Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Just now, Flappit said:

I suspect Madders could absolutely boss it playing in the Italian or Spanish top flights where there is more time and less urgency. In the premier league, the speed and fitness levels require a different approach. I think this is why Pogba is struggling in the PL too - different pace. In Spain/Italy when he moves, he'll be mustard. He needs to adapt. At the moment I don't think he could even look good at Man City or Liverpool as he's just to ponderous in his approach.  Would much rather see a return to Praet & Tielemans for the time being.

Agree...  This is the gist of all the post Everton posts.... but is Brendan watching the same game as us?

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

Whereas Praet does something to help you win every time he starts, whether it shows up in the scoresheet or not.

Arsenal: 60 mins 14 passes 63% passing success rate 0 tackles 0 interceptions 0 key passes 1 clearance 1 cross

 

Braga: 45 mins 22 passes 86% passing success 0 tackles 0 interceptions 1 key pass

 

Aston Villa: 68 mins 20 passes 80% passing rate 0 tackles 0 interceptions 0 passes

 

All of these performances from praet were worse than what maddison did last night. I feel like some on here would rather our players hide from the game and not do anything at all rather than get on the ball and potentially frustrate them. For the record i dont think maddison did nearly enough last night but praet is not the answer, has a tendency to hide from the game and we lose a lot of control when we have him on the field.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When he first signed for us it was notable that he wanted to get the ball with his back to goal, turn and run at players and we had been crying out for a midfielder who could do that for ****ing years. He did it once last night and I think it’s the first time I’ve seen him do it since Sheff United away last season. I really feel like he’s lost sight of what made him so good in the first place and he’s tried to turn himself in to the all round playmaker that he thinks we need and it just isn’t him, when I watch him I feel like he’s almost trying to play exactly like Tielemans.

 

In my opinion he would look 10x the player he often does at the minute if he just went back to basics, looked to receive the ball with his back to goal and be more direct with his running - it’s his best skill by miles but he just doesn’t utilise it enough. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Manini said:

When he first signed for us it was notable that he wanted to get the ball with his back to goal, turn and run at players and we had been crying out for a midfielder who could do that for ****ing years. He did it once last night and I think it’s the first time I’ve seen him do it since Sheff United away last season. I really feel like he’s lost sight of what made him so good in the first place and he’s tried to turn himself in to the all round playmaker that he thinks we need and it just isn’t him, when I watch him I feel like he’s almost trying to play exactly like Tielemans.

 

In my opinion he would look 10x the player he often does at the minute if he just went back to basics, looked to receive the ball with his back to goal and be more direct with his running - it’s his best skill by miles but he just doesn’t utilise it enough. 

When he first signed for us he was used as a 10 though, now he’s expected to play as an 8 either side of Ndidi and he doesn’t look all that suited to it

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, DanNDH88 said:

When he first signed for us he was used as a 10 though, now he’s expected to play as an 8 either side of Ndidi and he doesn’t look all that suited to it

Yeah I do agree with that. It’s certainly not where I’d have him played but the 10 role seems to have disappeared nowadays in a lot of teams. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Manini said:

When he first signed for us it was notable that he wanted to get the ball with his back to goal, turn and run at players and we had been crying out for a midfielder who could do that for ****ing years. He did it once last night and I think it’s the first time I’ve seen him do it since Sheff United away last season. I really feel like he’s lost sight of what made him so good in the first place and he’s tried to turn himself in to the all round playmaker that he thinks we need and it just isn’t him, when I watch him I feel like he’s almost trying to play exactly like Tielemans.

 

In my opinion he would look 10x the player he often does at the minute if he just went back to basics, looked to receive the ball with his back to goal and be more direct with his running - it’s his best skill by miles but he just doesn’t utilise it enough. 

 

Definitely this. It's so frustrating watching a player who can take the ball in a tight space and beat a man not doing that. 99% of the time we may as well have another Mendy or Dean Hammond in that position. Mix that in with his laid back, slow approach to the game. All we have is an attacking midfielder on 100k a week that slows down our attacks and looks for a simple backwards pass the majority of the time.

 

I don't know if it's on him or Brendan. It's like buying a PS5 to play the remastered version of crash bandicoot

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, kingfox said:

All you need to do is look at the West Brom and Burnley performances in particular, to realise that Praet is far more important than Maddison in the type of system we want to play.

 

You play Praet in the right role and the right system, he’ll offer you far more than Maddison. Praet’s movement in the final third is excellent, he picks up spaces near the flanks, he offers support to the wingers and he plays a key role in the link up play. He was a big reason as to why we smashed West Brom and Burnley.

 

Don’t get me wrong, he’s been poor in some games, but in those games he wasn’t playing in the role that he played against WBA and Burnley for example. Some of his “hiding” performances have come when we’ve played 3 at the back, a system that clearly doesn’t suit us.

 

You look at our best performances of the season though, West Brom away, Burnley home, Man City, Leeds and Arsenal away, Praet started every single one of those games.

 

Two of our worst performances of the season against West Ham and last night against Everton, he didn’t start. 
 

Last night especially, we played the same system that we played when we destroyed WBA and Burnley, yet last night we were piss poor and couldn’t break Everton down, why? Because our number 10 in Maddison, on the ball he slows down play, and off the ball he stays far too central, and is stagnant in his movement. The same applies to the wingers, when we played this system last season, Barnes and Perez got slagged off many times, because they didn’t offer enough going forward.

 

If Praet had played last night in this system, he would have played the exact same role, he did against WBA and Burnley. As I said above, he would have picked up space near the flanks, and he would have offered support and link up play with the wingers. That’s why he was influential against WBA and Burnley, and he was a big part as to why we were so dangerous down the flanks in those games.

..just reading your post, just goes to prove that sometimes Rodger's needs to make a big call, but he's not up to it!!!

 Sometimes a player will react in a way you hope he would, by taking him out of the game, instead of watching him flounder.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, kingfox said:

All you need to do is look at the West Brom and Burnley performances in particular, to realise that Praet is far more important than Maddison in the type of system we want to play.

 

You play Praet in the right role and the right system, he’ll offer you far more than Maddison. Praet’s movement in the final third is excellent, he picks up spaces near the flanks, he offers support to the wingers and he plays a key role in the link up play. He was a big reason as to why we smashed West Brom and Burnley.

 

Don’t get me wrong, he’s been poor in some games, but in those games he wasn’t playing in the role that he played against WBA and Burnley for example. Some of his “hiding” performances have come when we’ve played 3 at the back, a system that clearly doesn’t suit us.

 

You look at our best performances of the season though, West Brom away, Burnley home, Man City, Leeds and Arsenal away, Praet started every single one of those games.

 

Two of our worst performances of the season against West Ham and last night against Everton, he didn’t start. 
 

Last night especially, we played the same system that we played when we destroyed WBA and Burnley, yet last night we were piss poor and couldn’t break Everton down, why? Because our number 10 in Maddison, on the ball he slows down play, and off the ball he stays far too central, and is stagnant in his movement. The same applies to the wingers, when we played this system last season, Barnes and Perez got slagged off many times, because they didn’t offer enough going forward.

 

If Praet had played last night in this system, he would have played the exact same role, he did against WBA and Burnley. As I said above, he would have picked up space near the flanks, and he would have offered support and link up play with the wingers. That’s why he was influential against WBA and Burnley, and he was a big part as to why we were so dangerous down the flanks in those games.

He played well against west brom and burnley, but, west brom has won 1 game in their last 14 including when they were in the championship and burnley was having an injury crisis with most of their usually solid backline out, Everton is an entirely different beast and they played 4 solid centre backs against us.

 

The Aston Villa game was one where we played Praet in this system, against a much more open defense than the one we saw the other night in Everton and Praet went missing, as he regularly does for us in a 433. He's fine when we're playing west brom and burnley but against a team like aston villa that have mcginn, douglas luiz and barkley in the midfield Praet goes missing. I mean people were freaking out when we looked fluid with him on the field against AEK's B team and he hardly unlocked them, we relied on a mistake and a driving run from barnes for goals, whenever praet got the ball in their 3rd he messed up the final ball.

 

And for the record he was bad against arsenal, we didnt register a shot on target with him on the field (also look at stats posted in comment you replied to)

Edited by honeybradger
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, honeybradger said:

Arsenal: 60 mins 14 passes 63% passing success rate 0 tackles 0 interceptions 0 key passes 1 clearance 1 cross

 

Braga: 45 mins 22 passes 86% passing success 0 tackles 0 interceptions 1 key pass

 

Aston Villa: 68 mins 20 passes 80% passing rate 0 tackles 0 interceptions 0 passes

 

All of these performances from praet were worse than what maddison did last night. I feel like some on here would rather our players hide from the game and not do anything at all rather than get on the ball and potentially frustrate them. For the record i dont think maddison did nearly enough last night but praet is not the answer, has a tendency to hide from the game and we lose a lot of control when we have him on the field.

You are completely missing the point. Maddison is padding his stats in games like last night. It’s becoming a recurrent trend that against teams who sit in a deep block Maddison starts coming deep to find the ball, this is pointless. Mendy and Tielemans have the role in the double pivot of moving us up the pitch, we need Maddison to be in the final third not collecting the ball off the centre halves. 
 

He needs to be focused on finding space in between the lines or create space by drifting into half spaces or moving slightly wider to link with the wingers, yet he wasn’t doing that last night. Praet is a selfless player in that he does a lot of running without the ball, he makes movements to drag defenders away so that another player can then manipulate the space.
 

I’m adamant that unless we go back to a 4-1-4-1 with Ndidi as the single pivot and abandon this new deeper playmaker role that Tielemans has been playing this season, we will not look a cohesive unit. Playing Maddison and Tielemans in a double pivot at the minute is looking like Gerrard and Lampard playing together for England. Maddison has to understand that he needs to compliment Tielemans’s new role and not try and compete to fulfil the same role. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

He played well against west brom and burnley, but, west brom has won 1 game in their last 14 including when they were in the championship and burnley was having an injury crisis with most of their usually solid backline out, Everton is an entirely different beast and they played 4 solid centre backs against us.

 

The Aston Villa game was one where we played Praet in this system, against a much more open defense than the one we saw the other night in Everton and Praet went missing, as he regularly does for us in a 433. He's fine when we're playing west brom and burnley but against a team like aston villa that have mcginn, douglas luiz and barkley in the midfield Praet goes missing. I mean people were freaking out when we looked fluid with him on the field against AEK's B team and he hardly unlocked them, we relied on a mistake and a driving run from barnes for goals, whenever praet got the ball in their 3rd he messed up the final ball.

 

And for the record he was bad against arsenal, we didnt register a shot on target with him on the field (also look at stats posted in comment you replied to)

Paragraph 1 - It seems you’ve clearly ignored my reasons as to why he was so influential in those games, you can make all he excuses you want in terms of opposition; however in those games, we were so influential down the flanks, because he was the one doing all the movement, offering the support and offering the link up play.

 

Paragraph 2 - You are right about the Villa game, but one key thing about that game was, the fact we were missing Vardy. It was one of those games where we never looked like scoring with Iheanacho up top.

 

Paragraph 3 - He played against Arsenal for the same reason as to why he played against Man City and Leeds. In those games we let the opposition come onto us, what Praet offered in those games is defensively solidity in midfield, and the ability to press those teams. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, GingerrrFox said:

You are completely missing the point. Maddison is padding his stats in games like last night. It’s becoming a recurrent trend that against teams who sit in a deep block Maddison starts coming deep to find the ball, this is pointless. Mendy and Tielemans have the role in the double pivot of moving us up the pitch, we need Maddison to be in the final third not collecting the ball off the centre halves. 
 

He needs to be focused on finding space in between the lines or create space by drifting into half spaces or moving slightly wider to link with the wingers, yet he wasn’t doing that last night. Praet is a selfless player in that he does a lot of running without the ball, he makes movements to drag defenders away so that another player can then manipulate the space.
 

I’m adamant that unless we go back to a 4-1-4-1 with Ndidi as the single pivot and abandon this new deeper playmaker role that Tielemans has been playing this season, we will not look a cohesive unit. Playing Maddison and Tielemans in a double pivot at the minute is looking like Gerrard and Lampard playing together for England. Maddison has to understand that he needs to compliment Tielemans’s new role and not try and compete to fulfil the same role. 

Mendy doesn't know what going forward is. 95% of his passes are sideways or more often backwards. At the top of the defence is a pointless position for him as he just cannot link defence and midfield. He is way too defensively set and minded to do a Roy Keane type role of pushing midfield up the park of play. 

 

Ndidi needs to be top of defence and last night he would have been had Evans not been suspended. Brenda should have replaced Evans with Wes, not Wilf.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Bazly said:

Mendy doesn't know what going forward is. 95% of his passes are sideways or more often backwards. At the top of the defence is a pointless position for him as he just cannot link defence and midfield. He is way too defensively set and minded to do a Roy Keane type role of pushing midfield up the park of play. 

 

Ndidi needs to be top of defence and last night he would have been had Evans not been suspended. Brenda should have replaced Evans with Wes, not Wilf.

Since Ndidi’s injury we haven’t been playing a single pivot/one man sitting in front of the back 4. Tielemans role this season has been as a roaming playmaker with the license to get slightly further forward whilst building the play from the back as well. 
 

Even when Ndidi finally played with Tielemans against Brighton it was a double pivot on a slightly lopsided 4-2-3-1 and not the 4-1-4-1 that we were playing last season, with both Maddison and Tielemans playing as number 8s. 
 

Maddison appears to be struggling to compliment Tielemans in his new role, he needs to focus on the final 3rd, moving to find space. The same cannot be said of Praet who is prepared to do the things Maddison isn’t at this time. Maddison has more footballing ability than Praet but until he finds some consistency and selflessness to his play, he won’t be a better player. That’s why Praet plays for Belgium and Maddison can’t get in the England squad. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Manini said:

When he first signed for us it was notable that he wanted to get the ball with his back to goal, turn and run at players and we had been crying out for a midfielder who could do that for ****ing years. He did it once last night and I think it’s the first time I’ve seen him do it since Sheff United away last season. I really feel like he’s lost sight of what made him so good in the first place and he’s tried to turn himself in to the all round playmaker that he thinks we need and it just isn’t him, when I watch him I feel like he’s almost trying to play exactly like Tielemans.

 

In my opinion he would look 10x the player he often does at the minute if he just went back to basics, looked to receive the ball with his back to goal and be more direct with his running - it’s his best skill by miles but he just doesn’t utilise it enough. 

a  poser and his own biggest fan, not just on last night's evidence but certainly not a team player, a few of our players need a reality check and don't believe the publicity based on a few good games in the season.😎 sorry couldn't find the rose coloured version.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Manini said:

When he first signed for us it was notable that he wanted to get the ball with his back to goal, turn and run at players and we had been crying out for a midfielder who could do that for ****ing years. He did it once last night and I think it’s the first time I’ve seen him do it since Sheff United away last season. I really feel like he’s lost sight of what made him so good in the first place and he’s tried to turn himself in to the all round playmaker that he thinks we need and it just isn’t him, when I watch him I feel like he’s almost trying to play exactly like Tielemans.

 

In my opinion he would look 10x the player he often does at the minute if he just went back to basics, looked to receive the ball with his back to goal and be more direct with his running - it’s his best skill by miles but he just doesn’t utilise it enough. 

...it is now something that he has become concerned about in respect of his England career!!!

The number 10 role has become, for him a problem, only in as much that it is not a format utilised by the present England Boss and the number 8 role is a coveted role which Maddison feels is his only pathway into the full England team. He looks a lot better in the 10 role and it has become a trap for him but it is a position that suits him although I do not believe he is dynamic enough in that role.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...it is now something that he has become concerned about in respect of his England career!!!

The number 10 role has become, for him a problem, only in as much that it is not a format utilised by the present England Boss and the number 8 role is a coveted role which Maddison feels is his only pathway into the full England team. He looks a lot better in the 10 role and it has become a trap for him but it is a position that suits him although I do not believe he is dynamic enough in that role.

 

Hit the nail on the head here, because the “Number 10” role is not currently in vogue in football, Manchester United are currently the only side in the Premier League who use one with Bruno Fernandes. Maddison is doing everything he can to change the perception of him being a Number 10, but that doesn’t stop the fact that he is quite clearly a Number 10 and it’s his best position. 

Edited by GingerrrFox
Link to post
Share on other sites

Played well today, unlucky with the goal being disallowed, showed a surprising turn of pace, unbelievable first touch and great finish. Didn’t look offside to me, any other thoughts on the offside decision looked like it was from a dodgy camera angle and the ball was moving so had already been played 🤷‍♂️

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Still a number 10 for me, or part of a two man attacking midfield pair like we used to see in the first year of Rodgers reign when we steamrolled crap teams but struggled vs the better sides. I am fairly content with Youri sacrificing his attacking abilities and Maddison pushing higher up to support Vardy as I think it's a new style of play for the opposition to have to cope with. Thats the key for us, when teams work us out, we make subtle changes to maintain efficiency. We have players who can adapt. Great 2-3 games for Maddison in the last month.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...