Coronavirus Thread

[Pliskin]

18 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

Odds on.

I mean, it’s not like the government make knee jerk decisions is it......

[Pliskin]

7 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

It's amazing how people keep on crowing about personal responsibility while still defending the government, who've shown precious few signs of it themselves over the past few months. The way ministers lined up to rally round Cummings was the most pathetic display of weakness and cowardice I think I've ever seen - and they all knew what the consequences for their loyalty to one man would be.

 

Yes, of course we should all be above rule-breaking because of the actions of one person, but even the most law-abiding citizens in our society felt betrayed by that and will have slightly relaxed what they deemed to be acceptable and unacceptable as a result, even if that was something as innocuous as taking more than the allowed daily exercise at the time or whatever, rather than just wholesale sticking to the rules as was the case before. The government's moral authority to manage this crisis hasn't recovered from that incident and we're all paying for it, whether we consider ourselves responsible people or not.

Collectively we’re getting things wrong. But the government are supposed to lead, and that is exactly what they haven’t done. 
 

Starting with Boris’s bragging of shaking CV patients hands whilst thousands in Italy were dying, not heeding the warnings and not reacting quick enough to a situation that was fast getting out of control. 
 

Everything this government have done is a reaction, there’s been little to no proactive work at all. You can never leave something up the general pop wholly, as there will always be issues people will go against advice, where other will vigorously stick to it. I stood behind a lady in Tesco recently, who had a sunflower lanyard on, no mask, and a packet of fags in her hand complaining that Boris is trying to lock her up like a prisoner.... so again examples of people not having the capacity to understand the gravity of the situation.

 

For me personally, the leadership has been poor, Boris sees himself as the modern day Churchill, but in reality he and his pals have to be held accountable for the lack of action initially, lack of clarity and failure to adequately get a hold on the issue. The virus was already out of control before they took the first step to tackle it, they had already allowed the invasion to happen so to speak. 
 

No party probably would have done any better, Corbyn and labour would have been a ****ing disaster, but this was a opportunity for someone to lead the country out of the worst national crises since WW2..... and they have spectacularly failed. It maintains a collective effort, people have also let themselves down, but as in football the blame lies with those at the top, and ultimately they failed to tackle the issue before is took hold.

Edited 21 December 2020 by Pliskin

[reynard]

19 hours ago, Benguin said:

Absolutely rammed at the test centre I’m working at today. Either people are rushing to get tests so they can justify their rule breaking this Christmas, or cases have shot up. I suspect the former. 

That is not a very forgiving approach is it? have you considered that visiting a nearby elederly relative on Christmas Day is not rule breaking and maybe people want to get a test to see if it safer for them to do so than without a test. I know of several examples of students, prefectly entitled to return home to their parental houses, who had tests to see if they were negative before returning home. If you don't think case numbers have increased then you are living in a fantasy world.

 

[reynard]

4 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Collectively we’re getting things wrong. But the government are supposed to lead, and that is exactly what they haven’t done. 
 

Starting with Boris’s bragging of shaking CV patients hands whilst thousands in Italy were dying, not heeding the warnings and not reacting quick enough to a situation that was fast getting out of control. 
 

Everything this government have done is a reaction, there’s been little to no proactive work at all. You can never leave something up the general pop wholly, as there will always be issues people will go against advice, where other will vigorously stick to it. I stood behind a lady in Tesco recently, who had a sunflower lanyard on, no mask, and a packet of fags in her hand complaining that Boris is trying to lock her up like a prisoner.... so again examples of people not having the capacity to understand the gravity of the situation.

 

For me personally, the leadership has been poor, Boris sees himself as the modern day Churchill, but in reality he and his pals have to be held accountable for the lack of action initially, lack of clarity and failure to adequately get a hold on the issue. The virus was already out of control before they took the first step to tackle it, they had already allowed the invasion to happen so to speak. 
 

No party probably would have done any better, Coryby and labour would have been a ****ing disaster, but this was a opportunity for someone to lead the country out of the worst national crises since WW2..... and they have spectacularly failed. It maintains a collective effort, people have also let themselves down, but as in football the blame lies with those at the top, and ultimately they failed to tackle the issue before is took hold.

So much I agree with here. I think we can see from around the world that very few countries have handled this well. But here we have a specific problem, for me, and that is we have a Prime Minister who really only wants to be popular, a sort of greek/latin quoting comedic Churchill. But right now that isn't what we need. We need someone fully prepared to be unpopular from the strat to take the decisions that hurt short term but long term are beneficial. The whole Christmas issue exemplifes this completely. He wanted to do the popular thing not the right thing. It has been obvious for weeks that allowing such a mixing of people in their own houses even for a few days was going to be disastrous in terms of exponential growth of the pandemic but he blundered on regardless until the science basically became so desperate that he had not choice. The reaction from around the world to travel from the Uk shows how seriously other governments view our current situation.

[StanSP]

Amazing

 

 

 

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

What the government should have done was call it, The Lockdown Challenge and posted it on Facebook.

 

The virus would've been gone by now (though you'd still have people refusing to go out until they'd won.)

[Facecloth]

44 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

What the government should have done was call it, The Lockdown Challenge and posted it on Facebook.

 

The virus would've been gone by now (though you'd still have people refusing to go out until they'd won.)

That is actually genuis.

[Jon the Hat]

I for one am shocked that the Governments craven approach of blaming this new strain of the virus for the restrictions rather than the failure of their previous measures has resulted in travel restrictions.  I mean who could have known?

[daddylonglegs]

2 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Projections.

 

First we had 500000.  Then we had 4000.  Now we have 70%.

 

Now I'm waking up to the media taking the scaremongering a step further by highlighting the fact that there may be food shortages.  Cue people panic buying during the one week people panic anyway.

 

There's no way back for Boris from this imo.  

 

 

Of course there is because there's no alternative that the rest of the country can get behind. 

 

He and Trump are living breathing examples that once you're in power, you can do and say as you please and not be held accountable, because the following week it'll all be forgotten! 

[Buce]

I swear, there are some on here that would forgive the Tories anything. Bozo could start sending kids up chimneys and they'd justify it by saying some shit like "work is the best way out of poverty", and then go on to blame feckless parents.

 

That kind of blind loyalty is for your football team, not your government of choice.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

7 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

It's a bit late to start worrying about the economy now Rishi

 

My lockdown savings have basically doubled my house deposit, so at least some good will have come from 2020.

This. Not driving anywhere, not being able to go to the pub or football or gigs, not bothering with just nipping out for a drive-through dinner or coffee, not bothering with buying much in the way of new clothes - have saved a fortune since March without even trying. That money is going on my new house, no way I'm just going to go out and waste it all for the sake of it

[bovril]

11 minutes ago, Buce said:

I swear, there are some on here that would forgive the Tories anything. Bozo could start sending kids up chimneys and they'd justify it by saying some shit like "work is the best way out of poverty", and then go on to blame feckless parents.

 

That kind of blind loyalty is for your football team, not your government of choice.

We're all guilty of something similar in different contexts. We find it very difficult to accept that our choices have negative consequences.

[foxile5]

2 minutes ago, bovril said:

We're all guilty of something similar in different contexts. We find it very difficult to accept that our choices have negative consequences.

Governments should always be looked at under a highly critical lens, such is their power. 

 

This weird 'your team vs my team' is highly unhealthy. We've got a government in power who are actively making society worse and some people are reluctant to see any criticism out of some craven loyalty. 

 

It's fine if you don't want to accept your team/favourite player/loved musician is doing a bad job. If you can't look at Johnson and see the mistakes then there's a problem. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

French borders set to reopen within hours, so what's changed?

[bovril]

Just now, foxile5 said:

Governments should always be looked at under a highly critical lens, such is their power. 

 

This weird 'your team vs my team' is highly unhealthy. We've got a government in power who are actively making society worse and some people are reluctant to see any criticism out of some craven loyalty. 

 

It's fine if you don't want to accept your team/favourite player/loved musician is doing a bad job. If you can't look at Johnson and see the mistakes then there's a problem. 

Sure, I was just making the point that cognitive dissonance is something we all suffer from. But I agree that the defence of the government is sometimes baffling.

[bovril]

Just now, Leicester_Loyal said:

French borders set to reopen within hours, so what's changed?

It was a hasty and harsh move but I kind of understand it. The UK Gov was shouting 'fire' in a theatre, it's not surprising neighbouring countries reacted as they did.

 

There is also the theory that this is France reminding the UK what a no-deal Brexit would look like. 

[SpacedX]

2 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Governments should always be looked at under a highly critical lens, such is their power. 

 

This weird 'your team vs my team' is highly unhealthy. We've got a government in power who are actively making society worse and some people are reluctant to see any criticism out of some craven loyalty. 

 

It's fine if you don't want to accept your team/favourite player/loved musician is doing a bad job. If you can't look at Johnson and see the mistakes then there's a problem. 

Absolutely - but it works both ways, particularly in the era of political polarisation that we now inhabit. The last two Tory administrations have been dealt unplayable hands, doesn't exonerate their actions and decisions though and the mixed messages, hypocrisy and appalling communication during this crisis has been shameful. Saying that, to suppose (and I'm not suggesting that you do), that handling of Brexit or the current pandemic wouldn't have been equally shambolic under the watch of another party is delusional. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

It was a hasty and harsh move but I kind of understand it. The UK Gov was shouting 'fire' in a theatre, it's not surprising neighbouring countries reacted as they did.

 

There is also the theory that this is France reminding the UK what a no-deal Brexit would look like. 

Yeah, but if the new strain or whatever really is this bad surely they'd keep the borders closed? It's not like it's suddenly less deadly a day later.

 

Could be the second point, politics at play!

[bovril]

Just now, Leicester_Loyal said:

Yeah, but if the new strain or whatever really is this bad surely they'd keep the borders closed? It's not like it's suddenly less deadly a day later.

 

Could be the second point, politics at play!

They might not have been so sure. We assume that people making these decisions are always rational actors with all the information to hand. If they had any inkling this variant could cause havoc they would've closed the border. 

But yes could be politics, as you said.

[Mapperleyfox]

4 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Chances of an announcement this week that we’re all into tier 4 as of Boxing Day? 

I'd say there's every chance - why else would the media suddenly be telling us about this deadly new strain that'll spread through the country like wildfire?

 

They've already planned another lockdown in until at least Easter is my personal opinion.

[bovril]

Might as well have a national lockdown from Boxing Day til mid to late January like many other countries in Europe. Surely we've learned by now that pussying around fails to suppress transmission or protect the economy. 

[Greg2607]

17 hours ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

My partners daughter works in the arts, so that’s destroyed, took a bar job to help pay the bills, that’s destroyed, she was due to come home Sunday, no food, no money, no presents absolutely nothing in London. I’m not sure what else she was supposed to do.

I really sympathise with some people, they have little choice but to get home.

and in that example, I get it. Especially if she isn't planning on going back to London.  But i'm confident in saying that everyone travelling out of london didn't have the same set of circumstances. 

[Buce]

6 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Absolutely - but it works both ways, particularly in the era of political polarisation that we now inhabit. The last two Tory administrations have been dealt unplayable hands, doesn't exonerate their actions and decisions though and the mixed messages, hypocrisy and appalling communication during this crisis has been shameful. Saying that, to suppose (and I'm not suggesting that you do), that handling of Brexit or the current pandemic wouldn't have been equally shambolic under the watch of another party is delusional. 

 

I can't think of a single left-leaning poster who would have given Labour a free pass if they were in power and making a similar fvck up.

[Nalis]

Yeah cant blame other countries for banning travel from the UK. Must be tons of new strains though, its just that the UK and Denmark spotted theirs.

 

No international travel doesnt change much for the vast majority of us as most of us cant even get out of our pockets of the UK let alone out of the country. 

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

I'm a Labour supporter but I don't and didn't bang on about how Tony Blair was only ever doing his best or he had difficult choices or whatever, when it came to him having to make the big decisions in a highly pressured environment. If I did that I'd be a mug.