The "do they mean us?" thread pt 2

[HighPeakFox]

Really very well written. 

[baldeagle]

Yep agreed with all above very good piece 

[mod hero]

What a read. A journalist who actually knows his apples 

[CosbehFox]

Agreed with all the comments here. Storey is probably the best writer going at the moment. He’s not attached to any media source, so he can write what he wants. 

 

The point about living in the past is what I’ve trying to make a while but he’s made it ten times better than I could. 

[shade]

don’t agree that he was sold as a mid season firefighter and don’t agree that that’s how he is seen.

Edited 2 October 2018 by shade

[Corky]

2 hours ago, Stadt said:

I wondered who’d written that as it’s an exceptional piece, should have guessed it was Daniel Storey. He’s a Forest fan but born in Loughborough iirc, so he knows us better than most journalists do.

 

It’s esoteric the malaise that’s set in with us as a club, I’ve not seen any article get as close as that does to describing our position.

He's really good about us, doesn't patronise us and has defended us in the past when journalists decided we should pack up and get relegated after winning the title.

[fuchsntf]

People can write what they like,and put up various perspective,and put the tendency leaning towards either the positive or negative...

This article I have no real complaints,on the path it takes,but doesn't really put the situation that any manager was going to find

Himself in after Ranieri tenure was over....We had an old squad,young players unknown showing glances of potential.

 

The rebuilding process needs,the balancing act required while trying to keep onto 1-4 stars,that could well be in their last 1-2 seasons.

Costly investments,which just didn't or couldn't get themselves after many chances,into the PL mentality and pace.

2 new additions,in Iborra and Silva bringing over with them top CVs...but none of it Puels,but  he would see potential and know the transistion,is Going to only really start,at the end of that 1st seaso,where first priorities were....Jiggle a top half position..find out who he wants to take further with him into the next up and coming 2 seasons,hoping anybody left can has youth,develops their potential,and then the experienced can deliver consistency and performances,that you can work with,to show and make progress.Then hopefully try and find new blood,that Gives short term cover,and also something to build on for the future.....

 

I don't and never did believe Puels tenure is/was under threat.He is still in a consolidate,and slow evolving phase.The owners were no way

Going to go for a real big name,with bullish promises. I have no idea what the owners and Puel secured and confirmed between themselves

on Future plans and team/club direction. But I feel safe it wasnt,guaranteeing top 4,or even top 7. In 2-3 seasons.

More like..after Stoke/WBA shortages... create a platform to 1stly  make us a consistent strong over  long period  PL team and club...

He himself,is still needing to find a reliable ,consistent group/squad of 14-16 players.one of the expected solid players Ndidi isn't

yet producing,that 1st name on list performances...So currently,I believe he knows for the squad "his" 1st priority choices,but not all

automatic gamedays choices...

 

From my perspective....players who make his Bbone are not so obvious....Schmeichel...Amartey(he hopes)...Chilwell..Maguire,Ndidi..Maddison..Vardy.

then Gray Nacho.  Albrighton between team and Bench...The others are still needing to earn their corn.

In some quarters expectations on individuals and teams season expectations in my view too high...and have a tendency to over analyse

we have seen improvements and attack areas where we were weak over a few seasons.analyse

too many worrying about filling Mahrezs boots..he's gone!!  But in a grouping of Chilwell,Maddison,Nacho/Gray,Ghezzi we will have maybe

a far better potential,in team flexibility and approach,covering more attacking and release points.

Edited 2 October 2018 by fuchsntf

[Carl the Llama]

What's he basing the assertion that Puel's in any danger on?  Bookies odds and tabloid sensationalism?  Or maybe he's spoken to a few of our more boorish fans.

 

I also think it's a bit patronising to talk like the title win's the only achievement we're going to make during the Thai's era with us or to compare using recent success as a motivational tool at the ground to Forest Fans stuck in the 70's, if we're still doing it half a century from now he'll have a point mind you.  At this moment in time the owners are making a serious effort to improve the club and its infrastructure precisely to avoid the same fate as all those teams he listed, judge the futility of those efforts once the outcome is known.

 

The ironic thing is he kind of hits on why Puel's not currently in danger throughout that article so I took the liberty of editing out the unnecessary bits and rearranging it a little to make more sense:

Quote

Everywhere you go at the King Power, you bump into reminders of Leicester’s annus mirabilis. The press room is adorned with newspaper cuttings of the squad lifting the Premier League trophy. The club megastore still sells commemorative merchandise. Before every home game, a video plays on the big screen to remind supporters of their season in the sun. The montage ends with Jamie Vardy, Wes Morgan, N’Golo Kante and Riyad Mahrez et al.. Leicester can hardly be blamed for celebrating such magnificent overachievement so readily - Every unfancied club dreams of Leicester's unfathomable success.

 

After seven games played, Leicester City sit eighth in the Premier League. They are three points behind Tottenham in fourth, having already faced two of the pre-season title favourites.

This comes after losing their most talented attacking player in the summer, and while trying to blend in a number of new players. The 10 outfielders who began their last home game started only 141 league games for Leicester last season; Harry Maguire, Jamie Vardy and Wilfred Ndidi accounted for 108. By any reasonable expectation, it has been a positive start to 2018/19. To repeat: Leicester are eighth. Puel is a manager who builds the house. He was tasked with providing stability; Leicester face an unfamiliar journey, with Claude Puel. Happy new season, everyone.

 

 

 

[Leeds Fox]

4 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

What's he basing the assertion that Puel's in any danger on?  Bookies odds and tabloid sensationalism?  Or maybe he's spoken to a few of our more boorish fans.

 

I also think it's a bit patronising to talk like the title win's the only achievement we're going to make during the Thai's era with us or to compare using recent success as a motivational tool at the ground to Forest Fans stuck in the 70's, if we're still doing it half a century from now he'll have a point mind you.  At this moment in time the owners are making a serious effort to improve the club and its infrastructure precisely to avoid the same fate as all those teams he listed, judge the futility of those efforts once the outcome is known.

 

The ironic thing is he kind of hits on why Puel's not currently in danger throughout that article so I took the liberty of editing out the unnecessary bits and rearranging it a little to make more sense:

 

 

 

He mentioned the bookmakers odds in his article. That market is created by the money going into it so people clearly thought his job was in jeopardy. The news tabloids do push out some s*** but the articles about CP’s uncertain future most likely came from the bookies odds (stemming from people putting money on him leaving), it’s a cycle. 

 

The reason the journalist thought his job was in danger at some stages isn’t a big deal, I’d imagine it was at some stages.

 

Well written and even if people don’t agree with the content, he does make some valid points. Leicester fans will read it and most likely have an idea what’s going on anyway, the chances are it was written aimed at the wider football interested audience.

[gw_leics772]

17 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

What's he basing the assertion that Puel's in any danger on?  Bookies odds and tabloid sensationalism?  Or maybe he's spoken to a few of our more boorish fans.

 

I also think it's a bit patronising to talk like the title win's the only achievement we're going to make during the Thai's era with us or to compare using recent success as a motivational tool at the ground to Forest Fans stuck in the 70's, if we're still doing it half a century from now he'll have a point mind you.  At this moment in time the owners are making a serious effort to improve the club and its infrastructure precisely to avoid the same fate as all those teams he listed, judge the futility of those efforts once the outcome is known.

 

The ironic thing is he kind of hits on why Puel's not currently in danger throughout that article so I took the liberty of editing out the unnecessary bits and rearranging it a little to make more sense:

 

 

Yeah, no. It definitely read better in the original.

 

I think you are seeing what you want to see in the original article.

 

It was excellently written, and not at all patronising imo. 

 

He is basing his assertion on the bookies odds, tabloid sensationalism, AND 90% of what we read on here. He's bang on the money and telling non Leicester fans what is really happening here.

 

The additional comments you add could easily be included in a longer piece but the man is writing freelance to earn money,and good luck to him if this is what he produces, but I seriously doubt if many non Leicester fans Could give two shits about your further analysis and as Leicester fans, we pretty much knew it anyway.

 

Nice to read something accurate about our team for once.

Edited 2 October 2018 by gw_leics772

[Carl the Llama]

15 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

He mentioned the bookmakers odds in his article. That market is created by the money going into it so people clearly thought his job was in jeopardy. The news tabloids do push out some s*** but the articles about CP’s uncertain future most likely came from the bookies odds (stemming from people putting money on him leaving), it’s a cycle. 

 

The reason the journalist thought his job was in danger at some stages isn’t a big deal, I’d imagine it was at some stages.

 

Well written and even if people don’t agree with the content, he does make some valid points. Leicester fans will read it and most likely have an idea what’s going on anyway, the chances are it was written aimed at the wider football interested audience.

Which is why I brought it up, bookies odds usually mean nothing as you know.  People may have thought Puel was in danger after certain defeats but that's no evidence that it was the case.  As a club people will have seen that we've been through 5 managers in as many years, not to mention after Ranieri's sacking some got the impression that the owners are too trigger happy, so of course people more removed from the club will consider the present Leicester manager as one of the more likely to go but for me the bits about being a substitute teacher would have rung more true in an article about Shakey than Claude, Puel was always going to be a long-term appointment and I don't see the Thais giving up on his project when we're bedding in new talent and still challenging for a spot in the upper reaches of the league.

 

7 minutes ago, gw_leics772 said:

Yeah, no. It definitely read better in the original.

 

I think you are seeing what you want to see in the original article.

 

It was excellently written, and not at all patronising imo. 

 

He is basing his assertion on the bookies odds, tabloid sensationalism, AND 90% of what we read on here. He's bang on the money and telling non Leicester fans what is really happening here.

 

The additional comments you add could easily be included in a longer piece but the man is writing freelance to earn money,and good luck to him if this is what he produces, but I seriously doubt if many non Leicester fans Could give two shits about your further analysis and as Leicester fans, we pretty much knew it anyway.

 

Nice to read something accurate about our team for once.

There's the problem:  Bookies odds mean naff all and 90% of what we read on here is utter bollox!

 

I don't see how him writing to earn money is relevant.

 

Finally no need to be rude, I'm just pointing out that with the owners being by all accounts fairly level headed people there's no reason yet to assume we're going shit or bust and will end up in the same boat as the examples he gave.

[Leeds Fox]

1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said:

Which is why I brought it up, bookies odds usually mean nothing as you know.  People may have thought Puel was in danger after certain defeats but that's no evidence that it was the case.  As a club people will have seen that we've been through 5 managers in as many years, not to mention after Ranieri's sacking some got the impression that the owners are too trigger happy, so of course people more removed from the club will consider the present Leicester manager as one of the more likely to go but for me the bits about being a substitute teacher would have rung more true in an article about Shakey than Claude, Puel was always going to be a long-term appointment and I don't see the Thais giving up on his project when we're bedding in new talent and still challenging for a spot in the upper reaches of the league.

 

There's the problem:  Bookies odds mean naff all and 90% of what we read on here is utter bollox!

 

I don't see how him writing to earn money is relevant.

 

Finally no need to be rude, I'm just pointing out that with the owners being by all accounts fairly level headed people there's no reason yet to assume we're going shit or bust and will end up in the same boat as the examples he gave.

 

I agree with Puel being a long-term manager and not a stop-gap. However things were going very sour towards the back end of last season. Poor results, reports of player unrest and it would have been the right time to make a change if the owners did want to make one. Like you mentioned, they are seen to be trigger happy (which I don’t think they are, they make a change when it’s needed). Puel could have quite easily been given the boot as soon as the season ended. 

 

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, you just seem to be looking to find fault with something for the sake of it. 

 

For the record, bookies odds on a manager being sacked can be a lot more accurate than you make out. It can also be a continuous cycle of Media > Varying Odds > Bets being placed > Media... and so on and so on. 

[Carl the Llama]

1 minute ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

I agree with Puel being a long-term manager and not a stop-gap. However things were going very sour towards the back end of last season. Poor results, reports of player unrest and it would have been the right time to make a change if the owners did want to make one. Like you mentioned, they are seen to be trigger happy (which I don’t think they are, they make a change when it’s needed). Puel could have quite easily been given the boot as soon as the season ended. 

 

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, you just seem to be looking to find fault with something for the sake of it. 

 

For the record, bookies odds on a manager being sacked can be a lot more accurate than you make out. It can also be a continuous cycle of Media > Varying Odds > Bets being placed > Media... and so on and so on. 

Possibly, I'm often dubious of 442 articles, but then I kind of feel like that's what the article's doing... I mean it calls Puel "collateral damage" in the title as though something's happened to him (and big bad Leicester did it) but what?  He's still here and doing just fine last I checked.  He writes about Claude's lack of job security as a matter of fact but, other than the general fact that any manager's position is under constant scrutiny, he doesn't know any more than you or I what the owners are thinking and personally I'm highly doubtful they've ever given serious thought to booting Puel.

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

I agree with Puel being a long-term manager and not a stop-gap. However things were going very sour towards the back end of last season. Poor results, reports of player unrest and it would have been the right time to make a change if the owners did want to make one. Like you mentioned, they are seen to be trigger happy (which I don’t think they are, they make a change when it’s needed). Puel could have quite easily been given the boot as soon as the season ended. 

 

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, you just seem to be looking to find fault with something for the sake of it. 

 

For the record, bookies odds on a manager being sacked can be a lot more accurate than you make out. It can also be a continuous cycle of Media > Varying Odds > Bets being placed > Media... and so on and so on. 

What players unrest!!!!

[Sol thewall Bamba]

"Puel is a manager who builds the house rather than hosts the parties." 

 

I like that. 

[CosbehFox]

Apparently the claims about him being up for the sack after three games were very well sourced. 

 

You have to remember too that newspapers are reliant on sales and for 80% of the time they need stories on the back which involve the biggest clubs to sell. To put that on their back page suggests there was a good source

[Captain...]

I don’t think anyone would be surprised to hear his job was in question, he could have been sacked on the spot after that Crystal Palace game. A couple of decent results towards the end of last season masked a very poor run and a missed opportunity to get into Europe. 

[fuchsntf]

11 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I don’t think anyone would be surprised to hear his job was in question, he could have been sacked on the spot after that Crystal Palace game. A couple of decent results towards the end of last season masked a very poor run and a missed opportunity to get into Europe. 

I bet the owners didn't think so...

Palace type games,are there every season,even for top clubs.Sorry @CAPTAIN,but Sails a faltering.

[fuchsntf]

40 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Apparently the claims about him being up for the sack after three games were very well sourced. 

 

You have to remember too that newspapers are reliant on sales and for 80% of the time they need stories on the back which involve the biggest clubs to sell. To put that on their back page suggests there was a good source

Welsh...logic ???

 

No matter how it ran, He's still here,really water under the bridge.

More likely,they the source were well off Target. 

This grinding out of negatives, is tiresome and boring,that they are ruining many posters enjoyment of the forum..

@Bluetintedspecs  points awhile back unfortunately  are coming to fruitation!!!!

Edited 3 October 2018 by fuchsntf

[CosbehFox]

17 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Welsh...logic ???

 

No matter how it ran, He's still here,really water under the bridge.

More likely,they the source were well off Target. 

This grinding out of negatives, is tiresome and boring,that they are ruining many posters enjoyment of the forum..

@Bluetintedspecs  points awhile back unfortunately  are coming to fruitation!!!!

I’ve constantly backed Puel so I haven’t got a scooby what you are banging on about here. I’m just acknowledging that Storey is right to stay there was serious pressure on Puel

[Finnegan]

The only objection I have to the article is that we're not Kaiserslauten, Forest, Alkmaar or Verona. 

 

I don't mean that in some head in the sand, delusions of grandeur sense but more that 2018 is a much different world to 1997 and that we're owned by a man whose personal net worth is estimated to exceed Sheikh Mansour's, is about twice Peter Lim's, four times Farhad Moshiri's, twice John Henry's and about on par with Joe Lewis'. 

 

Owners who have clearly stated lofty ambitions, invested heavily in facilities and infrastructure, heavily in playing staff and whom aren't going to experience one outing in the champions league and then just settle calmly in to mid table obscurity forever. 

 

Clearly they want to grow the club patiently, organically and sustainably and don't want to wrecklessly splurge but I think if people expect them to accept second rate for eternity they're going to be surprised. 

 

I'm not particularly bothered or offended by the press treating us as a little tinpot club that got lucky in a fairytale and I'm not for one moment suggesting we "should" be top four but it's relevant to consider when discussing the longevity of any manager here that I'm quietly confident it's the target for our board, realistic or not. 

 

Football loves the term "stepping stone", it's usually a player or a manager using a club as a stepping stone to greater opportunity. I would not be surprised if Vichai considered Puel a stepping stone to bigger things for the club as opposed to a longer term leader. 

 

 

Edited 3 October 2018 by Finnegan

[Jacnah]

14 hours ago, shade said:

don’t agree that he was sold as a mid season firefighter and don’t agree that that’s how he is seen.

100% agree. That having been said, the primary point the article makes is, iMHO, very accurate. Its not really about the playing staff etc, but more about the inevitability of not being able to hit the same highs following something quite incredible and how we as fans feel and react to that during the post high 'apparent' low

[urban.spaceman]

"Puel is a manager who builds the house rather than hosts the parties."

 

More like:

”The Thais inherited a run down house, and gave Pearson a modest budget to build a shed.

Pearson eventually built a huge shed that won Shed of the Year but had to be fired after an unfortunate racist sex orgy involving his son. 

Ranieri then came along with the job of maintaining Andy slowly upgrading the shed but accidentally ended up holding the biggest rave this town has ever seen. The kind that the whole city turn out for, and one that attracted the attention of the world. 

The rave then comes to an end as accidental fires break out in the shed which then spreads to the downstairs of the house. Ranieri sadly had to go. 

And along came Shakespeare to put the fires out and restart the party. But eventually the fire restarts slowly in the corner of the house and Shakespeare is also gone.

The Thais bring in Claude Puel to put the most visible fires out AND to start slowly rebuilding the house. 

The memories of the epic rave endure and glimpses of it are still there, as well as one or two legendary ravers who just won’t leave. 

But Claude has started to slowly rebuild the house anyway, securing the foundations regardless despite having to sell the flashy car in the front drive that would only work if it wanted to and preferred the garage in the posh area round the corner.

Behind the scenes The Thais are strengthening the foundations - making them some of the best in Europe - while still allowing Claude the time and space to figure out which cladding works best.

Debate will rage over whether the house is nice enough; but it’s still one of the “best of the rest” in the neighbourhood and nobody will ever forget that rave.“

[Ted Maul]

I'm pretty content with where we are- competing to be 'best of the rest' despite going through an obvious transition period with the youngest side in the league. We're only going to improve in time.

 

There's something comforting about having a 'builder' in charge- far less chance of everything going tits-up in a hurry compared with if we had someone in charge who was focusing on short-term results.

[ealingfox]

You can tell he's a forest fan because I don't think a fan of any other club would have been able to crowbar a mention of forest into the article.

 

Their current squad and management are weighed down by stuff that happened before any of their players were even born?  if you say so pal.

 

I'll wager at least one of their signings this summer gone had never heard of forest until their agent told them about the offer from them.