenism.

Is there a black person around here that can read, anyone will do. Who cares they are any good or not.

[leicsmac]

12 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

I have no suggestion, honestly. 

 

The initial point of the protests was to address the inequality of society and to prevent police violence. 

 

I'd certainly start by having a protest that addresses these aims and not attacking public edifices. It seems we're trying to copy the American riots but their anger is more prescient and immediate. We don't need to smash up the cities because, bluntly, our police force are much, much more tolerant. 

 

You say I'm suggesting 'pinning it on the left' then go on to address the entire stupidity of the protests. This is over a US police officer. Yeah a deface a Churchill statue - that'll learn the Minneappolis PD. The left has no substance or identity and to impact any change they'll need that. 

That's all fair enough - a more targeted unified approach with delineated goals is called for, but the left, quite frankly, have never been particularly good at unity. How does it go - "get five lefties in a room and you'll have ten different opinions in a minute and a scrap in two"?

 

Apologies if I was a bit prickly in the original post - I guess I've seen too much of people using the extremis of now as an excuse to dismiss the entire cause (same with the actions of Extinction Rebellion and climate change, come to that) and it's short-sighted and self-serving.

 

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

You lay down your principles when you pick up arms, so it should help. There was an obvious course for protesting in the UK none of it needed to involve violence or defacing of public property, as there was enough velocity for the protests to begin with. Soon as the path varied, it was always likely to be lost. 
 

As someone who clings rather hard to the idea of pacifism, I'm certainly with you there - that being said, it does make things more difficult when you are bound by moral scruples in that way and the "other side" are not.

 

It is deeply frustrating to see the way things have played out, because all the while this bickering and posturing is going on, nothing will change Stateside.

[foxile5]

6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

That's all fair enough - a more targeted unified approach with delineated goals is called for, but the left, quite frankly, have never been particularly good at unity. How does it go - "get five lefties in a room and you'll have ten different opinions in a minute and a scrap in two"?

 

Apologies if I was a bit prickly in the original post - I guess I've seen too much of people using the extremis of now as an excuse to dismiss the entire cause (same with the actions of Extinction Rebellion and climate change, come to that) and it's short-sighted and self-serving.

 

I'm not dismissive of the course. I'm despairing at the people. There's a lack of substance about the protests - it's America lite. There needs to be change but we won't achieve the same results using the same tactics as the US. 

 

Don't worry. I enjoy prickliness. 

[Benguin]

32 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

So...assuming all of that is an accurate summation - what now? Lay down arms, dismiss any chance of change as lost, give up the cause so that the status quo in all its ugliness will persist and pin it all on the left rather than the US cops responisble for it?

 

And to forestall the obvious response, yes, I know that wasn't what was said here, but with all due respect without a way to actually address the situation attached as well it may well have been.

That's what the left need to figure out. 

 

I think the point is, that the methodology is woeful. As you'll know, from previous exchanges I'm more right leaning on most issues but on this issue I think there is only one position to take. What's different is the how that position is employed. 

 

For me it's not about what a statue represents but rather how dessimation of statues furthers a movement. After the George Floyd murder, 99% of people were rallying behind the movement to dismantle institutional racism and only 1% of people were saying things like "racism doesn't exist" or "all lives matter" that is a great success. Sadly now, 20% are talking about dismantling institutional racism and 80% are talking about why Little Britain was removed from Netflix. That is a great failure for the movement. What's changed? The tactic has regressed to mob mentality. Anyone who sincerely wants institutional racism to be addressed but thinks removing statues is the best way to achieve it is, in my opinion, an embarrassment to the movement. 

 

Let's no longer erect statues of slave traders, let's no longer praise racists, let's teach people about history so they grow up appalled by racism. Let's not use divisive tactics as they always fail. 

 

 

 

[yorkie1999]

Apparently, because of the 2 metre rule, people going to pubs won't be allowed to talk loudly! now i'm not a brain surgeon, but....

[Sol thewall Bamba]

31 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418427/ITVs-Morning-wants-hire-black-presenter.html

 

This Morning now want to hire a black presenter in the wake of the BLM protests.

Dictionary definition of tokenism that. 

[FerrisBueller]

The whole thing is mental, the country is so divided at the moment and has been for a number of years. There's no room for discussion anymore, everyone has picked their side and it essentially boils down to Left V Right.

 

The most frustrating thing is that the messages of these causes are getting muddied in the era of mass social media disinformation. Images from completely different events are being shared to further people's biases and context and the 'full picture' are often left out.

 

We've got extremists on both sides, I consider myself Left Wing, but I cringe and sigh at the sight of the extreme left, who want to cancel everything and partake in the virtue signalling. Nobody was asking for these TV programs to be removed, but they have, and unfortunately that paints the whole  Left as this super offended 'snowflake' society.

Similarly, you have veterans who went to London yesterday with integrity, guarding the monuments for sentimental reasons, but with that comes the 'Footy Lads', who essentially wanted a piss up and a scrap.

 

My point is, we don't need to be any more divided than we already are, you're going to get people on the far side of politics who are going to push their agenda in whatever fashion they seem necessary, but we can't let this discredit a whole movement.

 

 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

Left wing thuggery and right wing thuggery is as bad as each other and both need to be called out for what it is - disgusting.

The extremes on both sides should be ashamed of themselves.

They won't be, sadly, because each side think they're superior to the other.

 

[leicsmac]

19 minutes ago, Benguin said:

That's what the left need to figure out. 

 

I think the point is, that the methodology is woeful. As you'll know, from previous exchanges I'm more right leaning on most issues but on this issue I think there is only one position to take. What's different is the how that position is employed. 

 

For me it's not about what a statue represents but rather how dessimation of statues furthers a movement. After the George Floyd murder, 99% of people were rallying behind the movement to dismantle institutional racism and only 1% of people were saying things like "racism doesn't exist" or "all lives matter" that is a great success. Sadly now, 20% are talking about dismantling institutional racism and 80% are talking about why Little Britain was removed from Netflix. That is a great failure for the movement. What's changed? The tactic has regressed to mob mentality. Anyone who sincerely wants institutional racism to be addressed but thinks removing statues is the best way to achieve it is, in my opinion, an embarrassment to the movement. 

 

Let's no longer erect statues of slave traders, let's no longer praise racists, let's teach people about history so they grow up appalled by racism. Let's not use divisive tactics as they always fail. 

 

 

 

That's of course the massive question.

 

Given how beneficial this all is turning out to be to those who want the status quo to continue, it may be that they had a deniable hand in sowing the seeds of division through a few well-placed ringers to push the envelope - but then, as per above, it's equally possible that they didn't have to do that and the empty vessels within the left made the most noise anyway. Maybe a bit of both.

 

Also as per above, it is frustrating to see things come to this because things do need to change and this could well be another win for those perfectly willing to exercise and abuse power over other people and maintain the environment in which it can occur easily.

[yorkie1999]

8 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Left wing thuggery and right wing thuggery is as bad as each other and both need to be called out for what it is - disgusting.

The extremes on both sides should be ashamed of themselves.

They won't be, sadly, because each side think they're superior to the other.

 

The whole point of a protest is to gain sympathy and therefore support. I bet there's millions of people in this country that now won't show any sympathy and think "let them get on with it" because before this all kicked off there wasn't fighting on the streets, so the protests will have done exactly the opposite of what they set out to do apart from probably gaining more support for the anti blm supporters.