Maddison

[Ric Flair]

The majority of 2020 he was pretty poor, whether that's injuries which were an issue or the general poor form of the team up to the end of the season, I'm not sure. He's done ok so far this season and is starting to step it up. In this system I'd really prefer him pushing right up and being the #10 but wherever he plays he needs that burning desire to make the difference. There's no point him being anonymous, he has to have the team built around him otherwise he's pointless. I think he will have a good December, got a feeling. Get the winner vs Man Utd or Spurs.

[HankMarvin]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

You're right - but given he created 46 chances, perhaps some onus is on the finishers.

How many of those chances have been created by corners and set pieces. Last season we had over 220 corners alone.

He took the majority. 
Are the 46 chances from open play?

[sacreblueits442]

18 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

With our lineup today, I'd have Albrighton and / or Fuchs take them, at least on corners as both are excellent crossers of the ball. I think the bigger issue is neither of those are first team players so among the first team it's either TIelemans or Maddison that takes the corners and neither are much good at them. If Under plays, he could also take them, but we are in an odd position where we don't have a good corner taker despite having the strongest squad we've ever had. Maybe Ricardo could take them when he returns to the team?

 

In the meantime someone needs to make him stay back for an hour after training every day practicing his delivery. We are moving to the new training center this week, so no excuses Madders!

..i am sure he said in an interview that he practices on a daily  basis!!!

 The Ricardo shout could be a good one, he does tend to drive the balls in so I think we would have a better percentage of quality chances coming our way.

[HighPeakFox]

40 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

How many of those chances have been created by corners and set pieces. Last season we had over 220 corners alone.

He took the majority. 
Are the 46 chances from open play?

That I don't know. 

[AyewJoking]

Regarding our fecklessness at corners, either Rodgers simply doesnt care or its actually a tactic to let the defence clear it, hoping it lands to one of ours in a favourable position.

 

Or he just accepts we will never be good at corners and if we cant feed Vardy, we probably wont score.

[Guest Fktf]

3 hours ago, urban fox said:

I think that most people are agreed that he needs to improve his corner taking but as we have very little height in the team perhaps it is a case of trying to drive the ball in rather than floating it across which would be meat and drink for most centre halves against us. (that does not mean i advocate us having a lump upfront by the way!) hence not clearing the first man?

As someone, who in their playing days couldn't take a decent corner to save his life, i do not have the answer but it would be nice occasionally to see someone else take a few, just to mix it up a bit and add some variation. We have some excellent dead ball players such as Albrighton, Fuchs and Under which i feel would be better placed sometimes. There was one free kick recently that was perfect for a left footer and i thought Fuchs would have had a pop (and was lining it up) but madders took over and floated it in instead which was easily cleared. Yes he has scored some great free kicks when he is on it but he has to realise that sometimes someone else would be better placed, especially from the left hand side.

We never seem to try a low corner to someone lurking on the edge of the box for example and are too predictable when you rely on the same person taking everything. Just my opinion.

I know we all are supposed to hate short corners, but I really don't see the point of us putting it in the box direct.

[daddylonglegs]

For the record I like Maddison. I think if we had Pereira and Ndidi there would naturally be a lot more room for him to express himself, and I am hoping for a strong second half of the season from him.

 

But Fvck  me, the length of time it takes for him to realise it’s a corner, walk (generous) over to the corner flag and then hit the first man.... rattled me so much!! 
 

rant over 🤣

[fuchsntf]

4 hours ago, Royston. said:

Regarding our fecklessness at corners, either Rodgers simply doesnt care or its actually a tactic to let the defence clear it, hoping it lands to one of ours in a favourable position.

 

Or he just accepts we will never be good at corners and if we cant feed Vardy, we probably wont score.

When our Major players dont commit to the Jump and the intent to compete is lacking, you cant Control that box of air delivery point...

In the past few seasons, Huth Maguire, Maybe Fofana,are the only CBs that have had a quality jump.

I am sure Evans is still Carryhing back problems, he can Harldey get himself into a Position for a committed jump.

Fafana is still Learning his trade and team....We need at least One CB who can continual attack & defend the ball when its crossed...

Everybody seems to be Jumping from a Standing position...Posts Guard should only leave his post when players & Play has gone into

The Next or Even 2nd phase...

Edited 7 December 2020 by fuchsntf

[Dan]

18 hours ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

That's the thing with Maddison though. He might be trying a lot of things and not succeeding but he has the ability to make that one pass/cross/shot and it changes the game. A little like Mahrez but in a different way. He could be awful for 90 minutes but then still have that one bit of magic in his pocket.

 

His set pieces are generally average but every now and then he shows what he can do. Once he gets proper match fit, and I am talking a good string of 90 min games under his belt, I am sure he will improve again. He is one of the few creative players we have.

I actually don't particularly agree that it's that he's trying too much. His problems in particular in the game looked slightly more fundamental to me - there was one instance where Albrighton won the ball in the opposition half, Maddison was given the ball by Albrighton and he just dallied on it, letting the Sheffield United defence retreat and therefore making breaking them down harder. It's instances like that above all that make me question him - rather than trying to be overly ambitious and messing it up. You could accuse Mahrez of that, but Maddison, I don't think I agree.

[Ashley]

How many of these chances we are speaking about are penalties converted by us as well? Does that go into consideration at all? 🤷‍♂️

[Ric Flair]

42 minutes ago, Ashley said:

How many of these chances we are speaking about are penalties converted by us as well? Does that go into consideration at all? 🤷‍♂️

He's won us 2 this season already.

[Bert]

19 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He's won us 2 this season already.

I don’t think he gets any kind of official assist for winning a penalty for us 

[Ric Flair]

29 minutes ago, Bert said:

I don’t think he gets any kind of official assist for winning a penalty for us 

Yeah, they aren't official assists.

[HighPeakFox]

I'm quite prepared to dismiss the stat if it is one of those shown to be a flawed metric as intimated by @ealingfox.  What I would say is that it applies to all players too, but it is a little bit like JV's scoring record this season, boosted heavily by penalties. Of course they count (I'm not seeking to open that debate up again) but he could be bang out of form and still sticking them away.

[filbertway]

I remember when we had Maguire and everyone was going mental over the number of chances he had created and it turned out a large portion of them were corners chipped where Maguire had won the header.

 

This is why I'm a big fan of xG, stats with a bit of context.

 

Kane gets an assist for Son's goal on Sunday, yet someone who runs 50 yards, beating a few players and plays a pass to someone who then passes again to the scorer will get no credit or acknowledgement of it on any stats.

[SexyGammonFox]

16 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Kane gets an assist for Son's goal on Sunday, yet someone who runs 50 yards, beating a few players and plays a pass to someone who then passes again to the scorer will get no credit or acknowledgement of it on any stats.

I'd be in favour of something like the dubious goals committee, but for assists. So often it's the assist to the assist that actually makes the goal. Nobody should be getting an assist for taking a corner in my opinion.    

[urban fox]

12 minutes ago, SexyGammonFox said:

I'd be in favour of something like the dubious goals committee, but for assists. So often it's the assist to the assist that actually makes the goal. Nobody should be getting an assist for taking a corner in my opinion.    

Couldn't agree more. good example would be in CL when Mahrez squared the ball in for a tap in. It was Albrightons 50 yard cross field ball right into Mahrez's feet that actually made the goal, but the latter gets the assist. we have seen similar from Praet and Youri where they have played the killer ball for a wide player to put a simple cross in. Mendy's turn against Man city, beating the press and laying off to barnes created the opening but that won't appear on any stats. It is more often the assist to the assist that actually starts the move and creates the chance in the first place but it seems to me that so many people do not see this and judge players contributions merely on assist/goal stats alone. How many goals are made possible by a run off the ball dragging defenders out of position etc. sometimes you have to look beyond mere stats to see the bigger picture.

[Vazman]

A moment of magic Sunday from JM, and our stalwart JV is enough for me.

 

However I do hope JM's consistency in games improves and of course set pieces / corners, as I would like too see him in the England squad, it is understandable why on current form he is being left out and I'm sure deep down he knows this and will give his all to get noticed.

[sacreblueits442]

18 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

When our Major players dont commit to the Jump and the intent to compete is lacking, you cant Control that box of air delivery point...

In the past few seasons, Huth Maguire, Maybe Fofana,are the only CBs that have had a quality jump.

I am sure Evans is still Carryhing back problems, he can Harldey get himself into a Position for a committed jump.

Fafana is still Learning his trade and team....We need at least One CB who can continual attack & defend the ball when its crossed...

Everybody seems to be Jumping from a Standing position...Posts Guard should only leave his post when players & Play has gone into

The Next or Even 2nd phase...

...I agree to some point, but we defend zonally and therefore we jump  from a standing position!!!

The opponents forwards are moving and attacking the incoming ball and have a massive advantage. We need to combat this by either designating a player to pick up before we step on the pitch or organise, where we do not leave a mismatch and give them an advantage.

  We are poor at both ends of the pitch and this is not something, that you will need to have the time on the training ground, to put right, defensively it is just common sense and in an attacking situation, clear the near post or put one of our player there to flick it on, or at least to occupy one less defender.

[Corky]

5 hours ago, filbertway said:

I remember when we had Maguire and everyone was going mental over the number of chances he had created and it turned out a large portion of them were corners chipped where Maguire had won the header.

 

This is why I'm a big fan of xG, stats with a bit of context.

 

Kane gets an assist for Son's goal on Sunday, yet someone who runs 50 yards, beating a few players and plays a pass to someone who then passes again to the scorer will get no credit or acknowledgement of it on any stats.

Assist stats can be misleading. You can create plenty of excellent chances that the finisher misses. Key chances created is a much better measure.

[Dan]

6 hours ago, filbertway said:

I remember when we had Maguire and everyone was going mental over the number of chances he had created and it turned out a large portion of them were corners chipped where Maguire had won the header.

 

This is why I'm a big fan of xG, stats with a bit of context.

 

Kane gets an assist for Son's goal on Sunday, yet someone who runs 50 yards, beating a few players and plays a pass to someone who then passes again to the scorer will get no credit or acknowledgement of it on any stats.

Yeah I've got to admit I actually quite like xG. It's not flawless but it's a better concept than any other nuanced stat.

[Beliall]

everytime i slate madders he goes and plays a blinder and prooves me wrong. so, he's a useless ****ing ****

[foxinsocks]

We got to the top without him...

[Tom12345]

13 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I actually don't particularly agree that it's that he's trying too much. His problems in particular in the game looked slightly more fundamental to me - there was one instance where Albrighton won the ball in the opposition half, Maddison was given the ball by Albrighton and he just dallied on it, letting the Sheffield United defence retreat and therefore making breaking them down harder. It's instances like that above all that make me question him - rather than trying to be overly ambitious and messing it up. You could accuse Mahrez of that, but Maddison, I don't think I agree.

Agree.

[Father Ted]

Sadly Maddison will never be a top player, despite what he thinks in his own head. He doesn't have the ability to beat a man nor create space to create worry in a defence that sit deep against us. His set pieces are embarrassing and if I was him I would have given them up long ago. We will be laughing to the bank again when he's the next overrated Englishman to leave this club for big money.