Is Shakespeare the right man for the job?

[ClaphamFox]

38 minutes ago, foxinsocks said:

He is the right guy.... for now.  We have four big problems.  The ageing profile for the first team starters.  The lack of success at alternative modes of play.  A lack of creativity. A cautious streak (though this may keep us in the prem).  

 

The first two can be addressed by bringing in younger players who can offer alternative mode of play.  here I worry - Iborra and the return for james will stiffen up our mf competitiveness and offfer options...  but I am not sure they offer a different pattern of play.  Shakes and appleton need to think hard about this. I hope Tom Lawrence will make an impact in some games... iheancho wouldhelp - but is he enough?

 

The lack of creativity thing undermines even our "lcfc counter attacking mode of play".  To address this shakes needs to get personal mentors to work with the individual players to develop the skills and mindsets to enhance that side of their game (slimani, mahrez, grey, ndidi etc) - for an hour each day.

Good post.

The tactical issue is a worry. It was encouraging to hear Shakespeare say that he brought in Iborra to give us greater tactical variety as it implied he understood that we need different ways of playing; however, it was less encouraging to see us show up at Wolves with the same formation, tactics and players (barring Maguire) as last season, and playing as badly as we did in the final days of Ranieri's regime. 

 

The lack of creativity is also a real worry - and that's assuming Mahrez stays. If he leaves and we don't find a very good replacement, it will become a serious, serious concern. We badly need a genuinely creative central midfielder, and if we can't find one we need to start looking at other options from the squad, including Lawrence. Drinkwater is not a creative midfielder in any meaningful sense.

 

Hopefully in a few months' time those of us who are concerned now will look back and wonder what we were worrying about, but I've just got this nagging concern that unless we freshen things up by becoming more tactically flexible and adding creativity, we'll become the team that all the others love to play as we're so predictable.

 

 

[Babylon]

People actually judging him because he thought being defensive against one of the best teams in the world was the right thing to do.

[Babylon]

The only thing holding us back again will be the desire of the players (barring a managerial disaster - which I don't think he would be). Have they rediscovered it now after last season which was a disaster, but at least understandable. This season it's not, if the hunger isn't back by now then it never will be and it might take a clear out of the squad to get it back.

[Fox92]

1 hour ago, sylofox said:

Pre season means feck all. No points for beating wolves and mk. All that matters is the players are getting a good run out.

 

If he was playing a full first team in every game I would be worried but mix and match in every game naahhhh.

 

Did we not have a shite pre season the year we won promotion.

The style of play is horrid and we don't create chances. At least when we won promotion we looked decent in pre season in terms of scoring - we lost three games (one of which was a good Monaco side and the other wasn't even our best team against a side like Coalville or Nuneaton).

[filbertway]

Hard to tell until he's had some time but I'm a little concerned we're not trying to get in more players that can play football and do damage in the other teams half and we don't seem to be trying anything other than the awful long smashes and sitting on the edge of our box.

 

For me, my gut feeling after seeing his approach to most games after the new manager bounce have been very uninspiring. Starts off trying to squeeze life from any game, then goes mental when we inevitably concede. 

 

I don't see how things are magically going to improve by trying basically the same thing, so best case we'll probably finish around 9th/10th if it's as tight as last year. I'd imagine we'll finish somewhere around 12th-15th though.

 

His actions don't seem to match his words though, he talks a great game and had me convinced that we'd be looking to push for a European spot this season. The signings and pretty similar style of football though seems to indicate he believes that this team has the ability to do that without reinforcements. Unless Iborra turns out to be one of the best box to box midfielders in world football though I very much doubt that will be the case.

 

I may end up looking like a reactionary fool, as someone who usually tries to look for potential positives in a situation though, I'm seeing very few at the minute. I didn't catch the Mk Dons or Wolves games and watched very little of the Luton game. From what I've read on here it's been people saying we look very poor or people making excuses for us looking very poor.

 

I just hate the idea of us becoming a team that's happy to settle for mediocrity, under O'Neil when the purse strings were tight it was an incredible achievement to manage a top 10 finish and have some cup runs. Now we have a fair bit of financial backing and are paying players 100k+ my expectations of the club are a little higher now.

[WigstonWanderer]

As a side note, I'm not a gambler and rarely do so, however, you can currently get 16/1 on relegation. I don't think we'll go down, however there's a good chance we'll be near the bottom after the first few matches due to the hard start. I'd expect the odds to reduce in that case, which should mean you could cash out at a profit.

[foxy boxing]

only time will tell if he can get it right or not! needs to be his own man, yes listen to people and take on board there advice but ultimately it is about how he has and will transition from being number two to the top man

[Babylon]

I just hope people realise that it's the long game that matters. Pearson made mistakes, he was too defensive sometimes, he put too much trust in some players and rarely trusted others who perhaps deserved a bit more. What mattered though was he took us forward, he left us better off each season.

[sylofox]

34 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The only thing holding us back again will be the desire of the players (barring a managerial disaster - which I don't think he would be). Have they rediscovered it now after last season which was a disaster, but at least understandable. This season it's not, if the hunger isn't back by now then it never will be and it might take a clear out of the squad to get it back.

Agreed but I don't see a clear out happening. It's not like doors are being knocked down at the KP with people wanting our squad.

 

It seems our long term plans are none existent. Also seems the club like some fans are to loyal to players.

 

Some of the long term contracts given out are ridiculous. We could not give away Wes or Huth. Ulloa why has he been given a new contract. Let's be honest Vardy Mahrez and Drinky have been far from value for the huge contracts/reward they got last season.

 

Seems to me hearts and not brains are running the club.

[Babylon]

5 minutes ago, sylofox said:

Agreed but I don't see a clear out happening. It's not like doors are being knocked down at the KP with people wanting our squad.

 

It seems our long term plans are none existent. Also seems the club like some fans are to loyal to players.

 

Some of the long term contracts given out are ridiculous. We could not give away Wes or Huth. Ulloa why has he been given a new contract. Let's be honest Vardy Mahrez and Drinky have been far from value for the huge contracts/reward they got last season.

 

Seems to me hearts and not brains are running the club.

Only contract I really have an issue with is Ulloa, who I don't think has even signed yet has he?

 

I see us at least trying to remedy the problem areas in terms of age. Maguire and Ihenacho are in exactly the right areas for that so I they've at least seen that issue themselves and are planning ahead.

 

It's going to be a case of long term phasing out, which is probably the best way to go about it anyway. With a few players we have to take a hit on to shift them out quicker.

[Dan]

4 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

'Everton and Palace could be forgiven considering we were basically safe barring a disaster'

 

It may be just me but I don't 'forgive' this sort of thing. In fact it's that sort of attitude that got us into a mess in the first place. It wreaks of players being able to turn it on or put a 100% shift in when they feel like it. A really good manager creates an atmosphere where everyone knows and more importantly believes that this is unacceptable. The players quite rightly were put under a lot of pressure to perform and put the season before's effort in when Ranieri was sacked and guess what,  they managed it! As soon as we were nearly safe the performances dropped off again. It takes maximum effort every game to win anything, we know this because we've seen it with our own eyes. This bunch of players are not talented enough to win without maximum effort.

 

If performances dropped off again it therefore for me suggested that the same problems were underlying. As Shakespeare, who as originally part of the winning team, but also part of the subsequent demise, was now in charge, this relapse was on his watch after some good effort and results. Therefore for me, although very popular with the players (possibly to much), Shakespeare was not the option to take us forward for me and a change was needed with or without him. The problem was who was likely to want to come, were we really a now an attractive enough a proposition under all the circumstances for a really top manager if one was available?  I think that is why the big delay in appointing Shakespeare occurred as I think our owners wanted better and couldn't get it. For me Shakespeare is merely a 'second choice Charlie' and success is at best hopeful and wing and a prayer. I hope I'm very wrong because he seems like a genuine nice bloke, but sometimes it just far to easy to walk over a nice boss! Also a new boss may have been reluctant to come if he believes that the team is being run by the dressing room.

I meant forgiven in the sense we had the Atletico games and as a result we changed half a team for both.

 

Agree with the majority of what you've written to be honest. I remember being quite proud after we thumped QPR 5-1 a meaningless game, and it largely summed up both sides.

Edited 31 July 2017 by Dan LCFC

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, Dan LCFC said:

I meant forgiven in the sense we had the Atletico games and as a result we changed half a team for both.

 

Agree with the majority of what you've written to be honest. I remember being quite proud after we thumped QPR 5-1 a meaningless game, and it largely summed up both sides.

Point taken I see what you mean. I also remember that QPR game and felt very proud too that in a meaningless game, our players seemed up for it. Love him or hate him I also thought that Joey Barton played well for them and also showed a lot of desire, though he was the only one. Their team had become the epitomy of everything a fan hates due to too much player power,  I remember 'Harry' almost saying as much. Although he may well be criticised for some things quite rightly, this was one area of man management I think Pearson got right when he returned to Leicester,  there were a few notables in the dressing room that were above their station. NP gradually weeded them out and they all got to realise that it was his way or the highway. A few footballers these days have an inflated opinion of themselves and it sometimes needs management to be like that. From what I've heard down at training you have some very professional and willing workhorses like Fuchsia , Huth , Ndidi and Armarty to name but a few,  but there are some of the other kind perhaps.

[Dan]

16 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Point taken I see what you mean. I also remember that QPR game and felt very proud too that in a meaningless game, our players seemed up for it. Love him or hate him I also thought that Joey Barton played well for them and also showed a lot of desire, though he was the only one. Their team had become the epitomy of everything a fan hates due to too much player power,  I remember 'Harry' almost saying as much. Although he may well be criticised for some things quite rightly, this was one area of man management I think Pearson got right when he returned to Leicester,  there were a few notables in the dressing room that were above their station. NP gradually weeded them out and they all got to realise that it was his way or the highway. A few footballers these days have an inflated opinion of themselves and it sometimes needs management to be like that. From what I've heard down at training you have some very professional and willing workhorses like Fuchsia , Huth , Ndidi and Armarty to name but a few,  but there are some of the other kind perhaps.

The Everton game last year as well, fair enough you don't want to get carried away and end up getting well beaten on such an occasion but we could've easily had 6 or 7 that day and we had nothing to actually play for.

 

It hardly ever happened under Pearson, only time I can remember was the Brighton game after we got promoted. I seem to remember us winning the majority of our games after that though.

 

I'm not defending the performances against Everton or Palace but I can forgive him for changing the team in both given we had Atletico.

[Trav Le Bleu]

16 hours ago, GaelicFox said:

They aren't short ..... I actually think that we might get off to a very slow start and those odds will tumble and fast 

 

the press will read too much into the length of time it took to make shaky the manager , the bookies will respond to the press hunting for shaky if we start slow 

 

I think 10/1 is probably over priced 

 

Hope Im wrong but it's a fairly thought start to season 

 

Sorry, misunderstood what you meant by overpriced. It took it as meaning "generous", that is, should have been shorter.

[Johnthefoxrayner]

On 29/07/2017 at 23:50, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

What an absolute load of toss this thread is

I agree. Negative comments about Shakey, he will be fine, imo will do a Good  job,, but already people are wanting him sacked. We also need to support Shakey he saved us from relegation last season. 

 

[cc_star]

Statto seems to be down at the moment

 

But I'm sure Shakey's Leicester team was 6th in the league if you take the table as the day he took over through ti the end of the season

 

Considering the game against Sevilla & two against Atletico where he had to manage resting in a way that he won't have to again.... That's blooming amazing.

 

My concern is we could be bottom 3 after 6 games (given strength of opposition) and have the stuffing knocked out of us, potentially looking for a yet another manager by October

[Johnthefoxrayner]

6 minutes ago, cc_star said:

Statto seems to be down at the moment

 

But I'm sure Shakey's Leicester team was 6th in the league if you take the table as the day he took over through ti the end of the season

 

Considering the game against Sevilla & two against Atletico where he had to manage resting in a way that he won't have to again.... That's blooming amazing.

 

My concern is we could be bottom 3 after 6 games (given strength of opposition) and have the stuffing knocked out of us, potentially looking for a yet another manager by October

I don't think that will happen tbh

The owners will give him time 

[brucey]

4 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

As a side note, I'm not a gambler and rarely do so, however, you can currently get 16/1 on relegation. I don't think we'll go down, however there's a good chance we'll be near the bottom after the first few matches due to the hard start. I'd expect the odds to reduce in that case, which should mean you could cash out at a profit.

Would not advise this. The cash out percentage on relegation markets is lower than most. Plus the odds generally don't change much early in the season. We were around 5/1 relegation odds last season for absolutely ages despite being in 17th and not scoring.

[WigstonWanderer]

11 minutes ago, brucey said:

Would not advise this. The cash out percentage on relegation markets is lower than most. Plus the odds generally don't change much early in the season. We were around 5/1 relegation odds last season for absolutely ages despite being in 17th and not scoring.

I hope no one took my comments as advice. As I say, I rarely gamble and so don't have much experience in the practicalities. Obviously the bookies want to make a profit, so for example, if you took a bet at 15 to 1 and the odds later reduced to 5 to 1, I wouldn't expect to be able to cash out at 15/5 = 3 to 1. 

Edited 31 July 2017 by WigstonWanderer

[Guest Col city fan]

On the plus side, I'm currently at my caravan at the East Coast (no, that's not the plus bit) and chatting to a Hull City season ticket holder. He said, with no uncertainty, we've signed a class act in Maguire. This fella believes he'll go on to play for England.

[RobHawk]

Those wanting a full overhaul of the squad and team - are morons! Plain and simple was never going to happen. You are only outdone by those worrying about performances in pre season games - come on guys get a grip! I haven't seen the recent games but we looked alright in hong kong and regardless its pre season, it means nothing!!!! 

 

Looking at the transfers in so far, i'm impressed. We are getting the right type of players in areas we need! 

 

Without a doubt we need to get rid of some players, and i'm sure some will leave - but its not just as easy as saying get rid! 

 

Is he the right man - 100% yes! 

 

Do you wanna know how i know that? The only other name mentioned in this thread to be in charge in his place? Fat Sam! Who else would be in charge?

 

Whether or not he is successful, he earned his chance last season and i'm pleased to support a team where he was given that chance - it doesn't happen often in this day and age! He knows the club, the players and the fans - He will give it his all and i truly believe he will give us a team to be proud of! 

 

 

[Bryn]

I just can't escape the feeling that we needed revolution. The title winners are ageing and have been figured out and I'm seeing no signs that we've adapted.

 

I think for us to become a perennial top half Prem team we needed an almost entirely new back four (I'd keep Simpson and make Chilwell first choice, plus two new centrebacks) and to move to a midfieid three, with some ability to retain possession but also trigger rapid counter attacks. It's all well and good being lethal on the counter but only having one pace to play at is predictable even if that pace is lightning.

 

For the future of the club we really need to look to our academy and development squad as well. Outside of the economic leviathans of the game that is the only way to compete at the top; see the likes of Spurs/Monaco/Porto.

[BlueTillIDie]

What ever happened to getting behind the team, Jesus some of our fans arent happy uless they are moaning or slating someone!

 

He earned his stripes with us last season and payed his dues at the club, id much rather have Shakey at the helm than some foreign has been that is here for his last pay day.

 

Lets get behind him and the lads instead of moaning and bitching before pre season is even over!!!

[Clever Fox]

3 hours ago, Col city fan said:

On the plus side, I'm currently at my caravan at the East Coast (no, that's not the plus bit) and chatting to a Hull City season ticket holder. He said, with no uncertainty, we've signed a class act in Maguire. This fella believes he'll go on to play for England.

We should have signed him when we took a look at him at Sheff Utd. He is quality and will be here hopefully for a long time.

I also think he will play for England. We just need to find him a worthy partner.

[Bryn]

37 minutes ago, BlueTillIDie said:

What ever happened to getting behind the team, Jesus some of our fans arent happy uless they are moaning or slating someone!

 

He earned his stripes with us last season and payed his dues at the club, id much rather have Shakey at the helm than some foreign has been that is here for his last pay day.

 

Lets get behind him and the lads instead of moaning and bitching before pre season is even over!!!

 

It's a forum for discussing the club, anyone who mindlessly happy claps without actually thinking about what is going on is a bit of a cretin really.