MC Prussian Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 Marc Bartra cost Dortmund £6.2m! And Keane's supposed to be worth twice than that?
Gerard Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 Marc Bartra cost Dortmund £6.2m! And Keane's supposed to be worth twice than that? Exactly, a 25 year old Spanish international with 10 caps. I imagine that fee was so low because Barcelona put a relatively low buy back clause but for the money we're spending I want us to be signing a possible future world class centre half, does Keane fit that category?
MPH Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 Marc Bartra cost Dortmund £6.2m! And Keane's supposed to be worth twice than that? Young British 'talent' will always go for a premium especially when you need a certain amount to fit your prem 25 squad and champions league squad- even more money is wanted with the new tv deal aswell
Tielemans63 Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 ahh!! , the cusp of this, is the fact that his new boss would be Ranieri. There is another point, Leicester fans have a record of being total rubbish, when judging Players including their own, and just to rub it in ..Kane. After the last 3 seasons of foxforum player analyse, it might be best if quite a few, held back their "Expert" opinions. A bit of humble piece would be well served and taken right now. I've always said that if Walsh likes a player then that's good enough for me, he knows a hell of a lot more than I do obviously, however this is a forum and I'm entitled to my opinion and it's just that in my opinion, Keane isn't that great. If you read any of my posts you'll see that I almost always defend the club's signings I just happen to have reservations about this particular one. I don't recall ever claiming to be an expert and also not sure why I'd eat humble pie when we haven't even signed the guy yet let alone seen him play for us.
goose2010 Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 But is he better than them? It's obvious we need to get in a centre half who is in his mid 20's or there or thereabouts but for the fee involved I want everything. Someone who has youth on his side and an automatic first team player, we were linked with Bailly before he went Man Utd and Murillo from Inter Milan. Two players who are 22 and 24 respectively and are expected to become the next generation of world class centre halves, is Keane in that category? You want to bring in a player that is instantly going to replace Huth or Morgan? So a player that will automatically up root a player from a premier league winning defence? there is no body in the world that would do that. Man United are a bigger club than us and who would you go to if you were on the outside looking into the prem? Just because we won the league doesn't mean we are automatically a bigger team than Man United, Inter Milan we are just Leicester City. Players that sign for us must have the mind set that they are going to have to work hard because every team is going to want to beat us next season and it will be probably our toughest season to date. Keane could come into that category we don't no like we don't know if Bailly or Murillo will automatically become world class just because they are at big clubs we might gamble on Keane and like we did with Kante, Vardy, Mahrez and Albrighton and if the fee is around the figure being quoted and we think that is good business who are we to argue with it.
Gerard Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 You want to bring in a player that is instantly going to replace Huth or Morgan? So a player that will automatically up root a player from a premier league winning defence? there is no body in the world that would do that. Man United are a bigger club than us and who would you go to if you were on the outside looking into the prem? Just because we won the league doesn't mean we are automatically a bigger team than Man United, Inter Milan we are just Leicester City. Players that sign for us must have the mind set that they are going to have to work hard because every team is going to want to beat us next season and it will be probably our toughest season to date. Keane could come into that category we don't no like we don't know if Bailly or Murillo will automatically become world class just because they are at big clubs we might gamble on Keane and like we did with Kante, Vardy, Mahrez and Albrighton and if the fee is around the figure being quoted and we think that is good business who are we to argue with it. I haven't remotely suggested we are a bigger club than Man Utd so I'm not sure why you felt you needed to point that out? And yes I expect any signing we make for around the £20m mark to force their way into the first XI sooner rather than later.
goose2010 Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 I haven't remotely suggested we are a bigger club than Man Utd so I'm not sure why you felt you needed to point that out? And yes I expect any signing we make for around the £20m mark to force their way into the first XI sooner rather than later. Because they are a bigger club and if you were a player who would you choose? to try a sign a player that is classed as 'next generation of world class centre halves' is basically impossible if the likes of the Man United, Man City, Chelsea or Arsenal are sniffing around as they wouldn't choose Leicester. So yeah try and force there way in is fine but to be 'an automatic first team player' like you said no one deserves to do that to a team that we have.
Gerard Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 Because they are a bigger club and if you were a player who would you choose? to try a sign a player that is classed as 'next generation of world class centre halves' is basically impossible if the likes of the Man United, Man City, Chelsea or Arsenal are sniffing around as they wouldn't choose Leicester. So yeah try and force there way in is fine but to be 'an automatic first team player' like you said no one deserves to do that to a team that we have. I'm not sure why you feel you need to point out that Man Utd are a bigger club and a player is far more likely to choose them over us. What's your next revelation, that water is wet? My point is we've been linked with the likes of Bailly and Murillo who are young centre halves who have a chance of becoming world class. Do we believe Keane is in this category because if we're going to spend the best part of £20m on him I want more than a player who isn't going to get in our first team sooner rather than later.
lgfualol Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 Our potentially most expensive signing will be a back-up CB from Burnley
Gerard Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 Time to bin this one! Rip off! Maybe go back next season when he has one year left on his deal? A dangerous game by Burnley to keep an unhappy player with two years left on his contract.
TJB-fox Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 How can people say don't worry about the money it's not yours, or just pay whatever etc? At the end of the day a player signing is judged on how good value he is. For example if we signed Troy deeney on a free it would most likely be a fantastic signing, but if we paid £30m it would be less of a good signing because you don't get as much for your money. Similarly with Keane, although I think he is a good player I'm not sure £18+m would be good value so therefore not a particularly good signing. At that price (yes I know football is becoming more and more inflated) it's a no from me.
RoyFox Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 Use this cash for Dragovic? In Walsh we trust but I can't get over £18mill, £12mill I can handle
themightyfin Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 Who is to say he won't take Huth or Morgams place? We don't know what the management is thinking
Guest Col city fan Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 I think we can take this further. The debate has pretty much moved on from 'value for money'. A good example would be Sterling to Man City for what was it? 42 mill? The fact that, so far, he's pretty much flopped (started well but God knows what's going on with him) would make you think 'Christ..42 million! What a waste of money'. But to Man City, it literally doesn't matter! They will go out and sign the next one for big money, then the next one for big money and the next one....ad infinitum. I'm not saying this is right...I'm saying this is how it is. I'm sure I heard that Crystal Palace are after Benteke, to be their new target man..and the fee is touted around 30 mill! 30 mill for a player who has been an abject failure at Liverpool! And the list, pretty much goes on. If you really think about, if City feel that Keane could become their next top centre back (with his age very much on his side), there is an argument that 18-20 million IN THE CURRENT CLIMATE actually isn't bad business. If he goes on to become an ever present and possibly an international, given some of the figures being thrown about at present for other players, the fee Burnley are asking for probably sounds about right. It's easy to quickly shout out 'such and such ain't value for money'! But what IS value these days? It's a seller's market, the Premiership has become OBSCENE with the amount of money that's in it (actually sickening) so the concept of value moves on a notch or two. As I said earlier, it's become fantasy football. Literally it has.
Raw Dykes Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 How can people say don't worry about the money it's not yours, or just pay whatever etc? At the end of the day a player signing is judged on how good value he is. For example if we signed Troy deeney on a free it would most likely be a fantastic signing, but if we paid £30m it would be less of a good signing because you don't get as much for your money. Similarly with Keane, although I think he is a good player I'm not sure £18+m would be good value so therefore not a particularly good signing. At that price (yes I know football is becoming more and more inflated) it's a no from me. Couldn't agree more. It annoys me when people argue that a player's price is not important. As you say, I think we should prefer signings that are value for money, because that makes it a better signing. I don't want the club to pay over the odds, for a few reasons. One is that I don't want the club to be ripped off - it makes us look like mugs. Another is that paying too much for one player will probably lead to it happening again, due to other clubs seeing us as the sort of club who have more money than sense. We should want the club to be as financially healthy as possible, surely? As for this particular potential signing - it is a huge price, but then he is English, so I can see why it is inflated. Home grown players are going to be at a premium for the time being. The national side just gave a great demonstration as to why.
Guest Col city fan Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 Couldn't agree more. It annoys me when people argue that a player's price is not important. As you say, I think we should prefer signings that are value for money, because that makes it a better signing. I don't want the club to pay over the odds, for a few reasons. One is that I don't want the club to be ripped off - it makes us look like mugs. Another is that paying too much for one player will probably lead to it happening again, due to other clubs seeing us as the sort of club who have more money than sense. We should want the club to be as financially healthy as possible, surely? As for this particular potential signing - it is a huge price, but then he is English, so I can see why it is inflated. Home grown players are going to be at a premium for the time being. The national side just gave a great demonstration as to why. Again..,what is 'paying over the odds'? What does that mean? What are 'the odds'. One last time, it's a sellers market. Burnley don't have to sell, we want to buy. In exactly the same way WE would do, they are inflating the players price to somewhere near a figure that both parties will agree to trade at. Ie. It's the market. I'm not saying it's 'right'. I used the term 'obscene' and 'fantasy' in a previous post. But what are we meant to do? Not sign a player we want because we are looking for some notion of 'value' when pretty much every other club will be forced to pay over the odds if they want to 'strengthen' One thing is important, for me. I trust the owners. They have done everything so far absolutely correctly and properly. They have been amazing. If the club therefore now feels that spending 20 million quid on Michael Keane is the right thing to do, if it makes sense, they will know this. They won't be assuming it, they will have done their calculations. It's not yours, mine or anyone else's money. It's THEIR money. And I trust them to spend it wisely so as not to ruin the club.
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 Again..,what is 'paying over the odds'? What does that mean? What are 'the odds'. One last time, it's a sellers market. Burnley don't have to sell, we want to buy. In exactly the same way WE would do, they are inflating the players price to somewhere near a figure that both parties will agree to trade at. Ie. It's the market. I'm not saying it's 'right'. I used the term 'obscene' and 'fantasy' in a previous post. But what are we meant to do? Not sign a player we want because we are looking for some notion of 'value' when pretty much every other club will be forced to pay over the odds if they want to 'strengthen' One thing is important, for me. I trust the owners. They have done everything so far absolutely correctly and properly. They have been amazing. If the club therefore now feels that spending 20 million quid on Michael Keane is the right thing to do, if it makes sense, they will know this. They won't be assuming it, they will have done their calculations. It's not yours, mine or anyone else's money. It's THEIR money. And I trust them to spend it wisely so as not to ruin the club. I agree Col re the money etcMust admit I'm a bit underwhelmed that said Like you say though it's up to the manager scouts and owners and if they are all happy we should be too
Vicki Vixen Posted 6 July 2016 Posted 6 July 2016 If we want better English talent, why not invest £18m in our academy?
indierich06 Posted 7 July 2016 Posted 7 July 2016 If we want better English talent, why not invest £18m in our academy? Our owners have spent a fortune getting the academy up to Cat 1 status, so it's not like they're not making any effort to invest in youth. But that investment is much more long term and takes time to come to fruition - in the meantime, we need players.
Babylon Posted 7 July 2016 Posted 7 July 2016 Again..,what is 'paying over the odds'? What does that mean? What are 'the odds'. Paying over market value, you only have to look around to see what other people are going for to get an idea of that. But what are we meant to do? Not sign a player we want because we are looking for some notion of 'value' when pretty much every other club will be forced to pay over the odds if they want to 'strengthen' That's exactly what we're meant to do. If someone is asking way more than market value, you walk away. There is paying a bit over someones market value, and then there is paying £18m for a defender who has yet to show himself capable of top level football, who was signed for a couple of million a year or so ago. Getting value for players isn't an imaginary thing, Pearson preached it all the time. That's why he said they actively scouted people coming to the end of their contracts, or with one year left. Because you got better value. Just because we are suddenly flush with cash shouldn't mean trying to get the best value you can is abandoned, that's very dangerous. One thing is important, for me. I trust the owners. They have done everything so far absolutely correctly and properly. They have been amazing. If the club therefore now feels that spending 20 million quid on Michael Keane is the right thing to do, if it makes sense, they will know this. They won't be assuming it, they will have done their calculations. It's not yours, mine or anyone else's money. It's THEIR money. And I trust them to spend it wisely so as not to ruin the club. I do trust them... but there is one serious concern I have and that's the loss of Pearson in the transfer process. Prior to him and Walsh coming back the owners had total disregard for getting value for money and we spent huge amounts on average players. Now, you can argue that the bigger issue was signing bad players. But someone at the club rubber stamped the signings and the silly wages, there was nobody that said NO. Now, we still have Walsh and I believe we are likely to get more good players than bad. But Pearson used to act as the buffer on many deals, he said himself that he'd pull a transfer if he felt they were asking to much, he's the one who preached getting value for money. I like that way of thinking, you can still do the same if you have money, you just do it on a different level. Now perhaps that's what they think they are doing... but there is also the chance that we've lost the man who preached value and we're left with Walsh picking players, with Rudkin just bidding whatever it takes to get them, with little regards for cost. £18m for Keane and £25m for Deeney has me worried.
foxes21 Posted 7 July 2016 Posted 7 July 2016 @@Babylon you are turning into Thracian with these long posts
Babylon Posted 7 July 2016 Posted 7 July 2016 @@Babylon you are turning into Thracian with these long posts Sorry Chief.... slow at work so I've got too much time on my hands.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.