Coronavirus Thread

[Nod.E]

17 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Absolutely - but it works both ways, particularly in the era of political polarisation that we now inhabit. The last two Tory administrations have been dealt unplayable hands, doesn't exonerate their actions and decisions though and the mixed messages, hypocrisy and appalling communication during this crisis has been shameful. Saying that, to suppose (and I'm not suggesting that you do), that handling of Brexit or the current pandemic wouldn't have been equally shambolic under the watch of another party is delusional. 

Shambolic? Probably yes. Equally so? Surely not.

[bovril]

16 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Absolutely - but it works both ways, particularly in the era of political polarisation that we now inhabit. The last two Tory administrations have been dealt unplayable hands, doesn't exonerate their actions and decisions though and the mixed messages, hypocrisy and appalling communication during this crisis has been shameful. Saying that, to suppose (and I'm not suggesting that you do), that handling of Brexit or the current pandemic wouldn't have been equally shambolic under the watch of another party is delusional. 

It really wouldn't. And it's pointless speculating anyway as this is the government people voted for and got. 

[RowlattsFox]

Everything, perhaps understandably, is reactive and panicky when any new threat or worry is occurring. That's across Europe as well so not just a complaint that can be thrown at Boris. That's why everyone has been so quick to stop flights and international travel into their countries, whilst they assess the danger. 

 

Boris has proven himself to be rubbish in a crisis, as many would have expected I'm sure, but he wasn't elected to be in charge of a crisis (although I know there is always that possibility) Would Boris have been given the leadership if the aftermath of Brexit was handled better? and would he have won the election? I guess we'll never know but Boris gained a lot of support he wouldn't ordinarily have had due to one thing only.  

 

Worth noting though, that most european leaders have had the same difficulties. Do people in France, Spain, Italy etc have such disgust at how this has been handled?

Edited 21 December 2020 by RowlattsFox

[SpacedX]

Just now, Buce said:

 

I can't think of a single left-leaning poster who would have given Labour a free pass if they were in power and making a similar fvck up.

I can.

 

But I do agree, there are plenty of apologists for the current shambles at Westminster. 

[SpacedX]

5 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

Shambolic? Probably yes. Equally so? Surely not.

Under Corbyn and McDonnell? Really? 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

4 hours ago, zorro en españa said:

Are you really suggesting the Government should be beyond reproach, question or accountability?

No, not in the slightest. All Govts should be held to account.

They've fvcked up numerous things but equally people should take some responsibility themselves.

I don't think that's a ridiculous viewpoint to have.

[Costock_Fox]

16 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

Everything, perhaps understandably, is reactive and panicky when any new threat or worry is occurring. That's across Europe as well so not just a complaint that can be thrown at Boris. That's why everyone has been so quick to stop flights and international travel into their countries, whilst they assess the danger. 

 

Boris has proven himself to be rubbish in a crisis, as many would have expected I'm sure, but he wasn't elected to be in charge of a crisis (although I know there is always that possibility) Would Boris have been given the leadership if the aftermath of Brexit was handled better? and would he have won the election? I guess we'll never know but Boris gained a lot of support he wouldn't ordinarily have had due to one thing only.  

 

Worth noting though, that most european leaders have had the same difficulties. Do people in France, Spain, Italy etc have such disgust at how this has been handled?

Weren’t most of them smashing city’s up a few months ago?

 

The whole thing is so divisive that I can’t imagine many countries are sitting there saying anyone has got it completely correct. 

[yorkie1999]

8 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

French borders set to reopen within hours, so what's changed?

Bojo reminded them that France would be Germany if it wasn't for Granpapa defeating the nasty hun.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

Weren’t most of them smashing city’s up a few months ago?

 

The whole thing is so divisive that I can’t imagine many countries are sitting there saying anyone has got it completely correct. 

There aren't - this has hit pretty much everyone outside of Antarctica hard and everyone has gotten something wrong.

 

There are, however, degrees of wrongness that show in the number of cases and deaths per capita in the different countries, as well as economic data...and how those metrics have played out is going to be mostly the responsibility of both the government of the country and the actions of the populace within it.

 

[Jon the Hat]

57 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Governments should always be looked at under a highly critical lens, such is their power. 

 

This weird 'your team vs my team' is highly unhealthy. We've got a government in power who are actively making society worse and some people are reluctant to see any criticism out of some craven loyalty. 

 

It's fine if you don't want to accept your team/favourite player/loved musician is doing a bad job. If you can't look at Johnson and see the mistakes then there's a problem. 

We can agree they aren't doing a great job of handling Covid, but I do disagree they are actively making society worse.  They might believe the route to a better society is a different route to yours, but to suggest actively making society worse is nonsense.  If Corbyn had won, I would at least credit him with wanting to improve the lot of minorities, even if I believe his methods don't work.

[Jon the Hat]

26 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Under Corbyn and McDonnell? Really? 

They would have been worse I think.  McDonnell would likely have done similar measures to Sunak, but Corbyn would have been even more lost than Boris I think.

That said there are clearly people out there who could have managed this better, although I am not sure any of them are involved in UK politics.  Blair would have been pretty good in this crisis I think.

[bovril]

19 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

No, not in the slightest. All Govts should be held to account.

What does "held to account" mean though?

 

I would've been out of my job in April if I'd ****ed up as badly as some of the cabinet. 

[Buce]

10 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Bojo reminded them that France would be Germany if it wasn't for Granpapa defeating the nasty hun.

 

That is a myth.

 

Without American involvement France would either not have been liberated at all, or by the Russians if it was.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

4 minutes ago, bovril said:

What does "held to account" mean though?

I would've been out of my job in April if I'd ****ed up as badly as some of the cabinet. 

All Govts get closely scrutinised during their term by opposition parties, the press etc and then the electorate make their choice at the next election.

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

That is a myth.

Without American involvement France would either not have been liberated at all, or by the Russians if it was.

Thanks for heads up, always knew my grandfather was just on a bender on the continent.

 

what a **** 

[Buce]

Just now, UpTheLeagueFox said:

All Govts get closely scrutinised during their term by opposition parties, the press etc and then the electorate make their choice at the next election.

 

The press? 

 

The British press is as close to a government mouthpiece as you'll get outside of a totalitarian regime.

 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

4 minutes ago, Buce said:

The press? 

The British press is as close to a government mouthpiece as you'll get outside of a totalitarian regime.

You genuinely don't think the Govt have been given a seriously big kicking during this pandemic?

[Jattdogg]

51 minutes ago, bovril said:

Might as well have a national lockdown from Boxing Day til mid to late January like many other countries in Europe. Surely we've learned by now that pussying around fails to suppress transmission or protect the economy. 

The provincial  Ontario government over here is expected to announce a lockdown today starting 1201am december 24th. Woooo fantastic birthday present. I mean i've always been fvcked because of the date of my birthday (same applies to those born in, on, around xmas) but thanks for reminding me of how crap it is lol. I am sure this will lead to mass panic now. Thank goodness i got bog roll to get me through  two weeks. Who wants to use the desi style empty plastic coke bottle  filled with water method?

 

All lame jokes aside, if you want to help with cutting down the numbers then wouldn't lockdown before xmas make sense so people dont get together? Sure it won't be popular at all but whats the end goal here? Containment?

 

Interesting times, hope you are all safe and well.

 

 

[The whole world smiles]

I am absolutely convinced that if a Labour government had proceeded over the last beyond words shambolic 10 months there would have been some sort of coup by now. 

[Jon the Hat]

6 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

The press? 

 

The British press is as close to a government mouthpiece as you'll get outside of a totalitarian regime.

 

Tell that to Anna Milkhailova of the Mail on Sunday who is kicking the Government this morning for saying Ferguson quit SAGE and NERVTAG when minutes now show he is still sitting on NERVTAG.

[yorkie1999]

16 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

That is a myth.

 

Without American involvement France would either not have been liberated at all, or by the Russians if it was.

You'd better tell Bojo that then.

[FerrisBueller]

This 'would an opposition party have handled it better' question is pointless. I would however say quite confidently that they wouldn't have banged out these multi-million pound contracts for test and trace etc to their mates.

[Innovindil]

4 minutes ago, FerrisBueller said:

This 'would an opposition party have handled it better' question is pointless. I would however say quite confidently that they wouldn't have banged out these multi-million pound contracts for test and trace etc to their mates.

I actually agree. They'd probably be getting us into another needless, expensive (in cash as well as lives) war like the last time they had power. 

 

[Leicester_Loyal]

I despair at the choices of parties we've got, both the main ones are totally useless.

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

It was a hasty and harsh move but I kind of understand it. The UK Gov was shouting 'fire' in a theatre, it's not surprising neighbouring countries reacted as they did.

 

There is also the theory that this is France reminding the UK what a no-deal Brexit would look like. 

i'm sure that this was too goo an opportunity to miss - i suspect that they will lift it because there is no evidence over the past nine months that lorry drivers have been a source of infections  and more importantly, that there are many hundreds of french drivers caught up in the scrum to get out of kent .....