Emiliano Sala Missing.

[Carl the Llama]

2 hours ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

You are ignorant of the facts like we all are. FWIW,  I have no 'patriotic duty' or indeed loyalty to Cardiff either so don't insult my intelligence. The facts are far more complicated than you have made out in your first post in which you said that Cardiff were being "shitty" - I think was the term used - and said wrongly they were responsible for the flight. They were not as everyone agrees. 

The issue is far more complicated than you make out. I very much hope and trust that Nantes do not lose out financially. Ditto Cardiff. The sad thing is the loss of two people's lives.

But it is nowadays unfortunate that this is likely more than a simple contract between clubs but rather agents are involved. Moreover in this case, the agents have said they were responsible for making the arrangements for the flight, which might complicate. The fact that there is no sentiment in business works both ways. Nantes might insist that the payment should be made ASAP (though I think the timing was crass) but equally Cardiff need to be cautious business wise in light of the very unusual and sad circumstances that they cover all angles correctly at this juncture. I hope this tragic set of events work out for all. It is far more complex than the simple black and and white you portray and throwing in erroneous detail does not help. 

You're yet to explain how Nantes are wrong to ask for what they are due. I have no doubt there are awkward, niggly bits vis a vis agents, however those will be separate clauses to the one stating that Nantes FC will be paid £xxxx.xx on dd/mm/yy.  The agent stuff can be dealt with on the side in the meantime. If you intend to pay in full why delay at all? It makes perfect sense that the high ups at Nantes a bit uneasy with Cardiff's behaviour.

[walkerleeds]

Obviously an excruciatingly tragic incident, but I can't really understand why it'd affect the Cardiff players really. Surely only a handful of staff would have met him? 

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

47 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

You're yet to explain how Nantes are wrong to ask for what they are due. I have no doubt there are awkward, niggly bits vis a vis agents, however those will be separate clauses to the one stating that Nantes FC will be paid £xxxx.xx on dd/mm/yy.  The agent stuff can be dealt with on the side in the meantime. If you intend to pay in full why delay at all? It makes perfect sense that the high ups at Nantes a bit uneasy with Cardiff's behaviour.

Did I say Nantes were wrong to expect the fee? No. I didn't whatsoever. I said the timing and the public nature of their request was insensitive and crass bearing in mind the wreckage and body were still at the bottom of the sea and a recovery operation was in place.

 

But what I DID say and you neglect, I said I hope and trust that neither side loses out financially. So I hope and want that Nantes get the fee and Cardiff somehow offset it, which is the best outcome financially for both. The latter will undoubtedly depend on insurances or other contingencies in place and will undoubtedly need to follow the investigation into the causes and potential liabilities I suspect. Like youand others, I would/will be furious if Cardiff play silly buggers but all the indications are they are not doing that but simply are being quite rightly circumspect in view of the complexity at this time. This I suspect is uncharted territory. 

 

You indicate you know the terms of the contract. I certainly don't and quite frankly you don't either which is why I criticised your original post along with the incorrect information in it concerning who was responsible for the flight. The real losers here however are the families and friends. Nothing will recover their tragic losses. End of debate from me. Cheers. 

Edited 8 February 2019 by Cadno'r Cymoedd

[Jattdogg]

8 hours ago, walkerleeds said:

Obviously an excruciatingly tragic incident, but I can't really understand why it'd affect the Cardiff players really. Surely only a handful of staff would have met him? 

It probably  doesnt to be honest but still one of those "it could have been any of us" situations so i fan understand their feelings. I think nantes fans and players will feel the loss much more deeply outside of family and friends.

[Carl the Llama]

23 hours ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

Did I say Nantes were wrong to expect the fee? No. I didn't whatsoever. I said the timing and the public nature of their request was insensitive and crass bearing in mind the wreckage and body were still at the bottom of the sea and a recovery operation was in place.

 

But what I DID say and you neglect, I said I hope and trust that neither side loses out financially. So I hope and want that Nantes get the fee and Cardiff somehow offset it, which is the best outcome financially for both. The latter will undoubtedly depend on insurances or other contingencies in place and will undoubtedly need to follow the investigation into the causes and potential liabilities I suspect. Like youand others, I would/will be furious if Cardiff play silly buggers but all the indications are they are not doing that but simply are being quite rightly circumspect in view of the complexity at this time. This I suspect is uncharted territory. 

 

You indicate you know the terms of the contract. I certainly don't and quite frankly you don't either which is why I criticised your original post along with the incorrect information in it concerning who was responsible for the flight. The real losers here however are the families and friends. Nothing will recover their tragic losses. End of debate from me. Cheers. 

I don't know why you keep bringing emotive reasoning into this. It's. A. Separate. Issue. To. The. Plane. Tragedy.

 

Glad we can end it there at least, this has been silly and repetitive.

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

4 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

I don't know why you keep bringing emotive reasoning into this. It's. A. Separate. Issue. To. The. Plane. Tragedy.

 

Glad we can end it there at least, this has been silly and repetitive.

Yes. From. You. I. Am. On. About. Business. Too. We. Disagree. END. 

Edited 9 February 2019 by Cadno'r Cymoedd

[tylesta]

Southampton fan doing plane gestures to Cardiff fans today hope he gets banned for life

Edited 9 February 2019 by tylesta

[Dave Fishwick]

whilst they are a dickhead for doing it I couldn't believe when I read that they had been nicked for doing it

[urban.spaceman]

On 08/02/2019 at 15:49, walkerleeds said:

Obviously an excruciatingly tragic incident, but I can't really understand why it'd affect the Cardiff players really. Surely only a handful of staff would have met him? 

Fair point. They’d probably only met him a couple of times. 

[Jattdogg]

50 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Fair point. They’d probably only met him a couple of times. 

Ya i mean no connection to him whatsoever lets be honest. Nantes would be more affected. Its just more of a tragic situation regardless of who he plays for (or the pilot who should not be forgotten about in all of this).

[ROB-THE-BLUE]

I can't believe some absolute c##t has leaked a photo from the autopsy 

[SystonFox]

12 hours ago, ROB-THE-BLUE said:

I can't believe some absolute c##t has leaked a photo from the autopsy 

The photo I seen isn’t real. There’s no way it’s real

[ROB-THE-BLUE]

37 minutes ago, SystonFox said:

The photo I seen isn’t real. There’s no way it’s real

I hope not. 

[AjcW]

Prelim report has just been released. This line is odd considering the recording of Sala that was released saying he was scared of the plane/never seen anything like it etc...

 

The pilot of N264DB flew the aircraft and a passenger from Cardiff Airport to Nantes Airport on 19 January 2019 with a return flight scheduled for 21 January 2019

 

That states that he had flown on it once already 

 

 

The rest of the report goes on to suggest a constant battle with the weather that it appears the pilot ultimately lost....

 

Quote

After departure from Nantes, N264DB climbed progressively to 5,500 ft and its average ground speed was about 170 kt, equivalent to an estimated airspeed of 169 kt TAS based on a calculated wind from 250° at 25 kt. When the aircraft was about 20 nm south of Jersey, the pilot was transferred to the Jersey Control frequency. On initial contact with Jersey ATC, the aircraft was cleared to enter controlled airspace and maintain FL5511, following which the pilot was asked to advise ATC if at any time he would not be able to “maintain vmc”; this was to enable ATC coordination with other aircraft in the area should it be necessary for N264DB to descend or climb. At 1958 hrs, the controller asked the pilot to check if the aircraft’s altimeter pressure setting was correctly set to 1013 hPa, because the information on the radar indicated FL53. The pilot acknowledged Footnote 8 Mode A refers to the four-digit ‘squawk’ code set on the transponder, and Mode C refers to the aircraft’s pressure altitude which is transmitted in 100 ft increments. Secondary radar typically provides greater accuracy than primary radar. 9 Cloud account refers to storage of data which is hosted remotely and made available to a user over a network (typically the Internet). 10 Transmitted Mode C values are based on a standard pressure setting (see next footnote). This report has adjusted those values to reflect the local atmospheric pressure (QNH) so that they indicate altitude ie the vertical distance above mean sea level. 11 Flight Levels (FL) are referenced to the International Standard Atmosphere (ISA) setting of 1013 hPa. FL55 is equivalent to 5,500 ft based on the standard pressure setting. 11 AAIB Special Bulletin: S1/2019 N264DB EW/C2019/01/03 © Crown copyright 2019 and, shortly afterwards, the aircraft climbed to FL55; the aircraft was about 11 nm south-west of Jersey. At 2002:10 hrs, N264DB was about 11 nm west of Jersey and 13 nm south of Guernsey when the pilot requested clearance to descend to “maintain vmc” (Figure 3). The aircraft was cleared to FL50, with the instruction to advise ATC if a further descent was required. Shortly afterwards, the aircraft began to descend whilst also making a right turn followed by a left turn. This positioned the aircraft overhead Guernsey, about 1.5 nm parallel to the planned track. The controller then inquired if N264DB required a further descent, to which the pilot responded: “negative, just avoided a patch there, but back on heading five thousand feet”. At 2012 hrs, N264DB was about 11 nm north of Guernsey when the pilot requested a further descent to maintain VMC. The aircraft was cleared to descend at the pilot’s discretion, and the pilot was given the Jersey QNH, which was 1017 hPa. The pilot acknowledged, and this was the last radio communication received from N264DB. N264DB started to descend gradually and turned onto a track of about 060°T (Figure 10). Approximately 30 seconds later the aircraft turned left onto about 305°T. During this sequence of turns the aircraft descended from about 4,800 ft to 4,300 ft, climbed to about 5,000 ft, and then descended again to about 3,900 ft. The aircraft then proceeded to climb to about 4,200 ft on a track that was nearly parallel with the planned course of 343°T. Its average groundspeed was about 175 kt. Figure 10 Radar track of final section of flight (created from a combination of data from Jersey (Les Platons) and Guernsey radars) 12 AAIB Special Bulletin: S1/2019 N264DB EW/C2019/01/03 © Crown copyright 2019 At about 2015:30 hrs, N264DB started to make a gradual left turn, which was followed at about 2016:10 hrs by a right turn of approximately 180°. During this turn, data from two independent radars (Guernsey and Jersey12) showed the aircraft descend to an altitude of about 1,600 ft at an average rate of approximately 7,000 ft/min. A few seconds later (at 2016:34 hrs) the final secondary radar return was recorded, which indicated that the aircraft may have climbed rapidly to about 2,300 ft. Two more primary radar returns were recorded, timed at 2016:38 hrs and 2016:50 hrs respectively, but it is not yet known whether they represent valid returns from the aircraft.

 

 

 

 

Edited 25 February 2019 by AjcW

[Wymsey]

The investigation findings is starting to seem very unbelievable, really..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47417434

 

Sounds as if the flight had been 'rushed' to get Mr. Sala back to Cardiff as soon as possible, at all costs.

[spacemunky]

5 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

The investigation findings is starting to seem very unbelievable, really..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47417434

 

Sounds as if the flight had been 'rushed' to get Mr. Sala back to Cardiff as soon as possible, at all costs.

So many of the great aviation disasters could have been prevented, but due to human impatience, lives were lost. 

 

Sala had a sense that something wasn't right, but he like everyone would have presumed that he was in good hands. 

 

I understand the families involved want some sort of resolution, but sadly it won't bring Emilio or the pilot back.

[KingsX]

 

Cardiff City will tell Fifa the deal they struck to buy Emiliano Sala became “null and void” after he died when the club responds to a complaint over their refusal to pay Nantes his £15 million transfer fee.

 

The Daily Telegraph can reveal details of the case Cardiff plan to submit to football’s world governing body to explain their withholding of the first instalment of that fee amid a row over who owned Sala when he was tragically killed in a plane crash two months ago.

 

Their response, which they were given until next Wednesday to provide, will include the refusal of the Premier League to allow the striker to play in the competition over what can now be disclosed was a signing-on fee that was non-compliant with its rules.

 

It will also include what Cardiff will argue is the non-fulfilment of legally-binding clauses in the transfer agreement they struck with Nantes for the player.

 

As revealed by this newspaper last month, Sala signed a contract with Cardiff that was rejected by the Premier League only for him to be killed before a revised one could be signed.

 

It can now be disclosed it was rejected because the club had front-loaded his signing-on fee in contravention of rules stipulating such money must be paid in equal instalments over the duration of a player’s contract.

 

Sala would have had to sign a revised deal to play in the Premier League and The Telegraph can reveal there is a dispute about whether he had agreed to do so before he died.

 

Cardiff also plan to argue that a clause in the transfer agreement with Nantes – which they say the French club had even proposed – was not fulfilled.

 

A source close to the Premier League side told The Telegraph the agreement stipulated that the Football Association of Wales and France’s Ligue de Football Professionnel (LFP) had to confirm to both clubs that Sala “has been registered as a Cardiff City FC player and that the player’s International Transfer Certificate has been released”.

 

The source said this had not happened before Sala died on January 21, despite another clause stating both parties had to make “reasonable endeavours” to ensure all conditions in the agreement were met by the following day.

 

“The transfer agreement between Cardiff and Nantes was subject to several conditions,” the source said. “If any were not satisfied, the contract would be deemed null and void, with no payment due.”

 

The source added: “Nantes proposed that clause. They asked for the strict notification requirements.

 

“The transfer deadline was just over a week after that. So if the transfer didn’t complete on the 22nd of January, Nantes had time to find an alternative buyer for the player.

 

“Cardiff agreed to the condition for much the same reason, because it allowed them another week to find an alternative striker.”

 

Cardiff also had nothing to do with the flight on which Sala was killed and had even offered him an alternative itinerary.

 

Nantes plan to dispute Cardiff’s case, with a spokesman saying: “FC Nantes has completed all the required paperwork to complete the Emiliano Sala transfer. Thus, Fifa registered the International Transfer Certificate on 21th January 2019 at 5.30pm. Nantes is fully compliant with Fifa rules.

 

“As for Emiliano Sala's registration in the Premier League, FC Nantes has no information about it. And if it could be a problem for Cardiff, it is not a problem for Nantes.”

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/premier-league/exclusive-cardiff-city-plan-to-tell-fifa-deal-struck-to-buy-emiliano-sala-became-null-and-void-after-he-died/ar-BBVawF2

 

[Guest MattP]

"Sala, forever a blue bird, always in our hearts"

 

Few weeks later....

 

"He's not our player at all cancelled the transfer when he died"

[surrifox]

Had a feeling at the time there was a lot more to come out about this 

[Jattdogg]

Is this like a silva situ. Transfer went through but not registered with PL?

 

If  not this looks ugly for cardiff no doubt. I mean they look petty (given the tragic ending) but that shouldnt be an issue if they have a legitimate reason. Problem is public opinion will make them feel bad etc.

Edited 25 March 2019 by Jattdogg

[Dan LCFC]

It's brutal but Cardiff should pay it.

 

Reckon this will be put off to see if they stay up or not.

[tylesta]

surely something was in place as the plane was taking cardiff for training the next day!! surely he wouldnt train incase of injury if something was not in place

[tylesta]

knowing our football club/owners the fee would of been paid so all this aimt all over the papers for months

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

We still don't know all the details as I posted earlier in the year in view of all the complications. But I have to say that Cardiff don't now seem to be covering themselves in glory if they are going on technicalities over the transfer itself.  I was never blindly defending them despite some thinking I was. The circumstances over the flight still remain unresolved and that might be another aspect with implications. But the transfer issue itself seems like stepping on dangerous ground even if it is legally sound.  

[CosbehFox]

That someone clearly at Cardiff City FC keeps leaking the details of this story speaks volumes in terms of how ethical all this technicality details is.