Puel

[Ric Flair]

I think he's decent. 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

How he handles players and the decisions he makes causes a lot of confusion in the dressing room.

[Happy Fox]

48 minutes ago, Donut said:

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. However I would say another similarity between what we are seeing here, and what Southampton saw, is that Southampton binned him before he could start to address the weaknesses in their squad, like the loss of Fonte, and to gradually look for players to replace the stars like Wanyama, Mane etc, which is a very difficult task for a club of Southamptons size, not dissimilar to ours.

 

The getting fired up thing is interesting to me. Ive played sports before. Not to a super high level, but ive played. You fire yourself up, you have pride. You don't want to let your opponent get the better of you. If you've got players who think issuing a half hearted apology after losing 5-0 in a game makes things ok, Theres a big problem. That's not really the manager. He has to bear the brunt of what happened but theres no way even the wrong tactics will lose a game 5-0, that really is people giving up.

 

But the other side to the problem is, Puel takes the vast, vast majority of the criticism. So its easy for players to hide behind this. Im not saying we should start slagging all the players off constantly, but in all this they are getting far, far, far to easy a ride they really are. We really should be questioning some of these players, particularly in my opinion the likes of Morgan, Albrighton, Chilwell, Okazaki much more.

 

I also find it disappointing how the players seemed initially fired up and enjoying their football under Puel, for it now to look so bad. What prompted the change? I cant imagine training can be THAT different, you cant reinvent the wheel.

 

It leaves a sour taste for me. Im not saying Puel is the messiah, or perhaps hes not even the right man, but hes had a rough deal I think here.

 

 

 

Yet Puel selects them you cannot have it both ways mate.

[st albans fox]

13 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

How he handles players and the decisions he makes causes a lot of confusion in the dressing room.

Which became Claudio's problem as he began to complicate things 

 

 

[UPinCarolina]

Puel selects the players at his disposal because he has no other choices. He can't go out and bin them off, and he can't sign others.

The worst you can say about his selection is that he's kept Morgan in. We can all see why you would experiment at RB, we're all aware of the red card and injury issues in midfield, as well as injury issues at striker and in the back 4....what is he supposed to do? Who is there to fall back on? Maybe he shouldn't have sat Silva - I can agree with that.

[Donut]

Just now, Happy Fox said:

 

Yet Puel selects them you cannot have it both ways mate.

He doesn't have a wealth of options in some positions.

 

Recently, hes had central midfield issues to contend with. Yes, he preferred James in a lot of games, and I didn't get that at all, but recently hes had the season ending injury to Iborra, hes had the Ndidi suspension and hes given some game time to Choudhry which I don't see as a bad thing to be honest. He decided to loan out King but did we think he could do a good job?

 

Hes chopped and changed the number 10 position because hes trying to find some kind of formula and cant. Iheanacho has been a flop and Okazaki is so technically poor, those are his options in that position.

 

At the back, I definitely agree he should have kept Dragovic in the team. Its difficult to make an outright decision to drop the league winning captain of the club out of the side, would this have prompted more unrest? I don't know but just on ability Dragovic would be in the team. I think if Morgan wasn't pne of the clubs main men, hed have been straight out.

 

The full back positions too, he has Simpson who is solid, but at left back hes got Chilwell who is learning his trade and prone to errors, or he has Fuchs who is over the hill, slow and pretty ineffective.

 

We just need better options and to change the squad around.

 

I cannot excuse losing 5-0 or some of the poor performances we have seen, inexcusable. But I do think he still deserves more time. If we are useless after a couple of months of next season, absolutely get rid, that's the right call then. By then we would have some better players to work with you would hope too.

[STUHILL]

1 hour ago, walkerleeds said:

 

It's notoriously extremely difficult to make signings in the January window, let alone signings to try and change the entire complexion of the squad. I also think it's similarly difficult to drop established, influential and senior players such as Morgan and Simpson if they are available for selection. Morgan was actually very good at the start of Puel's reign remember, so not picking (before injury) an in form fully fit club captain really would have a rocked the boat in what is by all accounts a volatile group of players, don't you think?

 

I would 100% share your concern if in the new season we continue to play Morgan and Simpson etc whilst trying to play this passing style, but i'm happy to start the season with him at the helm and really hope our recruitment team (it isn't Puel's job to get deals over the line, merely to recommend signings remember) do their job this summer to support him. Sadly, he is a dead man walking and all of the above is all fairly futile, but that's my take on it.

I take your points and agree on Wes early season form, although he should never have been brought back in and then kept his place after the injury because Dragovic was/is much the better option now. It was a poor decision then and continues to be as he persists with it.

 

As for upsetting the squad dropping the captain.. who cares? We are losing anyway! A happy winning squad and yes I agree, don't rock the boat. Bloody rock it if we are losing and on this appalling run of form! 

 

The lack of much needed activity in the window I can accept may have been out of his control, although with our spending power and pull of being a "top 8" Prem Club, I find it a little odd with a full window and months to plan. It could have had a big impact for us and even got us that 7th spot. The problem with waiting for your no.1 targets, there may never be a right time or situation and so that's why you have a whole team working on a number of  others and so how have we ended up again with only one recognised RB. An ageing, underperforming one that doesn't suit the manager's style in anyway. Big failure in my view, whether his or the recruitment team.

 

One thing I do struggle to see past is how not one player has improved since his time here. Surely that is of concern?

The players certainly don't want to go out there and lose and not score or keep clean sheets! So why has not one player progressed under him?

 

To be given more time, we have to see progression or some evidence that with more time and a transfer window he will get us battling for top 7. How many months in the job now and where is the evidence of that? 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 3 May 2018 by STUHILL

[reynard]

35 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

How he handles players and the decisions he makes causes a lot of confusion in the dressing room.

If you are correct then I simply cannot see how we can proceed with him as manager. Communication and imparting your ideas is a key to successful management whatever business you're in.

I think this is quite a worrying statement.

[Happy Fox]

16 minutes ago, Donut said:

He doesn't have a wealth of options in some positions.

 

Recently, hes had central midfield issues to contend with. Yes, he preferred James in a lot of games, and I didn't get that at all, but recently hes had the season ending injury to Iborra, hes had the Ndidi suspension and hes given some game time to Choudhry which I don't see as a bad thing to be honest. He decided to loan out King but did we think he could do a good job?

 

Hes chopped and changed the number 10 position because hes trying to find some kind of formula and cant. Iheanacho has been a flop and Okazaki is so technically poor, those are his options in that position.

 

At the back, I definitely agree he should have kept Dragovic in the team. Its difficult to make an outright decision to drop the league winning captain of the club out of the side, would this have prompted more unrest? I don't know but just on ability Dragovic would be in the team. I think if Morgan wasn't pne of the clubs main men, hed have been straight out.

 

The full back positions too, he has Simpson who is solid, but at left back hes got Chilwell who is learning his trade and prone to errors, or he has Fuchs who is over the hill, slow and pretty ineffective.

 

We just need better options and to change the squad around.

 

I cannot excuse losing 5-0 or some of the poor performances we have seen, inexcusable. But I do think he still deserves more time. If we are useless after a couple of months of next season, absolutely get rid, that's the right call then. By then we would have some better players to work with you would hope too.

 

You make some good points, I don't think the owners will be too forgiving to be honest, they probably expected 7th position and/or winning a cup competition that has not happened. I think they will wait till the end of the season to make a decision either way, but if a better manager becomes available they will probably part ways.

 

If he is stubborn which it seems he can be from reports, then he is only going one way. But the owners really need to look at the whole footballing side, and ask questions, because the likes of Rudkin have got away scot-free.

 

 

[Ian Nacho]

44 minutes ago, UPinCarolina said:

Puel selects the players at his disposal because he has no other choices. He can't go out and bin them off, and he can't sign others.

The worst you can say about his selection is that he's kept Morgan in. We can all see why you would experiment at RB, we're all aware of the red card and injury issues in midfield, as well as injury issues at striker and in the back 4....what is he supposed to do? Who is there to fall back on? Maybe he shouldn't have sat Silva - I can agree with that.

 

Has the choice to play either a winger or right-back at right-back. Chooses the winger against arguably one of the best attacks outside the top 6, especially down the wing.

[FrankieADZ]

53 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

One thing I do struggle to see past is how not one player has improved since his time here. Surely that is of concern?

Ndidi has improved imo, his passing ability is alot better since Puel came.

 

[Rusko187]

5 hours ago, Donut said:

What it is, is that you are disappointed your desperate ambition for him to be gone hasn't been fulfilled yet.

 

Itll just be a malaise rather than a "toxic" atmosphere.

 

If we do sack Puel which could very well happen, he would have been sacked without chance to really make any moves to change things in the summer.

 

But we all know the next manager will be given more time. He has to be, because all of those calling for Puel out will by default have to defend the new manager to the hilt if things start going wrong.

I’ll stand by a manager that I feel has the backing of the squad and staff. Unfortunate Puel has neither of these and his tactics are crap.

 

I stuck by Pearson in the great escape season because I knew we were unlucky, I won’t stick by Puel because it’s down to him for our failures! He’s changed the way we play from exciting attacking football that won games to boring possession sidewards football and not getting results.

 

What is the point in keeping a bad manager when simply he doesn’t fit/work for our team! 

[STUHILL]

1 minute ago, FrankieADZ said:

Ndidi has improved imo, his passing ability is alot better since Puel came.

 

 1 player since October has improved under him? I want more than that if we are to stick with this manager. 

 

Add this issue to a handful of others including our run of form, and he really has got an uphill struggle to keep his job.

 

I honestly think his future depends on this West Ham game. Win it convincingly and he may be given the summer. Lose and I think he's done. 

 

 

[notnow john]

57 minutes ago, Ian Nacho said:

Has the choice to play either a winger or right-back at right-back. Chooses the winger against arguably one of the best attacks outside the top 6, especially down the wing.

This is spot on and what help did Albrighton get from Mahrez?

Palace targeted our right flank with huge success and Puel didn't have a clue how to stop it.

 

[Bakerl]

I will probably get slated four this....but. I remember the cup game against Peterborough. We played Barnes, Inachio, Diabate, Gray up front and it worked. The passing was excellent, and although it was only Peterborough , I really think this combination will work against any team. We do not need Vardy or Mahrez.... there I've said it.

[STUHILL]

5 minutes ago, Bakerl said:

I will probably get slated four this....but. I remember the cup game against Peterborough. We played Barnes, Inachio, Diabate, Gray up front and it worked. The passing was excellent, and although it was only Peterborough , I really think this combination will work against any team. We do not need Vardy or Mahrez.... there I've said it.

I stopped reading after the 'Inachio' spelling 

 

[sacreblueits442]

52 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

 1 player since October has improved under him? I want more than that if we are to stick with this manager. 

 

Add this issue to a handful of others including our run of form, and he really has got an uphill struggle to keep his job.

 

I honestly think his future depends on this West Ham game. Win it convincingly and he may be given the summer. Lose and I think he's done. 

 

 

....I am really not sure anyone has improved under Puel. He has made comments as to bringing in young players and improving them, he makes comments on the performances and his observations are the complete opposite of what has transpired.

  If we go on what we see as opposed to his previous history (which was sometime ago) then the option to terminate his contract is irrefutable.

[SecretPro]

2 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

How he handles players and the decisions he makes causes a lot of confusion in the dressing room.

Boo hoo poor players sad face. Puel tried to teach them to do something other than lump it forward and they had an easier ride trying to comprehend quantum physics. Need someone in the dressing room to tell half of our lot they're shit or past it. Time somebody had the balls to actually take charge. 

Edited 3 May 2018 by SecretPro

[kristianity77]

It's been well over a decade I'd guess since we've had a toxic atmosphere at the ground. If we go a goal or two down early doors at the weekend I think we will see the start of one personally. I could see a loud rendition of "you don't know what your doing" piping up if things go badly. 

[1972 Fox]

On 30/04/2018 at 21:05, vanity said:

This is the heart of things. I am all-in* on Puel, as I think he can create the sort of strategic advantage that can sustain us. But if we move on, fine, but we need someone better we can commit to. You are absolutely right that we lack the players to play his system, and his personnel decisions are f'ing inscrutable at times. FFS, (1) we need to have at least one CM who can handle the ball capably EVERY F'ING GAME, the Chelsea draw notwithstanding, that means Iborra or Silva, and one is hurt, and (2) just getting up shots is irrelevant, we need players who can score taking shots, it does us no good to have players like Chilwell, Maguire, Simpson, Albrighton, etc. putting up shots, these guys are playing on the backline partially bc they aren't goal-scorers.

 

Even Maguire, who I love on this side, sure, he can get fwd and use his head, but he's not quality with the ball at his feet if we need a goal. Chilwell is the same, I keep hearing how Chilwell is exactly what Puel wants in a RB, and all I can think is "what, an avg Prem defender who doesn't score goals or meaningfully participate in the attack?"

 

In isolation, this is not a problem, we are getting better players. And our squad has some whiny quitters on it, let's not kid ourselves. But I keep coming back to something critical:

 

CLAUDE SEEMS WHOLLY INCAPABLE OF EITHER INSPIRING OR LEADING MEN.

 

He seems arrogant and detached, as though he needn't trouble with tending to the players as human beings, and the communication failures.have lost him the locker room veterans from all reports.

 

So I am at a bit of a loss. Puel's can make us very good if the players buy in, and he is a helluva teacher. Christ, what he did after a couple weeks at the helm was unreal in terms of getting players who couldn't string 2 passes together to play deft, attacking possession football. But if he cannot improve his communication, if he's going to lose the locker room this easily, if he is t going to improve his English this summer, he needs to f'ing go.

 

Let's be clear, that doesn't mean the players aren't more to blame than Puel. They are. But his failings are fatal if uncorrected. If he can plausibly resolve to do so, I say keep him (unless we can get Benitez or someone of that stature). But these players have just about killed 3 managers in 8 months. They are to blame for not playing hard. They are professionals, they owe the paying fans their best effort, win or lose. And we haven't gotten that since the Chelsea FA match, and that was an outlier, we've been going through the motions longer than that.

 

*he is focused on building a program top-to-bottom, rather than being focused exclusively on the senior club, he is a teacher who wants the freedom to develop and play younger players, he is a tactician who has taken smaller clubs and made runs deep into the CL, he is keen to prove he can do it at the Prem level but his rep isn't strong enough we'll have to worry about him leaving immediately, etc.

Some good points.

 

Just had a thought regarding your last paragraph. If this is the case then maybe a possibility would be to sack Rudkin and move Puel 'upstairs' to the DOF role to implement his plans to build the club. Appoint a first team manager who fits in with Claude's strategic direction but is more charismatic and better at communicating with the players, the fans and the media.

 

We might then start seeing things improve on and off the pitch in the short, medium and long term.

[FLAN]

28 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Boo hoo poor players sad face. Puel tried to teach them to do something other than lump it forward and they had an easier ride trying to comprehend quantum physics. Need someone in the dressing room to tell half of our lot they're shit or past it. Time somebody had the balls to actually take charge. 

 

Like a manager?

[st albans fox]

41 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Boo hoo poor players sad face. Puel tried to teach them to do something other than lump it forward and they had an easier ride trying to comprehend quantum physics. Need someone in the dressing room to tell half of our lot they're shit or past it. Time somebody had the balls to actually take charge. 

 

not sure that's what was being said ........ 

 

 

[nettle]

3 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

How he handles players and the decisions he makes causes a lot of confusion in the dressing room.

So basically you're saying he has lost the dressing room then?

[RODNEY FERNIO]

The thing is once the Mahrez money comes in plus the funds from other players plus an already substantial spending pot

..... will the owners trust him to spend it wisely ??? He deserves more time ... but will he get it ??

It's a crucial time for the club and if Wilf and Harry's heads are turned we are deep in the smelly stuff .

[Matt]

3 minutes ago, RODNEY FERNIO said:

The thing is once the Mahrez money comes in plus the funds from other players plus an already substantial spending pot

..... will the owners trust him to spend it wisely ??? He deserves more time ... but will he get it ??

It's a crucial time for the club and if Wilf and Harry's heads are turned we are deep in the smelly stuff .

He wouldn't be spending it anyway, I don't know why people don't understand that.

 

The question should be should the owners trust Rudkin and the recruitment team to spend it wisely?

The answer is a defiant no!