Premier League 2020/21 Thread

[filbertway]

On the face of it these seem like positive tweaks to me.

[KingsX]

15 hours ago, AjcW said:

Can explain a lot away with the injuries...  But difficult to understand how Salah, Mane and Firmino have suddenly turned into league one players when they’re 3 vs 2/3 😂

 

[WigstonWanderer]

4 hours ago, filbertway said:

So I'm watching Adelaide v Newcastle now and there was a very contentious moment where it looks like the Adelaide player was accidentally clipped and went down. 10 seconds VAR and they decided to stick with the refs call of no penalty. If that's in the prem then it'd be looked at for 2 or 3 minutes at every angle in ultra slow motion.

 

It's just consistently better in the A league for me.

 

I don't doubt there'll be the odd rubbish use of it, which will be down to the officials on the day. For me though, generally the A league officials use the technology much better than the prem officials.

 

 

I probably don’t watch as much A league as @Aus Fox, but In the matches I have watched this season VAR seems to be much less intrusive than in the PL and decisions seem more reasonable. I know it isn’t very popular over here but I’d say it’s better run than in the PL.

Edited 5 March 2021 by WigstonWanderer

[UniFox21]

45 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

 

We'll be in a similar place as before, all open for interpretation 

[Super_horns]

29 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

We'll be in a similar place as before, all open for interpretation 

And the goal scorer will still be pulled up for handball if they touch it with their hands so might still be controversy.

 

Apparently Arsene  Wenger wants to change the offside rule so it doesn’t punish attackers as much

Edited 5 March 2021 by Super_horns

[Lambert09]

6 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

And the goal scorer will still be pulled up for handball if they touch it with their hands so might still be controversy.

That’s a good spot. What a pointless rule if that’s true 

[Hoopla10]

4 hours ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

But that's nothing to do with VAR and everything to do with the current handball rule, right? VAR worked perfectly in that instance - a goal was scored that looked perfectly good, but the ref missed the handball in the build up, the VAR spotted it and the goal was correctly ruled out - based on the current rules of the game re: attacking handballs. 

Yeah but like I say I don't see this as a VAR issue, it's a referee/authorities issue. If we can't expect them to do their normal jobs properly how can we expect them to make VAR also work. It's a systemic problem where VAR is constantly blamed even though it's a symptom of the problem not the actual problem. Or at least VAR magnifies the problem. If you get what I mean. People on MOTD moan that they're always talking/moaning about VAR, well they have some short term memory problems because before VAR they spent probably as long moaning about refereeing decisions being blatantly wrong and arguing we need something like VAR to "help" them. Get rid of VAR and we all go back to moaning about refs/authorities, so I'm thinking VAR's not the problem.  

Edited 5 March 2021 by Hoopla10

[KrefelderFox666]

1 hour ago, Super_horns said:

And the goal scorer will still be pulled up for handball if they touch it with their hands so might still be controversy.

 

Apparently Arsene  Wenger wants to change the offside rule so it doesn’t punish attackers as much

I would agree. I think they should measure the feet only, not any body part you can score with. Therefore if the defender is running up the pitch (playing offside trap or just running forward) and the attacker is heading towards goal, the attacker is OK as long as his feet are in line or behind the defenders feet. Even if the upper body (arm/shoulders) look miles apart (offside). I am all for giving the attacker more of an advantage. That way it is fairly simple to measure with the lines (yes you still have when was the ball played, where do the feet start/end etc.). It will eradicate the ridiculous decisions like Werner yesterday and was it Bamford at Palace?

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, jammie82uk said:

 

That’s good for incidents like last night but kelechi’s accidental handball goal at Norwich last season would still be disallowed as he scored rather than a team mate. 

 

and if a player charges down a clearance with his hands by his side and it strikes his arm and falls for a team mate to poke it home, then the  goal will be given ...... that allows for var and refs to be judging what is a handball which allows for charges of bias ..... apparently ngolo’s handball last night wasn’t handball so if that happened in Chelsea’s box and the ball dropped for Werner to score (yes I know), then it would be allowed ..... Happy with that ???
 

 

1 hour ago, jammie82uk said:

IFAB have also clarified where the arm measurements should start 

 

“whereby the arm ends at the bottom of the armpit, must be used when judging whether a player is in an offside position”

So handball stays at the sleeve but offside reverts to last seasons armpit ..... How long before someone scores or assists with their upper arm which was actually offside ?  it won’t be given as offside !  Cue mass hysteria ! 

[peach0000]

2 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

I would agree. I think they should measure the feet only, not any body part you can score with. Therefore if the defender is running up the pitch (playing offside trap or just running forward) and the attacker is heading towards goal, the attacker is OK as long as his feet are in line or behind the defenders feet. Even if the upper body (arm/shoulders) look miles apart (offside). I am all for giving the attacker more of an advantage. That way it is fairly simple to measure with the lines (yes you still have when was the ball played, where do the feet start/end etc.). It will eradicate the ridiculous decisions like Werner yesterday and was it Bamford at Palace?

I think the idea of thicker lines would work better. If the lines cross then the advantage is given to the attacker. I think this is done in the eredivise (or somewhere else) seems a sensible compromise to me 

[Les-TA-Jon]

45 minutes ago, Hoopla10 said:

Yeah but like I say I don't see this as a VAR issue, it's a referee/authorities issue. If we can't expect them to do their normal jobs properly how can we expect them to make VAR also work. It's a systemic problem where VAR is constantly blamed even though it's a symptom of the problem not the actual problem. Or at least VAR magnifies the problem. If you get what I mean. People on MOTD moan that they're always talking/moaning about VAR, well they have some short term memory problems because before VAR they spent probably as long moaning about refereeing decisions being blatantly wrong and arguing we need something like VAR to "help" them. Get rid of VAR and we all go back to moaning about refs/authorities, so I'm thinking VAR's not the problem.  

Sure - but in this instance the Fulham handball decision was 100% correct (based on current handball rule) - nothing to do with VAR (as you agree) and nothing to do with referee incompetence (since it was 100% correct decision) 

Edited 5 March 2021 by Les-TA-Jon

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Super_horns said:

And the goal scorer will still be pulled up for handball if they touch it with their hands so might still be controversy.

 

Apparently Arsene  Wenger wants to change the offside rule so it doesn’t punish attackers as much

 

1 hour ago, Lambert09 said:

That’s a good spot. What a pointless rule if that’s true 

The law was changed to stop goals being scored with the arm  (wolves had one a couple, years ago).  It can’t be right for the ball to enter the goal from a hand or arm ??

 

the authorities didn’t trust officials to interpret whether the handball assisted with the goal or was a complete accident ..... i can see a can of worms being opened here where inconsistencies abound and some goals are given whilst others are not ....

[jammie82uk]

20 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

That’s good for incidents like last night but kelechi’s accidental handball goal at Norwich last season would still be disallowed as he scored rather than a team mate. 

 

and if a player charges down a clearance with his hands by his side and it strikes his arm and falls for a team mate to poke it home, then the  goal will be given ...... that allows for var and refs to be judging what is a handball which allows for charges of bias ..... apparently ngolo’s handball last night wasn’t handball so if that happened in Chelsea’s box and the ball dropped for Werner to score (yes I know), then it would be allowed ..... Happy with that ???
 

 

So handball stays at the sleeve but offside reverts to last seasons armpit ..... How long before someone scores or assists with their upper arm which was actually offside ?  it won’t be given as offside !  Cue mass hysteria ! 

Handball and offside will be measured from the same spot, the bottom of the players armpit, which obviously is still open to interpretation of where that is

Edited 5 March 2021 by jammie82uk

[AjcW]

1 hour ago, KingsX said:

 

I'm 100% not getting involved in any 'pushing the boundaries' medicine talk given we had an ageing team that turned into un-injurable title winners  

[st albans fox]

6 minutes ago, jammie82uk said:

Handball and offside will be measured from the same spot, the bottom of the players armpit, which obviously is still open to interpretation of where that is

Actually, I think that hasn’t changed so it’s still the ‘sleeve’

 

 

[Strokes]

I don’t understand how they can change the rules mid season and still be deemed a fair competition.

[jammie82uk]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Actually, I think that hasn’t changed so it’s still the ‘sleeve’

 

 

it has changed
 

the Law 12 definition for handball, whereby the arm ends at the bottom of the armpit, must be used when judging whether a player is in an offside position

 

https://www.theifab.com/news/annual-general-meeting-2021

[jayfox26]

4 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I don’t understand how they can change the rules mid season and still be deemed a fair competition.

The rules are still the same for everyone though so doesn't really make a difference. 

[jammie82uk]

2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I don’t understand how they can change the rules mid season and still be deemed a fair competition.

These new rules come in on July 1st unless the league votes them in earlier 

[Corky]

6 hours ago, Super_horns said:

You wonder who came up with the decision to rule out goals for such tight offsides and this handball rule?

I cannot believe there were people complaining before about such goals ?

As I say must make the assistants feel bad and as if they have made an error which they haven’t.

Offside was designed to stop goal hanging, I doubt the lawmakers expected technology to rule armpits offside 150 years later.

[Strokes]

6 minutes ago, jayfox26 said:

The rules are still the same for everyone though so doesn't really make a difference. 

Well it does if it affected games earlier in the season that it no longer does.

[Fox92]

41 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

I think the idea of thicker lines would work better. If the lines cross then the advantage is given to the attacker. I think this is done in the eredivise (or somewhere else) seems a sensible compromise to me 

If they need to draw lines then the attacker should be deemed as level. All this shite the arms are offside yet he cannot score with him arm.

[peach0000]

Just now, Fox92 said:

If they need to draw lines then the attacker should be deemed as level. All this shite the arms are offside yet he cannot score with him arm.

Not necessarily as camera angles can be pretty deceiving. I’ve seen instances this season where a player has looked well onside but when lines have been drawn it’s not even close. Equally I’ve seen it got the other way where they look well off but in reality are comfortably onside.

 

Lines are needed for certainty. The only question is how and when they should be used for me. I don’t think a goal should be being ruled out by VAR when they are a toenail offside which is why thicker lines and overlapping meaning onside idea could come in. If a goal is ruled offside and is proved on by any even the narrowest margin that should count too. It would give the advantage back to the attacker while being accurate.

[Lambert09]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

 

The law was changed to stop goals being scored with the arm  (wolves had one a couple, years ago).  It can’t be right for the ball to enter the goal from a hand or arm ??

 

the authorities didn’t trust officials to interpret whether the handball assisted with the goal or was a complete accident ..... i can see a can of worms being opened here where inconsistencies abound and some goals are given whilst others are not ....

So the ball can accidentally touch an arm as an assist but if it accidentally touches an arm before you hammer home it doesnt count? 

 

Its the consistency that doesnt make sense with this. 

 

If the ball brushes your arm in a scramble, you fire it home, its dissallowed. But in the same situation you, square it to someone to tap in... thats suddenly ok. 

 

If I was a striker and I realised id touched it with my arm, id just look to pass it now

 

 

 

 

[Hoopla10]

1 hour ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Sure - but in this instance the Fulham handball decision was 100% correct (based on current handball rule) - nothing to do with VAR (as you agree) and nothing to do with referee incompetence (since it was 100% correct decision) 

Yes I'm agreeing with that. But the rule is wrong. That doesn't happen in a vacuum. That rule STILL robbed Fulham of a goal. I keep saying it but I'm blaming the entire system of referees/authority body for incompetence. Repeatedly VAR and the refs on the field and the rules have been wrong. Not just with VAR but long before. Almost as if VAR isn't really the issue. I don't know whether you're being pedantic by trying to nail me to that single incident but it seems like a shallow argument that avoids facing any larger issue.