Coronavirus Thread

[Buce]

6 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

No exceptionally mils autumn weather in the North of England.  It's been chucking it down all week, and for most of the past few weeks too.

 

No shit, Sherlock.

 

You lot only know it's summer coz the rain gets warmer...

[z-layrex]

5 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Eye opening.

 

Wonder how typical this is of those that voted conservative in the last election.

 

As an anti-tory voter it fills me with some hope that a poster that felt the government could do no wrong before all of this is now 'ashamed'. 

 

Maybe I'm being too hopeful. Seen plenty still sticking to their 'side'.

 

Hats off to you for being humble enough to move your position based on what is unfolding in front of you. Too many turn a blind eye and 'support' their 'team'. 

 

This isn't football, folks.

I will never be ashamed of voting tory last time, because no matter how badly some people will accuse them of handling this, the thought of a Labour government during this disaster makes me shudder. 

[CosbehFox]

8 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

No exceptionally mils autumn weather in the North of England.  It's been chucking it down all week, and for most of the past few weeks too.

It’s mild, it might be raining but it’s not cold. Frosts have been a rarity - thats Stringfellow’s point.

Edited 22 November 2020 by Cardiff_Fox

[StanSP]

 

 

[Buce]

1 hour ago, z-layrex said:

I will never be ashamed of voting tory last time, because no matter how badly some people will accuse them of handling this, the thought of a Labour government during this disaster makes me shudder. 

 

Yep.

 

They'd have been handing lucrative contracts to their relatives and friends, making numerous u-turns along the way, would have had to be shamed by a young footballer into feeding starving kids, and would have been constantly behind the curve by being reactive rather than proactive, terrified at seeing the NHS overwhelmed after starving it of funds for 10 years...

 

Thank God for the Nasty Party, eh?

Edited 22 November 2020 by Buce

[StanSP]

34 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

I will never be ashamed of voting tory last time, because no matter how badly some people will accuse them of handling this, the thought of a Labour government during this disaster makes me shudder. 

Why? 

[Fox92]

43 minutes ago, z-layrex said:

I will never be ashamed of voting tory last time, because no matter how badly some people will accuse them of handling this, the thought of a Labour government during this disaster makes me shudder. 

It's all hindsight and nobody knows but, for me, Corbyn/Starmer care more about the average person than Johnson and his cronies do.

[UniFox21]

I don't get this, we'll never know how another Government/party would've handled this pandemic and is all hypothetical squabbling. Pointless saying Labour would've been worse or better as we'll never know.

 

Someone can be against how Tory have handled this and not regret voting for them. 

 

6 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Maybe I'm being too hopeful. Seen plenty still sticking to their 'side'.

 

Hats off to you for being humble enough to move your position based on what is unfolding in front of you. Too many turn a blind eye and 'support' their 'team'. 

 

This isn't football, folks.

Did you not regret voting for Corbyn in light of all the anti-Semitism surrounding him? 

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

Diane Abbott would have managed to keep the deaths to -7,321.0066, but the R rate at πR²

[Trumpet]

[Leicester_Loyal]

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1330437426666418183?s=20

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

7 hours ago, Nod.E said:

Eye opening.

 

Wonder how typical this is of those that voted conservative in the last election.

 

As an anti-tory voter it fills me with some hope that a poster that felt the government could do no wrong before all of this is now 'ashamed'. 

 

Maybe I'm being too hopeful. Seen plenty still sticking to their 'side'.

 

Hats off to you for being humble enough to move your position based on what is unfolding in front of you. Too many turn a blind eye and 'support' their 'team'. 

 

This isn't football, folks.

Without trying to turn this into the politics thread, I'd consider myself a floating voter, but at the minute I'm politically homeless. If there was a GE tomorrow I'd stay at home and wouldn't even bother voting. I won't bother to list all the shit they've done wrong, as I think Miquel pretty much summed them all up earlier in the thread. For me I thought they had the best policy on Brexit, so I went with them, but now I regret even bothering to vote.

Edited 22 November 2020 by Leicester_Loyal

[Mickyblueeyes]

4 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1330437426666418183?s=20

 

I don’t blame them. To be honest, the cabinet have brought this upon themselves. Yes, it’s an unprecedented pandemic and you expect most decisions to be reactionary rather then pro-active given the changing nature of the beast being fought. However, when they make those decision, that’s where the issue lies. The latest is hilarious. We need to stay in tiered lockdown system but it’s fine to break those rules for 5 days but then you’ll need to get back into it. It’s farcical. 
 

Add to that the clear divide they’re now creating in society from this latest decision.

[st albans fox]

10 hours ago, String fellow said:

Does anyone share my concern that the huge daily death toll is happening despite several mitigating factors, including exceptionally mild autumnal weather, all the restrictions that have been imposed and observed well by most people throughout the pandemic, and the improved levels of treatment provided by the NHS since the spring? 

The daily deaths at the moment are naff all to do with the current lock down as will all be infected more than two weeks ago and it’s accepted (off the record) that only tier 3 restrictions made the slightest difference to the spread of the virus - and that was fairly small and slow 

 

we’re in a real mess for the winter now ....... emotionally, economically, and everything else actually !

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

10 hours ago, String fellow said:

Does anyone share my concern that the huge daily death toll is happening despite several mitigating factors, including exceptionally mild autumnal weather, all the restrictions that have been imposed and observed well by most people throughout the pandemic, and the improved levels of treatment provided by the NHS since the spring? 

I despair at your posts, you are as extreme in your frightened scaremongering posts as the conspiracy theorists are with their views.

 

 

 

[Dunge]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Yep.

 

They'd have been handing lucrative contracts to their relatives and friends, making numerous u-turns along the way, would have had to be shamed by a young footballer into feeding starving kids, and would have been constantly behind the curve by being reactive rather than proactive, terrified at seeing the NHS overwhelmed after starving it of funds for 10 years...

 

Thank God for the Nasty Party, eh?

I voted Conservative at the last election. It was, and remains, the easiest vote I’ve ever had to cast. And I did it despite knowing that Johnson was lazy and inept, and the quality of his cabinet was through the floor. The alternative was just horrendous to me. So I don’t regret it at all. Although that’s not to say I wouldn’t consider a Keir Starmer vote next time around as long as he continues to kick out the extremists and produces a more moderate manifesto.

As for how a Corbyn administration would have dealt with the curveball that was the pandemic: I can only postulate at these things, but I see it like this:

 

They would have had the same scientific advice to act upon and therefore come up with loads of U-turns of their own as that advice developed and changed (either that or make bold predictions which either happened to be right or went badly wrong).

They would have been equally reactive because they had their own economic and social priorities and the pandemic would have been arguably even more of an inconvenience to their agenda than the Tories’ one given the sheer amount of money they intended to spend.

 

They would have had the same lack of leadership if not worse - Corbyn’s first thought in a crisis was always to hide in his office and hope it went away.
 

They would have had to lockdown to protect the NNS, twice, even if it had had billions upon billions more funding over the years because the virus would have overwhelmed it anyway; despite this they would have blamed the Tories for the state of the NHS.

 

They would have had to find some way of madly scrambling to find PPE and come across exactly the same problems as the Tories have. Like them, they would have had to award some sort of contract to somebody, and put their faith in somebody. And given there wasn’t anyone set up to do what we needed and everyone was reacting, that person or group would not have been suitable. Plus, it’s not like Corbyn and McDonnell didn’t have their own cronies that they listened to before any others. They just weren’t capitalists.

 

They might have come to an earlier conclusion about a UK-specific Test and Trace app not working and gone with the manufacturer options, but I don’t see any western country that’s managed one good enough to avoid a second lockdown (Leicsmac May be able to advise on S Korea).

 

We would probably have heard a lot more conflict over schools being opened since they would have likely involved the unions a lot more.

 

And in the middle of all this we’d have been discussing and organising another Brexit vote with the whole country at each other’s throats. And an indyref2 if he’d had to team up with Sturgeon to form a government. Which I have no doubt he would have done happily.

 

But, he would have responded better to Marcus Rashford. Probably. If he wasn’t hiding in his office at the time.
 

 

So no. The option on the table was not a Keir Starmer administration, which looks like it would have done a better job given the requirements of organisation, leadership and attention to detail. It was a Corbyn administration, which was weak on all three of those things and more. I think there’s a fair chance they would have done a worse job and smashed the economy up with it.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

1 hour ago, Dunge said:

I voted Conservative at the last election. It was, and remains, the easiest vote I’ve ever had to cast. And I did it despite knowing that Johnson was lazy and inept, and the quality of his cabinet was through the floor. The alternative was just horrendous to me. So I don’t regret it at all. Although that’s not to say I wouldn’t consider a Keir Starmer vote next time around as long as he continues to kick out the extremists and produces a more moderate manifesto.

As for how a Corbyn administration would have dealt with the curveball that was the pandemic: I can only postulate at these things, but I see it like this:

 

They would have had the same scientific advice to act upon and therefore come up with loads of U-turns of their own as that advice developed and changed (either that or make bold predictions which either happened to be right or went badly wrong).

They would have been equally reactive because they had their own economic and social priorities and the pandemic would have been arguably even more of an inconvenience to their agenda than the Tories’ one given the sheer amount of money they intended to spend.

 

They would have had the same lack of leadership if not worse - Corbyn’s first thought in a crisis was always to hide in his office and hope it went away.
 

They would have had to lockdown to protect the NNS, twice, even if it had had billions upon billions more funding over the years because the virus would have overwhelmed it anyway; despite this they would have blamed the Tories for the state of the NHS.

 

They would have had to find some way of madly scrambling to find PPE and come across exactly the same problems as the Tories have. Like them, they would have had to award some sort of contract to somebody, and put their faith in somebody. And given there wasn’t anyone set up to do what we needed and everyone was reacting, that person or group would not have been suitable. Plus, it’s not like Corbyn and McDonnell didn’t have their own cronies that they listened to before any others. They just weren’t capitalists.

 

They might have come to an earlier conclusion about a UK-specific Test and Trace app not working and gone with the manufacturer options, but I don’t see any western country that’s managed one good enough to avoid a second lockdown (Leicsmac May be able to advise on S Korea).

 

We would probably have heard a lot more conflict over schools being opened since they would have likely involved the unions a lot more.

 

And in the middle of all this we’d have been discussing and organising another Brexit vote with the whole country at each other’s throats. And an indyref2 if he’d had to team up with Sturgeon to form a government. Which I have no doubt he would have done happily.

 

But, he would have responded better to Marcus Rashford. Probably. If he wasn’t hiding in his office at the time.
 

 

So no. The option on the table was not a Keir Starmer administration, which looks like it would have done a better job given the requirements of organisation, leadership and attention to detail. It was a Corbyn administration, which was weak on all three of those things and more. I think there’s a fair chance they would have done a worse job and smashed the economy up with it.

Absolutely spot on 

[Finnaldo]

1 hour ago, Dunge said:

I voted Conservative at the last election. It was, and remains, the easiest vote I’ve ever had to cast. And I did it despite knowing that Johnson was lazy and inept, and the quality of his cabinet was through the floor. The alternative was just horrendous to me. So I don’t regret it at all. Although that’s not to say I wouldn’t consider a Keir Starmer vote next time around as long as he continues to kick out the extremists and produces a more moderate manifesto.

As for how a Corbyn administration would have dealt with the curveball that was the pandemic: I can only postulate at these things, but I see it like this:

 

They would have had the same scientific advice to act upon and therefore come up with loads of U-turns of their own as that advice developed and changed (either that or make bold predictions which either happened to be right or went badly wrong).

They would have been equally reactive because they had their own economic and social priorities and the pandemic would have been arguably even more of an inconvenience to their agenda than the Tories’ one given the sheer amount of money they intended to spend.

 

They would have had the same lack of leadership if not worse - Corbyn’s first thought in a crisis was always to hide in his office and hope it went away.
 

They would have had to lockdown to protect the NNS, twice, even if it had had billions upon billions more funding over the years because the virus would have overwhelmed it anyway; despite this they would have blamed the Tories for the state of the NHS.

 

They would have had to find some way of madly scrambling to find PPE and come across exactly the same problems as the Tories have. Like them, they would have had to award some sort of contract to somebody, and put their faith in somebody. And given there wasn’t anyone set up to do what we needed and everyone was reacting, that person or group would not have been suitable. Plus, it’s not like Corbyn and McDonnell didn’t have their own cronies that they listened to before any others. They just weren’t capitalists.

 

They might have come to an earlier conclusion about a UK-specific Test and Trace app not working and gone with the manufacturer options, but I don’t see any western country that’s managed one good enough to avoid a second lockdown (Leicsmac May be able to advise on S Korea).

 

We would probably have heard a lot more conflict over schools being opened since they would have likely involved the unions a lot more.

 

And in the middle of all this we’d have been discussing and organising another Brexit vote with the whole country at each other’s throats. And an indyref2 if he’d had to team up with Sturgeon to form a government. Which I have no doubt he would have done happily.

 

But, he would have responded better to Marcus Rashford. Probably. If he wasn’t hiding in his office at the time.
 

 

So no. The option on the table was not a Keir Starmer administration, which looks like it would have done a better job given the requirements of organisation, leadership and attention to detail. It was a Corbyn administration, which was weak on all three of those things and more. I think there’s a fair chance they would have done a worse job and smashed the economy up with it.

Judging from a lot of noises that come from SAGE, there’s been plenty of times where this government hasn’t followed the science. 
 

‘But Labour’ doesn’t really explain the contracts for chums, the Eat Out To Help Out scheme boosting infection rates or a completely useless track & trace system. Even if the last election’s other candidate was shite doesn’t produce a bye for shoddy and poor crisis management. 

[Dunge]

3 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Judging from a lot of noises that come from SAGE, there’s been plenty of times where this government hasn’t followed the science. 
 

‘But Labour’ doesn’t really explain the contracts for chums, the Eat Out To Help Out scheme boosting infection rates or a completely useless track & trace system. Even if the last election’s other candidate was shite doesn’t produce a bye for shoddy and poor crisis management. 

I don’t disagree. There have been plenty of times this year that I’ve been annoyed with the actions of the government I voted for. There should have never been any pushing to get people back into offices. Dominic Raab, as supposed deputy PM, looked like a rabbit in the headlights when he had to actually deputise after Johnson got sick and had to be bailed out by Matt Hancock in actually fronting press conferences with any competence. Johnson himself should have taken the threat more seriously at the start. He should have booted out Cummings after the Barnard Castle incident, completely turning the tide of public trust when he didn’t. Johnson should have been more visible more often. I have some sympathy about the “contracts for chums” situation because everything was a mad scramble across the world then and they had to believe a lot of people without due process, but needless to say they could have done better.
 

But the question I was answering was whether I regret my vote, and I really don’t.

[SpacedX]

Glad to see the back of both Corbyn/McDonnell and Trump. Each personified the polarised world that we now live in and served as unwelcome ugly reminders of the consequences and threats posed by political extremes. 

[StanSP]

29 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Glad to see the back of both Corbyn/McDonnell and Trump. Each personified the polarised world that we now live in and served as unwelcome ugly reminders of the consequences and threats posed by political extremes. 

Don't some current politicians still do that?

[SpacedX]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

Don't some current politicians still do that?

Some? The contemporary European political landscape in particular, is riven by polarised extremes, in terms of politicians, parties and the electorate. 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Some? The contemporary European political landscape in particular, is riven by polarised extremes, in terms of politicians, parties and the electorate. 

To be honest I think that East Asia (where there are democracies there) and Australasia are about the only places with democratic governments where such extremes aren't existing. It's creeping in even in the Nordic countries,

[String fellow]

5 hours ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

I despair at your posts, you are as extreme in your frightened scaremongering posts as the conspiracy theorists are with their views.

 

 

 

Not once have I ever suggested any conspiracy theory or been extreme in any way. But the facts speak for themselves. More people have already died in the UK from Covid-19 in the last 9 months than were killed in over 5 years by German bombing in WWII. I've already lost one friend to the virus and another only just got through it. Even the PM almost didn't survive it. Until a vaccine finally arrives, if we play down the continuing threat, we will do so at our own and other people's peril.

[reynard]

I think it is time for a bit of "trading". Shops and businesses have had to close to allow schools to continue to open. Now it  is time for that to be reversed. The next few weeks are more important to retail futures in this country than a couple of weeks at school which, with some radical thinking, could see a one-off extension into the long summer vacation and a shortening of the Easter holidays to make up for time.

Looks very much like Leicestershire and Leicester will be in the strictest tier as the levels of infection across most of the county and city are very high right now.

Businesses simply have to be allowed to open up that are now closed although with strict guidelines of course.

As for "saving Christmas" this is just a vote grabing policy by a feckless Governement. It makes no logical sense whatsoever to allow mass mixing of households right now. With a possible vaccine looking just a few month away it would be better to target Easter as a time for family gatherings.