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[TheUltimateWinner]

I think we’re the winners for sitting through that. God what a shitshow that was.

[Kopfkino]

What an awful format and an awful job by Maitlis. Good of the BBC to confirm that it barely recognises anything outside the South of England. 

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

What an awful format and an awful job by Maitlis. Good of the BBC to confirm that it barely recognises anything outside the South of England. 

The BBC have Andrew Neil, John Humpreys and Andrew Marr available to do this yet because of the obsession with diversity we end up with Emily Maitlis hosting it, pathetic. 

[Dr The Singh]

Just now, MattP said:

The BBC have Andrew Neil, John Humpreys and Andrew Marr available to do this yet because of the obsession with diversity we end up with Emily Maitlis hosting it, pathetic. 

Borat or Keith Lemon would have been better

[Mike Oxlong]

More shit talk than in the Transfer Forum 

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

Regarding "Saving the Planet" and the excess of plastic bags, turns out the vast majority of plastic waste in rivers and on riverbeds can be found in Africa (2 out of 10) and Asia (8 out of 10):

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/

 

I salute people in Europe and North America being conscious about waste, but how about the preachy people over here having a go at China, India, Egypt or Nigeria, for once?

 

 

Africa has a huge problem with this. Nobody recycles anything. Governments that is. Everything just goes in the same bin. Last time I was in Zambia there were posters everywhere telling people not to burn their rubbish! 

[tom27111]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

The BBC have Andrew Neil, John Humpreys and Andrew Marr available to do this yet because of the obsession with diversity we end up with Emily Maitlis hosting it, pathetic. 

 

You'd smash her though 

[urban.spaceman]

.

Edited 19 June 2019 by urban.spaceman

[leicsmac]

11 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

So we need nuance but you've immediately decided to bin the nuance because somehow analysing the events in context and with a nod to actual dynamics of the ME rather than a caricature is the same as declaring Iran a warmongering dictatorship that should be happy to feel the might of America. Of course follows your entirely nuanced view on why it could/might have been. 

I'm certainly not applying any good guy/bad guy dichotomy, in fact my starting position was that Iran done it but the US has obviously been provocative. In fact, in the face of a non-existent strategy towards Iran/the ME from the US, Iran is playing its hand as best it can. If you think I'm guilty of good guy/bad guy then that's you reading it wrong. 

 

I'd also contend that Iran is quite dictatorial.

....is that what has been going on here? As far as I can see all there has been is blaming Iran or blaming the US, outside of your own more measured position, of course - and I'm not quite sure what about my own position here isn't nuanced compared to that.

 

TBH, I'm not sure if I've managed to piss you off given the tone of your post here and the last couple of engagements, but if I have I apologise and what I have posted was certainly not meant to be personal. To be clear, my own position is similar to yours in that the balance of probability is that Iran were responsible but the US is being provocative and responsibility should be made a little more certain before more decisive action is taken. Also add in a little of my usual distaste with anyone on any side of the matter who want to trigger a war for their own personal benefit, and they exist on both sides.

 

I'd certainly agree that Iran is a theocratic dictatorship and the sooner it gets a freer government the better, but "boots on the ground" has never been any guarantee of that - or even close.

 

 

6 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Regarding "Saving the Planet" and the excess of plastic bags, turns out the vast majority of plastic waste in rivers and on riverbeds can be found in Africa (2 out of 10) and Asia (8 out of 10):

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluting-our-oceans-comes-from-just-10-rivers/

 

I salute people in Europe and North America being conscious about waste, but how about the preachy people over here having a go at China, India, Egypt or Nigeria, for once?

 

 

How is it known that they're not?

 

Plastic pollution is a massive problem the world over - guess people just (mistakenly) take it personally when they're told their own country is part of the problem.

[MC Prussian]

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

How is it known that they're not?

 

Plastic pollution is a massive problem the world over - guess people just (mistakenly) take it personally when they're told their own country is part of the problem.

Missing the point entirely.

I acknowledge that we can do better in Europe or North America, but European countries in particular pale in comparison to polluters in Africa or Asia (China and India especially).

As stated in another thread, Germany for instance is responsible for 2% of carbon dioxide emissions, whilst the main culprits such as China or India continue to grow, pollute, with little to no regulations or healthy improvement in sight. Africa and Asia have grown massively in terms of population, and even the UN sees it as the biggest threat to/challenge for the globe today:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/06/world-population-expected-rise-97-billion-2050-190618085808201.html

We're looking at around eleven billion people by the year 2100!

 

We as Europeans are but a drop in the ocean, whilst other, major countries further away are the waterfall. I'd much rather see our hyped up activists engaging where it really matters, along the Mekong River, the Nile, the Niger, the Yangtze, the Indus or Hai He, for example. Protest against the Nigerian, Chinese, Egyptian or Indian government instead of rather pointless exercises over here.

I find their hypocrisy in that regard staggering. They are preaching to the choir in Europe and should rather carry their message to places where it is much more needed.

Edited 19 June 2019 by MC Prussian

[The Guvnor]

9 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

What an awful format and an awful job by Maitlis. Good of the BBC to confirm that it barely recognises anything outside the South of England. 

The truth is these sort of programnes are fcuk all to do with substance and more to do with carnival tv, quite frankly embarrassing and a waste of time.

[Foxin_Mad]

All of them are dreadful. 

 

I thought Boris was absolute crap, showed what a complete and utter buffoon he is.

 

None of them can answer how we are going to leave with no deal on 31st Oct when parliament wont allow it with the current numbers, none of them will admit that they will most likely need a general election to get approval for their deal or no deal on a broad consensus. Labour will block everything that isn't a Labour Corbyn customs deal with pretty much the same WA that May suggested.  

 

Quite frankly if that's the best we have to lead 'Brexit Britain'

 

I would close parliament and lords turn it into a posh hotel and let the Europeans run us. 

Edited 19 June 2019 by Foxin_Mad

[String fellow]

Imo, such programmes are as much about style as substance, and who looks the most prime-ministerial. For example, last night, Rory Stewart started off looking into the wrong camera. Then his tie mysteriously disappeared and his head was down too much when not involved in the discussion, both implying furtiveness. Also, his voice was squeaky and he insisted on finishing every long-winded sentence he'd started. All these factors could cost him the top job, regardless of what his policies are.
 

Edited 19 June 2019 by String fellow

[Alf Bentley]

Truly dismal, that leadership programme:

 

- Format 0/10: Tight semi-circle & short programme encouraged them to shout over one another. Not enough time to scrutinise issues or contributions adequately. Looked weird how they kept pointing down the camera at the public questioners because screens showing them were above the cameras - seriously amateurish programme preparation.

- Maitlis 3/10: I like her on Newsnight & she had some good prepared points, but failed to exercise any control, allowing them to shout over one another - chaotic

 

- Boris 3/10: Evasive, vacillating on policy & semi-uninterested. Seemed to have no grasp of detail on any topic - less than any of the others. But no major gaffes & he's "promising" 31/10 so, in the context, presumably a triumph for him?

- Hunt 6/10: The one who came closest to looking vaguely prime-ministerial (calm, understanding of some issues) but still cheesy at times & no serious answer to the Brexit conundrum....which applied to all of them!

- Gove 4/10: Made the sharpest points against other candidates & would have "won" a longer programme, but no answer to Brexit, the worst for shouting over others & his oily, greasy fake compliments are nauseating

- Javid 5/10: A lot seem to think he did well, but seemed half-asleep bar a few mildly decent comments & his zinger, bouncing the others into a Tory Islamophobia investigation (Warsi's been asking for this for months - must be tearing hair out)

- Stewart 4/10: Very erratic after impressing thus far. No mention of his citizens' assemblies now, just May's deal & no explanation how he'll get it through. Some good points but much ill-expressed waffle. Weird body language - sprawling on the stool, often grinning or dreaming & looking at his shoes or into mid-air as if his mind wasn't on it. Has he been at the opium again?!

 

A clueless programme full of clueless politicians vying to lead a clueless nation (& I'm not pretending Jezza would've been any better if he'd been there).

[davieG]

32 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Truly dismal, that leadership programme:

 

- Format 0/10: Tight semi-circle & short programme encouraged them to shout over one another. Not enough time to scrutinise issues or contributions adequately. Looked weird how they kept pointing down the camera at the public questioners because screens showing them were above the cameras - seriously amateurish programme preparation.

- Maitlis 3/10: I like her on Newsnight & she had some good prepared points, but failed to exercise any control, allowing them to shout over one another - chaotic

 

- Boris 3/10: Evasive, vacillating on policy & semi-uninterested. Seemed to have no grasp of detail on any topic - less than any of the others. But no major gaffes & he's "promising" 31/10 so, in the context, presumably a triumph for him?

- Hunt 6/10: The one who came closest to looking vaguely prime-ministerial (calm, understanding of some issues) but still cheesy at times & no serious answer to the Brexit conundrum....which applied to all of them!

- Gove 4/10: Made the sharpest points against other candidates & would have "won" a longer programme, but no answer to Brexit, the worst for shouting over others & his oily, greasy fake compliments are nauseating

- Javid 5/10: A lot seem to think he did well, but seemed half-asleep bar a few mildly decent comments & his zinger, bouncing the others into a Tory Islamophobia investigation (Warsi's been asking for this for months - must be tearing hair out)

- Stewart 4/10: Very erratic after impressing thus far. No mention of his citizens' assemblies now, just May's deal & no explanation how he'll get it through. Some good points but much ill-expressed waffle. Weird body language - sprawling on the stool, often grinning or dreaming & looking at his shoes or into mid-air as if his mind wasn't on it. Has he been at the opium again?!

 

A clueless programme full of clueless politicians vying to lead a clueless nation (& I'm not pretending Jezza would've been any better if he'd been there).

Makes you wonder where we'd be if the public voted for the PM Presidential style, the mind boggles.

 

One plus from this referendum or is it a minus it shows how bereft we are of statesmen/women like Leaders.

 

 

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

*pretends to be shocked*

[Jon the Hat]

Rory Stewart talking to Gove about joining forces.  I guess he knows he can't be second from here, and prefers Gove to Hunt as the challenger.

[Alf Bentley]

6 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Rory Stewart talking to Gove about joining forces.  I guess he knows he can't be second from here, and prefers Gove to Hunt as the challenger.

 

Makes sense. Quite likely Stewart will go out today, I imagine, after not excelling last night and with Javid likely to pick up a few of Raab's 30 votes (most to Boris?).

 

Gove seems more capable of getting at Boris by pinning him down on detail during hustings for party members. He also presumably has slightly more Brexiteer credibility with a largely Hard Brexit electorate than Hunt or Javid, having part-led the Leave campaign, even if he then became a May loyalist, whereas they both supported Remain but switched after the referendum, didn't they?

 

As a Remain-leaning Soft Leftist seriously concerned about No Deal, he might be my best option (of a bad bunch). He seems smart enough to understand the dangers of No Deal & is already almost committed, in practice, to extending the Brexit deadline. He would also probably introduce a few liberal social/environmental policies, not just slash taxes for the rich/corporations. Also, combined with the impossible political situation, his ugly mug and repulsively oily mock-servile manner should quickly make him unpopular with the public, creating opportunities for the Left.....if only Labour can get rid of that Eurosceptic Stalinist moron from Islington this autumn. 

 

Dream on, Alf, eh? It's going to be the amoral bone-idle blonde narcissistic charlatan, isn't it?

[Bobby Hundreds]

Quite enjoyed Boris playing the Muslim great-grandfather card, must've turned half the Tory membership a lovely colour of puce.

 

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

*pretends to be shocked*

 

 

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand... suspended....

 

From his job as deputy head...

 

 

Of a girls school. 

[The Guvnor]

Let's face it as the old song states. On TV and the radio and in every public bar
The burning question of the day is O'Rafferty's motor car  (Brexit) you could also add Foxestalk, and any other Social media platform. That is (whether you like it or not ) the single issue of which the next Tory Leader has to convince the Tory membership, That's why atm any policy ideas are irrelevant,  Law and order, Education, Public services, NHS funding, Social Care , the Environment, all the Parties will want to and need to address these issues,. As for the candidates Hunt has been nominated by Rudd and spread sheet Phil so that raises a red flag, as he's the reminers man, so he's fcuked, Stewart has no chance with his 'cold Porridge' plan.Gove has previous with knifing Boris,  Interestingly Sajid appears to be the most hardlined about leaving on the 31st, maybe he realises that's his best chance of progressing with Boris to the final 2, 

To be honest as a Brexiteer depressing candidates and I'm not convinced with any of them.

[leicsmac]

7 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Missing the point entirely.

I acknowledge that we can do better in Europe or North America, but European countries in particular pale in comparison to polluters in Africa or Asia (China and India especially).

As stated in another thread, Germany for instance is responsible for 2% of carbon dioxide emissions, whilst the main culprits such as China or India continue to grow, pollute, with little to no regulations or healthy improvement in sight. Africa and Asia have grown massively in terms of population, and even the UN sees it as the biggest threat to/challenge for the globe today:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/06/world-population-expected-rise-97-billion-2050-190618085808201.html

We're looking at around eleven billion people by the year 2100!

 

We as Europeans are but a drop in the ocean, whilst other, major countries further away are the waterfall. I'd much rather see our hyped up activists engaging where it really matters, along the Mekong River, the Nile, the Niger, the Yangtze, the Indus or Hai He, for example. Protest against the Nigerian, Chinese, Egyptian or Indian government instead of rather pointless exercises over here.

I find their hypocrisy in that regard staggering. They are preaching to the choir in Europe and should rather carry their message to places where it is much more needed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your point was that African and Asian countries far outstrip European and North American countries in terms of plastic pollution and that those people who rail against it should probably choose those countries to campaign in, yes?

 

In response, I asked how it might be known that these people are not already doing this, having zero evidence presented for inaction on the part of those campaigners in this area.

 

With respect, unless your point is different from the above I believe my question to be pertinent.

 

NB. I agree that the African and Asian countries have a big problem with plastic pollution (the numbers speak for themselves) but anyone truly interested in fighting the fight against such on a global scale would welcome criticism and action wherever it might be found rather than taking offence from it IMO.

 

 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

15 hours ago, MattP said:

The BBC have Andrew Neil, John Humpreys and Andrew Marr available to do this yet because of the obsession with diversity we end up with Emily Maitlis hosting it, pathetic. 

They’ll call it positive discrimination, and what a ridiculous term that is.

[lifted*fox]

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48691488

 

Glad to see someone is beginning to answer for this but quite frankly I'll be amazed if anyone sees a day in court, much less in jail. There's no way Putin's ego will allow that.