Enzo needs to be careful - the dangerous spiral

[Sunbury Fox]

I can't help feeling that the rot set in against Sunderland, even though we scraped a win. They had a proper go at us and it clearly rattled us that a team was willing to press us so intensely high up the pitch. All of a sudden we lost our composure and confidence, as well as control of the game, and we became increasingly ragged, knocking the ball long far more often than in previous games. We've never been the same since in my view. Perhaps this is because other teams have started to follow Sunderland's lead, rather than trying to hang on for a point in a low block against us. But I also fear that Enzo has maybe become more cautious in his approach since that game. He's been more focused on control of games, it seems, leading to lots of sterile possession and a lack of creativity and goalscoring opportunities. I just hope it's not the equivalent of that Norwich game in Rodgers' first full season when they came to the KP and did a real job on us, even though they didn't win. We were never as fluent again after that. 

[adejo92]

Just got a multi pack of Red Bull to get me through tomorrow's match.

[gurru991]

Just now, adejo92 said:

Just got a multi pack of Red Bull to get me through tomorrow's match.

You & Jamie !!

[Fox92]

1 hour ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

It’s incredible as Leicester fans that some of us use this argument, given we achieved the impossible using minimal possession.

 

‘The games changed though’ 🤥

Agreed and what annoys me more is any criticism gets hit back with “football has changed” “be patient” etc

[The Year Of The Fox]

4 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Agreed and what annoys me more is any criticism gets hit back with “football has changed” “be patient” etc

Football hasn’t changed

 

These type of people know pretty much nothing about football. Thats why they just recite stuff Gary Neville says such as the above.

 

Brian Clough said that football is a simple game made complicated by idiots. The idiots are these people. ‘Number 6 role’ ‘double pivot’ ‘triple parallelogram’

 

Bore off 

[The Year Of The Fox]

30 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

Just got a multi pack of Red Bull to get me through tomorrow's match.

3 for £100?

[Chrysalis]

Well according to a post in the other thread, apparently we didnt play slow enough from Enzo.

 

So it looks like he might be going all in on this strategy and we have to hope he can pull through it.  But of course he could be telling the press BS, and doing something else behind closed doors.

Edited 2 December 2023 by Chrysalis

[Collymore]

You know that sound of when the air starts to get pulled down the plug hole just before all the water is gone?

 

Yeah - that! 

[FrankieADZ]

2 minutes ago, Collymore said:

You know that sound of when the air starts to get pulled down the plug hole just before all the water is gone?

 

Yeah - that! 

fair play, right on Enzo not adapting; really is telling after the last couple of games tbf

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

Whiffs of Brendan’s stubbornness and staleness, though as has been pointed out even he changed things around a bit. Where does he go from here? Hopefully the players expressed their views after the game last night, but I don’t hold out much hope collectively they’re clearly a bunch of wet lettuces.

 

The very least he can do is give the opposition something else to think about. The team selection, tactics and everything has just become so predictable.

[Collymore]

9 minutes ago, FrankieADZ said:

fair play, right on Enzo not adapting; really is telling after the last couple of games tbf

The warning signs have been there for a while. It's weird how many of us could forsee this but Enzo couldn't. He's the most blinded stubborn man I've ever seen. Inexperienced, yes  compared to Roy Hodgson- but he's been in football as a player and coach for a long time still so you expect at least some common sense.

 

Even the average bloke could see he needed to be adaptable - so why couldn't he? 

 

He even talked about being adaptable at the start of the season.

 

It's madness. 

 

Edited 13 April by Collymore

[john ridley]

So back in November  some people  were seeing through  him only to be shouted down ,been here before haven't  we and that didn't end well either .Sometimes fans just get a feeling somethings not right ..

[FrankieADZ]

Just now, Collymore said:

The warning signs have been there for a while. It's weird how many of us could forsee this but Enzo couldn't. He's the most blinded stubborn man I've ever seen. Inexperienced, yes  compared to Roy Hodgson- but he's been in football as a player and coach for a long time so you expect at least some common sense. Even the average bloke could see he needed to be adaptable - so why couldn't he? 

 

He even talked about being adaptable at the start of the season.

 

It's madness. 

 

looking back it has been; do they see the game from a different angle with their tablet next to the pitch?

cos if they dont we have a problem, cos you can see alot more from higher up compared to pitch level, 

as you said,he talked about it but he hasnt, formation, tactics they havent adapted at all throughout the season, all due respect to Enzo he wont get anywhere in management unless he has the ability to change and adapt his tactics/formations; 

thats what the best managers do, one rigid formation/set of tactics aint going to work every single time

Klopp,SAF, Wenger, Pep, Alonso(yeah only 1 season but what hes doing is incredible)

they all adapt, make changes early on if needs be to change things up

 

its what Enzo isnt doing, for me atm it seems like hes trying to brute force things

[splinterdream]

10 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

Whiffs of Brendan’s stubbornness and staleness, though as has been pointed out even he changed things around a bit. Where does he go from here? Hopefully the players expressed their views after the game last night, but I don’t hold out much hope collectively they’re clearly a bunch of wet lettuces.

 

The very least he can do is give the opposition something else to think about. The team selection, tactics and everything has just become so predictable.

What are the players going to say? Although i havent read all the posts, I've not seen anyone say specifically what they would do different. Our problem seems to be the players he trusts arent as good as they think they are. Our wingers are 1 footed, we're playing with a DCM in an attacking 8 position who again looks like hes going through the motions, our striker doesnt look like hed steuggle in the junior side.

[Collymore]

24 minutes ago, splinterdream said:

What are the players going to say? Although i havent read all the posts, I've not seen anyone say specifically what they would do different. Our problem seems to be the players he trusts arent as good as they think they are. Our wingers are 1 footed, we're playing with a DCM in an attacking 8 position who again looks like hes going through the motions, our striker doesnt look like hed steuggle in the junior side.

Teams are picking us off with the quick transition as we have no defensive shape with this inverted full back. How about having a fairly orthodox shape we can fall in to where the players will all know what to do.

 

How about getting fullbacks overlapping? 

 

How about not playing 'la pause" for a change and give the opposition no chance to reset. The amount of times recently we gain back possession unexpectedly and then wait for every player get back into shape is ridiculous.

 

How about loading the box for a long throw every now and then. 

 

How about starting with experience - Coady and Albrighton.

 

How about trying two strikers together? 

 

 

[splinterdream]

32 minutes ago, Collymore said:

Teams are picking us off with the quick transition as we have no defensive shape with this inverted full back. How about having a fairly orthodox shape we can fall in to where the players will all know what to do.

 

How about getting fullbacks overlapping? 

 

How about not playing 'la pause" for a change and give the opposition no chance to reset. The amount of times recently we gain back possession unexpectedly and then wait for every player get back into shape is ridiculous.

 

How about loading the box for a long throw every now and then. 

 

How about starting with experience - Coady and Albrighton.

 

How about trying two strikers together? 

 

 

Absolutely agree, we absolutely have the squad to do that, it does seem like we tie one hand behind our backs and dont use our full advantage, enzos philosophy is puzzling. We had the same with Puel, who for me was totally under rated by our fans, but i can see why when his insistance on playing 2 holding midfielders against lower league sides led to his downfall, but to be fair to him, he was close to a formula when we signed youri. 

Someone needs to tell him hes never going to turn those players into Man City players

[Hammo]

2 hours ago, Collymore said:

Teams are picking us off with the quick transition as we have no defensive shape with this inverted full back. How about having a fairly orthodox shape we can fall in to where the players will all know what to do.

 

How about getting fullbacks overlapping? 

 

How about not playing 'la pause" for a change and give the opposition no chance to reset. The amount of times recently we gain back possession unexpectedly and then wait for every player get back into shape is ridiculous.

 

How about loading the box for a long throw every now and then. 

 

How about starting with experience - Coady and Albrighton.

 

How about trying two strikers together? 

 

 

Music to my ears

[Fox1norfolk]

1 hour ago, splinterdream said:

Absolutely agree, we absolutely have the squad to do that, it does seem like we tie one hand behind our backs and dont use our full advantage, enzos philosophy is puzzling. We had the same with Puel, who for me was totally under rated by our fans, but i can see why when his insistance on playing 2 holding midfielders against lower league sides led to his downfall, but to be fair to him, he was close to a formula when we signed youri. 

Someone needs to tell him hes never going to turn those players into Man City players

His new formula procession, neat passing moves leaving other team chasing shadows was fine until teams sussed us out. In those good  time the players had a smile on their faces, Winks stated the most enjoyable football of his career. The players body language has dramatically changed and very noticeable last night, angry expressions to each other. The formula is not working anymore teams just sit back and lets us pass and pass until we make mistake then just one good shot is all that’s needed like the last 3 games. I don’t think our manager has a clue how to correct the problem he has created and it’s pretty obvious the players are not enjoying playing this system anymore.

[Lesterlad]

3 hours ago, Collymore said:

Teams are picking us off with the quick transition as we have no defensive shape with this inverted full back. How about having a fairly orthodox shape we can fall in to where the players will all know what to do.

 

How about getting fullbacks overlapping? 

 

How about not playing 'la pause" for a change and give the opposition no chance to reset. The amount of times recently we gain back possession unexpectedly and then wait for every player get back into shape is ridiculous.

 

How about loading the box for a long throw every now and then. 

 

How about starting with experience - Coady and Albrighton.

 

How about trying two strikers together? 

 

 

Great post but he won’t do it even though what you said makes sense

[maynefox]

4 hours ago, Collymore said:

You know that sound of when the air starts to get pulled down the plug hole just before all the water is gone?

 

Yeah - that! 

I found my first game watching Leicester (Cardiff at home) was dull and boring and Cardiff were actually the better team. I was bored during that match but felt I couldn't say anything in fear of being shot down.

 

I was never truly won over by his style of play and as your initial post mentioned, there were glaring warning signs of tactical inflexibility. Fair play for having the guts to write this early on (and for taking the pelters that came with it!).

[sm1]

On paper we've played 42 games, in reality we've played one game 42 times. The same tactics game after game without acknowledging the opponent. It worked initially and now he's become too egotistical to change, hence his bragadocious claim about walking away if we didn't like his style of football. It's all come to bite him in the backside. A lesson for him that too much ego and self importance isn't a good trait to have. Admit that you've been found out and become more flexible. Wishful thinking I know.

[Tuna]

@Collymore was bang on

[OzFox]

On 02/12/2023 at 08:33, Sunbury Fox said:

I can't help feeling that the rot set in against Sunderland, even though we scraped a win. They had a proper go at us and it clearly rattled us that a team was willing to press us so intensely high up the pitch. All of a sudden we lost our composure and confidence, as well as control of the game, and we became increasingly ragged, knocking the ball long far more often than in previous games. We've never been the same since in my view. Perhaps this is because other teams have started to follow Sunderland's lead, rather than trying to hang on for a point in a low block against us. But I also fear that Enzo has maybe become more cautious in his approach since that game. He's been more focused on control of games, it seems, leading to lots of sterile possession and a lack of creativity and goalscoring opportunities. I just hope it's not the equivalent of that Norwich game in Rodgers' first full season when they came to the KP and did a real job on us, even though they didn't win. We were never as fluent again after that. 

I think you're right with the Norwich parallel, we were never quite the same after that.

 

It would have been our 14th win in a row, in the Premier league & EFL Cup. Hard to imagine now.

 

 

[foxile5]

It's the process. Don't worry about it. It's a process.

[sylofox]

The only way anything changes is when Top makes a move.

 

TBH If he brings in another Bodgers/Enzo type manager I'm done with the club until he sells up.

 

Last night and Tuesday night was like watching us in 15/16 in reverse.

 

It's not how long you have the ball It's what you FVCKING do with it.

 

Enzo your a cvnt Top stop living off of what your farther did. Grow a pair and run this club like he did.

 

It's a business for you so start fvcking running it like one. They ain't your friends they are employees. Rudin will lick arse all day while your paying him.