Boubakary Soumare

[Jobyfox]

20 minutes ago, fairbanksh said:

Generally I am pro Rodgers but in no way is his judgement infallible 

He's not as good as he thinks he is 

Spot on. I think BR’s biggest problem is that he’s not the genius he thinks he is. 
 

But this is a Soumare thread. Do you think his judgement is wrong here? 

[cropstonfox]

Get him gone .cut the losses. The move on

 

[ronnup]

Imagine what would've happened if we'd sold every player that didn't look good in their first season 

 

 

[ScrumpyJack]

7 hours ago, Sly said:

From what I was advised, he’s well thought of and just needed time to adjust. We won’t sell to Monaco at a loss, if at all.

Fabrizio, it’s a pleasure.

[The People's Hero]

7 hours ago, Sly said:

From what I was advised, he’s well thought of and just needed time to adjust. We won’t sell to Monaco at a loss, if at all. 
 

Vestergaard, Choudhury, Mendy and potentially Praet are more likely the players to exit. 

Well you've got much different sources to me then!
 

I don't doubt he's liked, and I also don't necessarily think its the best option to sell him, but I do accept I don't see him in training every day....

 

But what I will say is that if a club matches what we have set as our 'cut losses' point; he's gone.

 

If that doesn't happen, he will naturally get his chance.

[Dahnsouff]

7 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Well you've got much different sources to me then!
 

I don't doubt he's liked, and I also don't necessarily think its the best option to sell him, but I do accept I don't see him in training every day....

 

But what I will say is that if a club matches what we have set as our 'cut losses' point; he's gone.

 

If that doesn't happen, he will naturally get his chance.

And this is a test that applies for most regarded as deadwood I am sure, and so it should.

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

I think people are getting confused here. One performance doesn't mean the corner has been turned. The lad can play and is technically good. We all saw glimpses last season, particularly that one European game. But if the fundamental issue is he'd rather not be here. And an unhappy Bouba is a poor Bouba on the park. Then he has no future here. 

 

 

[Ian Nacho]

The fact that he played last night tells me there’s still some work to get this deal through. If it was a lot closer to being finalised we wouldn’t want to risk getting him injured. 

[Reginaldo]

58 minutes ago, Ian Nacho said:

The fact that he played last night tells me there’s still some work to get this deal through. If it was a lot closer to being finalised we wouldn’t want to risk getting him injured. 

Maguire played right up to him leaving iirc

[TJQuik]

On 20/07/2022 at 13:26, murphy said:

We're talking specifically about homesickness here as opposed to any kind of diagnosable or recognisable mental health condition such as depression which is a different thing altogether and sonething I would not seek to trivialise.  

 

I sometimes think that the pendulum has swung too far from the outdated stiff upper lip thinking of the past into some kind of nebulous woolly modern thinking which actually teaches a lack of resilience and therefore becomes counter-productive. One for the unpopular opinions thread, no doubt.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62256244

[murphy]

7 hours ago, TJQuik said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62256244

Not going to get into this again, except to say that addiction, anxiety and depression is not the same thing as homesickness ffs!

 

I will leave it at this:  Could Soimare look any one of us as supporters in the eye and say that he has given of his best since he has been here?  It is my feeling that he could not, on the evidence of his sauntering half-arsed performances, which is why I am so down on him and reluctant to accept excuses,

 

You might well disagree. 

 

 

Edited 22 July 2022 by murphy

[kristianity77]

Did anyone else think he was a bit of a idiot when he had that shot against Hull and Vardy went over to give him a high 5 for his effort and Soumare just blanked him.  Camera then cut again to Vardy who looked more than a bit pissed off.

[Lako42]

4 minutes ago, kristianity77 said:

Did anyone else think he was a bit of a idiot when he had that shot against Hull and Vardy went over to give him a high 5 for his effort and Soumare just blanked him.  Camera then cut again to Vardy who looked more than a bit pissed off.

Was Vardy being sarcastic? 

[FosseSpark]

With regards 'settling in' and homesickness. The fella has three French teammates of similar age, an ethnically diverse dressing room, a million pounds in the bank and a plush pad and place of work to go to every day. If he can't feel comfortable plying his trade in that environment then he isn't made of the right stuff to be an elite sportsman. 

Mirandinha being dropped from the streets of Sau Paulo into early 90s Newcastle is hard adjustment territory, not this.

[Alex_LCFC]

6 minutes ago, kristianity77 said:

Did anyone else think he was a bit of a idiot when he had that shot against Hull and Vardy went over to give him a high 5 for his effort and Soumare just blanked him.  Camera then cut again to Vardy who looked more than a bit pissed off.

I saw that and thought in his mind it was a what could I of done more to get that in and vardy was giving him praise telling him to lift his head up. Confidence player

[FoxinNotts]

He's off. lots of strange body language going on. Hugs as though to say 'goodbye', over the top attention. I think we'll get another offer in from Monaco, accept this, then Hamza will go, then hopefully we'll see an incoming,

[Nalis]

Just now, FosseSpark said:

With regards 'settling in' and homesickness. The fella has three French teammates of similar age, an ethnically diverse dressing room, a million pounds in the bank and a plush pad and place of work to go to every day. If he can't feel comfortable plying his trade in that environment then he isn't made of the right stuff to be an elite sportsman. 

Mirandinha being dropped from the streets of Sau Paulo into early 90s Newcastle is hard adjustment territory, not this.

Guess settling varies for every individual.

 

Apparently Aguero never really settled in Manchester in terms of his personal life but was still Man City's all time top scorer

 

Whereas someone like Bruno G for Newcastle has settled into the local area really quickly.

[Finnegan]

Just now, murphy said:

Not going to get into this again, except to say that addiction, anxiety and depression is not the same thing as homesickness ffs!

 

I will leave it at this:  Could Soimare look any one of us as supporters in the eye and say that he has given of his best since he has been here.  It is my feeling that he could not, on the evidence of his sauntering half-arsed performances, which is why I am so down on him and reluctant to accept excuses,

 

You might well disagree. 

 

Really think at this point you need to stop digging and pick a better hill to die on. One you know a little bit more about. 

 

How many people have got to tell you you're being really narrow minded before the penny drops that maybe you're a little bit out of touch on mental health? 

 

"Homesickness" is quite obviously being used in the case of Soumaré as a catch term for whatever may or may not be troubling him. Its not a definitive condition with a specific set of symptoms you can wave off and tell him to grow up and cope with. It's a generalisation being used to give a reason for why he may or may not be struggling. 

 

What's actually happening none of us know, both the club and the player have dealt with it incredibly privately. He could have a Gradel/Knockaert situation where there's considerable family distress back home or he may be struggling in the same way Jesus Navas used to in having absolutely chronic anxiety when leaving his home town. Or maybe he's having a personal crisis in the same way Vardy did in his well documented reaction to stepping up to a new level and pleading with Pearson to let him go back to non league. 

 

You, nor I, have any idea what's going on with Soumaré but the fundamental difference between you and seemingly everyone else in this thread calling you out is that you don't seem to be able to get your head around the fact that mental health isn't a binary ticklist of disorders you either do or do not have, ranked by severity. 

 

Any form of stress / distress, whether it be trouble at home, trouble at work, moving to a new place, struggling for confidence, feeling out of your depth - any of these things can trigger depression, can trigger anxiety, can have a massive impact on your ability to perform just simple day to day functions. 

 

You may be right, more by luck than any kind of judgement, and maybe Soumaré actually does just lack the determination and the discipline to succeed outside his comfort zone. But there's no evidence of that because none of us are behind the scenes. The only thing there is irrefutable evidence for is that you massively lack empathy and almost seem to be striving to avoid having compassion. 

[TommyK]

8 minutes ago, Alex_LCFC said:

I saw that and thought in his mind it was a what could I of done more to get that in and vardy was giving him praise telling him to lift his head up. Confidence player

After Barnes goal as well...very few smiles. 

[Grebfromgrebland]

Our record of settling in young players from abroad is pretty poor when you think about the money, time and effort spent on getting them in.

[ARM1968]

Sometimes people just don’t adjust, for whatever reason - and there are many. Sometimes it’s even more complex than that with numerous issues coming together in a perfect storm. 
 

I’ve always rated the lad and thought a loan might be better than selling him. However, for his sake, it might well be better for him to go back to France permanently. That is not to say he would not have issues back in France, but they may well be lessened and more tolerable for him to cope with. 
 

Whatever, I wish the guy good luck. 

[FoxesCJ30]

9 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Our record of settling in young players from abroad is pretty poor when you think about the money, time and effort spent on getting them in.

Hmm I dunno about this one, as Fofana and Ndidi settled instantly from their respective leagues as well as Soyuncu and Mahrez eventually. But I agree there are a few that something hasn't gone completely right.

[taupe]

2 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Sometimes people just don’t adjust, for whatever reason - and there are many. Sometimes it’s even more complex than that with numerous issues coming together in a perfect storm. 

I admire your take. And that of @Finnegan above. I share it.

 

And I'd like to reiterate a point made - we don't know. Not even those of (and I do include myself) that are more 'touchy feely' - more inclined to empathy than judgement.

 

We simply do not know what the situation is. I've no idea what Soumare's personal issues were last year - neither do I expect, indeed want, to know. It is possible that he's back and feeling fine, finding his feet again after a rocky start.  The club will obviously have a better handle on the issues.

 

There is of course another context we ought keep in mind though; one that has little to do with where Bouba's head's at and more to do with the position the club is in, both financially and in terms of squad. Selling Soumare would be motivated by a number of factors - and we know little of any of them. I'm all for fan speculation on a fan's forum, but we have to remember we know jack shit. 

[VLC86]

Delighted to read we are talking about him smiling/not smiling again. What a place

[murphy]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Really think at this point you need to stop digging and pick a better hill to die on. One you know a little bit more about. 

 

How many people have got to tell you you're being really narrow minded before the penny drops that maybe you're a little bit out of touch on mental health? 

 

"Homesickness" is quite obviously being used in the case of Soumaré as a catch term for whatever may or may not be troubling him. Its not a definitive condition with a specific set of symptoms you can wave off and tell him to grow up and cope with. It's a generalisation being used to give a reason for why he may or may not be struggling. 

 

What's actually happening none of us know, both the club and the player have dealt with it incredibly privately. He could have a Gradel/Knockaert situation where there's considerable family distress back home or he may be struggling in the same way Jesus Navas used to in having absolutely chronic anxiety when leaving his home town. Or maybe he's having a personal crisis in the same way Vardy did in his well documented reaction to stepping up to a new level and pleading with Pearson to let him go back to non league. 

 

You, nor I, have any idea what's going on with Soumaré but the fundamental difference between you and seemingly everyone else in this thread calling you out is that you don't seem to be able to get your head around the fact that mental health isn't a binary ticklist of disorders you either do or do not have, ranked by severity. 

 

Any form of stress / distress, whether it be trouble at home, trouble at work, moving to a new place, struggling for confidence, feeling out of your depth - any of these things can trigger depression, can trigger anxiety, can have a massive impact on your ability to perform just simple day to day functions. 

 

You may be right, more by luck than any kind of judgement, and maybe Soumaré actually does just lack the determination and the discipline to succeed outside his comfort zone. But there's no evidence of that because none of us are behind the scenes. The only thing there is irrefutable evidence for is that you massively lack empathy and almost seem to be striving to avoid having compassion. 

I can agree with some of that.  Not all, as I have never said that homesickness is definitely the problem.  It could be a range of deeper issues which would be a different matter but if we rewind back to the beginning, I need to emphasise this was speculation on the very narrow premis that Soumare wasn't performing due to homesickness.. Not a wider gamut of mental health problems or resultant problems.  I agree that it was a foolish quagmire to wade through.

 

As for the empathy, compassion thing.  Well yes, you're right.  I also have a tendency to see in black and white.   Ironically, I'm going to blame it on the aspergers. 

 

 

 

Edited 22 July 2022 by murphy