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[LiberalFox]

Guess that makes me an "ultra liberal". 

[Izzy]

23 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

He wouldn't have done it to a man.

 

'Men' who lay their hands on women don't have the guts to do it when there's a chance they'll get some back.

I think he would have done exactly the same if it was a man. It happened so quickly that I’d imagine the gender of the protester was the last thing on his mind.

 

14 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

" That is why we should all be proud that the UK remains committed to helping women all over the world to feel safe and protected in the work they do, so that they can speak freely and be part of the change we all want. I speak for not just the Foreign and Commonwealth Office but, I hope, everyone in Parliament when I say that we want a world in which all people are treated with fairness and dignity, and in which those fighting to improve human rights can do so without fear of discrimination, violence or retaliation..."

 

Mark Fields, May 9th

It wasn’t violence though was it. The protester is smirking as she’s led away. If she wants to protest with fairness and dignity then don’t go around gatecrashing other people’s events.

[Nalis]

So as suspected, the Northern Powerhouse 'project' was mere lip service.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-48664613

 

The north/south divide is only going to get worse with Boris in charge.

[David Guiza]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I think he would have done exactly the same if it was a man. It happened so quickly that I’d imagine the gender of the protester was the last thing on his mind.

 

It wasn’t violence though was it. The protester is smirking as she’s led away. If she wants to protest with fairness and dignity then don’t go around gatecrashing other people’s events.

I'm sorry, but how is it not violence? How is pushing someone against a wall, grabbing them around the neck (I'm not saying throttling or anything like that) and shoving them out not violent? Just because he hasn't choke slammed her to the ground and carried out the room over his shoulder doesn't mean it's not violence. He's not a bouncer at the local s*ithole pub throwing out some rowdy punter, he's a member of parliament. 

 

As for the protesting with fairness and dignity, that's much easier said than done when it comes to achieving a political aim and you must know that. The fact of the matter is that for protests to gain any real momentum, coverage and attention it needs to be in the public eye and or aimed at the 'oppressors', holding a placard and tying yourself to a tree in the middle of nowhere isn't going to do that. This protest has already got an infinite amount more coverage than the husband of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratclfife has, who is hunger strike against what has happened to his wife.  

 

[ealingfox]

51 minutes ago, MattP said:

Easy to blame him in hindsight but some of these protestors are mentally unstable and capable of dangerous things.

 

Can't blame politicians at all for reacting like that in the current climate. 

 

Don't see a problem with what he has done there at all. 

 

If it had been a Labour MP you'd be frothing all over this thread and you know you would.

 

Look, I am firmly in the 'it's not that bad' camp but to say he did nothing wrong is clearly not the case.

 

All he needed to do to prevent her passing is stand up and maybe stick an arm out, but instead he's shoved her and grabbed her by the neck. It's clearly excessive and it would appear he knows it. I don't think he should be sacked or expelled from the party or anything but he certainly should be reprimanded and undertake some sort of training.

 

I will be interested to discover how they managed to get in. He's said there was no security at the event but I can't imagine that is true as Mansion House is guarded 24 hours a day. Either it was a fairly clever scheme or someone dropped the ball.

 

[Buce]

19 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I think he would have done exactly the same if it was a man. It happened so quickly that I’d imagine the gender of the protester was the last thing on his mind.

 

It wasn’t violence though was it. The protester is smirking as she’s led away. If she wants to protest with fairness and dignity then don’t go around gatecrashing other people’s events.

 

If somebody grabbed your missus by the neck and roughly pushed her against a wall, you wouldn't consider it violent?

 

Behave.

[StanSP]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

Can't see what Mark Field did wrong myself.

 

Regardless of if she's a woman or not, I assume she wasn't invited and was there to cause trouble. She was walking at pace and he obviously clocked her protesters 'sash' she was wearing and stopped her in her tracks.

 

All instinctive and I'm sure he meant her no physical harm but just wanted her out.

 

If someone gatecrashed an event any of us were attending, I'm sure we wouldn't stand for it either.

 

 

Can't see what he did wrong?! 

 

Wow. 

 

He's grabbed her by the neck ffs. There's a way to remove someone from an event and by starting off with a push to a wall and grabbing by the neck isn't it. Whether it's a man or a woman! 

 

If someone gatecrashed an event, yeah we wouldn't stand for it but do we not ask them to leave first a few times? Do we not try and usher them out? We don't go straight for the overly physical act of what Field did. 

 

'I'm sure he meant her no physical harm'. Yeah maybe, but grabbing someone by the neck kind of negates that intention. 

[Wymsey]

These protesters will do anything to accuse others of wrongdoing, yet they'll deny they've done anything wrong themselves.

 

In fact, these 'protests' of theirs could actually backfire for them in terms of getting others to further ignore what they're trying to get across to others..

 

It's quite embarrassing on their behalf, perhaps even stupid.

Edited 21 June 2019 by Wymeswold fox

[Guest MattP]

36 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

I do enjoy how free speech and protest only applies to certain people at specific times and on an agreed basis. I thought it was the left that were supposedly quashing this?

As far as I'm aware nobody on the right has ever said you can protest wherever you want, you can't.

In public everyone is entitled to do that, peacefully - you are not entitled to enter private events where you are not invited to do this and if you do you should be removed, same for this woman, same for the pro-Brexit protestors who gatecrashed the CBI conference. If you put yourself into that position you can expect to be removed with force.
 

14 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

If it had been a Labour MP you'd be frothing all over this thread and you know you would.

 

I will be interested to discover how they managed to get in. He's said there was no security at the event but I can't imagine that is true as Mansion House is guarded 24 hours a day. Either it was a fairly clever scheme or someone dropped the ball.

Complete nonsense. I stuck up for John Prescott when he retaliated and Corbyn would have been well within his rights to give a slap to the bloke who egged him the other week.

If someone was uninvited to a Labour event and tried to approach a high profile MP they should be removed from the room as quickly as possible and that involves a bit of force so be it.

[Grebfromgrebland]

Re Mark Field. If it was a burly bloke who entered the room he would have stayed firmly in his seat.

[David Guiza]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

As far as I'm aware nobody on the right has ever said you can protest wherever you want, you can't.

In public everyone is entitled to do that, peacefully - you are not entitled to enter private events where you are not invited to do this and if you do you should be removed, same for this woman, same for the pro-Brexit protestors who gatecrashed the CBI conference. If you put yourself into that position you can expect to be removed with force.

I would love to live in a world where peaceful protest gets action, but that sadly seems to be fading; as I said above, a man who is on hunger strike for his wife has got virtually no media attention in comparison to this. In a world of glancing at headlines and not reading the full article this seems to be one of the few ways of getting any attention, rightly or wrongly. It's he who shouts loudest gets listened to and their message has now been branded across nationwide media far more than it would have done if they were stood outside the building chanting to passers by. Of course attending an even uninvited in itself is not 'peaceful' but it's not exactly threatening or malicious either.  

 

4 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

1. These protesters will do anything to accuse others of wrongdoing, yet they'll deny they've done anything wrong themselves.

 

2. In fact, these 'protests' of theirs could actually backfire for them in terms of getting others to further ignore what they're trying to get across to others..

 

3. It's quite embarrassing on their behalf, perhais evern stupid.

1. I'm pretty certain that they're aware of what they're doing and aware that it's 'wrong'. I think it's very naive to think otherwise. Greenpeace attracts some loons, but they have done some incredible work over a period of decades and wouldn't have achieved almost any of it without crossing the line. 

 

2. People will already have made their minds up on said protesters as either being lefty media whores or political protesters, I don't think any or many will change their opinions based on this. If they do then I think as many would support the attacked woman than than the MP and his party.

 

3. Jumping in front of a racehorse and standing in front of a tank was pretty stupid too, and no I am not saying that her actions deserve equal merit but sometime protests have to be 'stupid'.   

[ealingfox]

6 minutes ago, MattP said:

As far as I'm aware nobody on the right has ever said you can protest wherever you want, you can't.

In public everyone is entitled to do that, peacefully - you are not entitled to enter private events where you are not invited to do this and if you do you should be removed, same for this woman, same for the pro-Brexit protestors who gatecrashed the CBI conference. If you put yourself into that position you can expect to be removed with force.
 

Complete nonsense. I stuck up for John Prescott when he retaliated and Corbyn would have been well within his rights to give a slap to the bloke who egged him the other week.

If someone was uninvited to a Labour event and tried to approach a high profile MP they should be removed from the room as quickly as possible and that involves a bit of force so be it.

 

In both cases that at least was or would have been retaliation. This woman had not attacked him or done anything of the sort and his reaction was clearly excessive.

[Alf Bentley]

Implications that the protester might have been violent or a crazed terrorist are partisan distractions. Field knew she was a peaceful, if disruptive protester. If not, he'd have reacted differently.

 

If faced with potential violence, you might react in various ways: you might run away; you might grab the intruder's arms to prevent violence; you might try to throw them to the ground to immobilise them; you'd almost certainly be shouting to others to help or to get security/police. If you seriously had the slightest thought that an intruder might be a violent threat, you wouldn't grab them, leave their arms free and frogmarch them out of a room by the neck. 

 

Izzy and Davie make a more valid point in asking whether women should be treated differently. I'd say not necessarily. The response should be proportionate to the action/threat, whether it's a woman or a man. If a woman burst in apparently intent on violence, it would be quite reasonable to grab her, immobilise her, pin her arms or whatever. Field's response would have been wrong if it had been a man, too, because it was disproportionate. Once he blocked her, the woman didn't try to force her way through, struggle or resist in any way, never mind suggesting that she would be violent. It looks particularly bad because she's a woman, but would've been just as disproportionate on a non-resisting man. Fair enough that she should be ordered to leave, removed if necessary, charged with a public order offence, if appropriate.....but grabbed by neck and frogmarched out, arms free....well out of order.

 

I hope serious questions are also asked of whoever was responsible for security. It was clearly peaceful, if disruptive protesters who got in, but what if it had been someone with violent intent - at a major event addressed by the Chancellor?

 

 

[Izzy]

Some on here clearly don’t understand what happens to us when we go into fight or flight mode and our primal instincts kick in. 

 

Of course we then regret it afterwards but in the moment we’re not thinking rationally. 

 

None of us know in advance how we’d react in such circumstances so maybe stop judging Field for acting on his instincts and instead remember that none of this would have happened if these protesters weren’t there in the first place (which they shouldn’t have been)

[The Fox Covert]

On 15/06/2019 at 14:19, Izzy said:

Sadly, Corbyn is the worst leader of the Labour Party since George Lansbury in the 1930s,

 

Nope. Michael Foot was highly intelligent, articulate, inspiring and had a burning desire to root out injustice.

He was unfortunate enough to be leader of the Labour Party in the early 1980s when these things were distinctly out of fashion.

I would credit him with holding the Labour Party together at a time when it could easily have fractured into competing factions, never to reach power again.

 

I mentioned Lansbury because like Corbyn he was the archetypal backbencher and on-the-streets demonstrator, unexpectedly projected into a role he probably never even dreamed he would get in a million years.

And like Corbyn he was completely ineffective against a reactionary National (Conservative) government, led by Neville Chamberlain, whose penny-pinching policies plunged millions into abject and miserable grinding poverty. And whose neglect of the armed forces almost led this country to disaster and national humiliation in 1940.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

What's Mark Field playing at?! 

 

 

 

Fair play. Didnt pussyfoot around and dealt with the situation

 

Or on the other hand #feminisim #evil rich

#condemn whatever i can whenever i want

[Izzy]

21 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

This woman had not attacked him or done anything of the sort and his reaction was clearly excessive.

Yet Field clearly sensed she was a threat in that moment. 

Maybe he thought she was carrying something dangerous - who knows.

We all respond to perceived threat differently.

[Alf Bentley]

4 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Some on here clearly don’t understand what happens to us when we go into fight or flight mode and our primal instincts kick in. 

 

Of course we then regret it afterwards but in the moment we’re not thinking rationally. 

 

None of us know in advance how we’d react in such circumstances so maybe stop judging Field for acting on his instincts and instead remember that none of this would have happened if these protesters weren’t there in the first place (which they shouldn’t have been)

 

At a stretch, I could accept that explanation for him initially grabbing her arm - but I wouldn't see anything wrong with that, anyway.

 

But "fight or flight" and "primal instincts" when he took hold of the neck of someone who wasn't resisting or struggling, then calmly marched her out of the room with her arms free?! 

 

[Facecloth]

20 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Yet Field clearly sensed she was a threat in that moment. 

Maybe he thought she was carrying something dangerous - who knows.

We all respond to perceived threat differently.

As Alf said, if he felt that, why did he leave her arms free? What we've learnt from this is if you want to attack Field, don't have a weapon on your neck, because that's what he'll look to immobilse.

 

As you say, we don't know how we'd all react, but I'm damn sure we'd all react by trying to constrain the part of their body they are going to attack us with if we decided to fight. Field's fight mode is pretty shit if he's leaving himself still open to attack. If he goes onto flight mode does he run towards his attacker too?

Edited 21 June 2019 by Facecloth

[fuchsntf]

2 hours ago, Izzy said:

 

2 hours ago, Facecloth said:

He said "good" Izzy.

That's worse than the Chinese water torture..or in the good old days you could ban people from the land..!!

I have had enough nightmares from this

No dance rythme ghoul...Even the garlic around my window and over my bed withered...when only her shadow appeared...Then you hero's...look like

You are going to allow...this Boris Johnson beguile you...a curse over the land .!!!!

..besides that we are doing well at the cricket ..so there is something to salvage.....

.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

Act like a child, get frog marched out like a child

 

There is nothing controversial here, jesus

 

Protestors caused a chaotic situation and when there is chaos anything can happen

 

Dont make fuss if you dont want fuss

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, Foxin_Mad said:

What have the peoples Labour party ever done to get a female or minority leader? The Tories at least had Javid in this competition. Labour have a upper middle class tweed wearing white anti-Semite old grandad with backward outdated hard left socialist views, so stuck in the 1970s its untrue. The leadership race thing has been a joke really,  may as well just install Boris the clown as leader and get on with him not being able to negotiate a new deal with the EU and not be able to get his no deal through parliament, should be a good watch! 

 

The Corbyn Labour party have been around for a good few years now, they seem to be the truly nasty party from what I can tell. 

Hey!?  the other parties are not any better,and there in your comments lies the problem..

Trying to protect a non exsisyen political stance...by blaming the others..!!

They are all wasteland fodder and inept

Incompetent political leaders very few honourable members...that ignored at their peril..good backbenchers...and rode gunshod over their own ground base..

[David Guiza]

Just now, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Act like a child, get frog marched out like a child

 

There is nothing controversial here, jesus

 

Protestors caused a chaotic situation and when there is chaos anything can happen

 

Dont make fuss if you dont want fuss

Act like a child, get shoved into a wall and a hand to your neck before being shoved out the room like a child. Famously rule number 1 in childcare. 

 

I don't think he has an opinion on this. 

 

Yes the video shows utter chaos. I think one woman may even pick up the wrong fork at one point, the heathen. 

 

They did want a fuss and, I imagine, fully expected to be removed from the building. I don't think making a fuss justifies the response. 

[Izzy]

18 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

At a stretch, I could accept that explanation for him initially grabbing her arm - but I wouldn't see anything wrong with that, anyway.

 

But "fight or flight" and "primal instincts" when he took hold of the neck of someone who wasn't resisting or struggling, then calmly marched her out of the room with her arms free?! 

 

All very well analysing the event afterwards and making judgments. 

I’m sure even you Alf have done something in the moment on instinct and then regretted it afterwards.

Its called being human and humans are clumsy and make mistakes.

[Kopfkino]

34 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Some on here clearly don’t understand what happens to us when we go into fight or flight mode and our primal instincts kick in. 

 

Of course we then regret it afterwards but in the moment we’re not thinking rationally. 

 

None of us know in advance how we’d react in such circumstances so maybe stop judging Field for acting on his instincts and instead remember that none of this would have happened if these protesters weren’t there in the first place (which they shouldn’t have been)

 

Quite. The current atmosphere for MPs is hardly ideal and I imagine they are slightly on edge. The man has reacted on instinct and probably isn't trained for such a thing. Undoubtedly a mistake but the handwringing and conjecture from people able to sit at home and analyse it with a rational head is a bit sad.