Tielemans

[chapero82]

43 minutes ago, SO1 said:

"his achilles heel is definitely the transfer market."    How do you know this?

Because his transfers in the past have been dreadful  

[Guest SO1]

Just now, chapero82 said:

Because his transfers in the past have been dreadful  

You'll have to do better than that. Proof. C'mon. I'm loaded for bear.

[Wolfox]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

I'd add an experienced CB - similar to the Evans transfer - to that list as I can see Maguire going, not that that's necessarily a bad thing... We've got good young options but if Maguire goes and Evans was injured our back line would all be u23 and that could be an issue.

 

CM: Tielemans

CM: (McGregor?) 

ST: (Austin or Adams?)

W/AM: Mendez 

FB: Milner (Free) 

CB: (?)

 

I'd be pretty happy with that. With Benkovic coming back in as well we'll have enough options to try the 3atb again, and there'd be enough good quality additions that we can strip away some of those who don't quite cut it or are surplus. With money incoming from Maguire and a couple others net spend would be relatively low, and money 'saved' from expiring contracts would help with that.

No need for Mendez 

 

 

[TheUltimateWinner]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

He's looked very good so far but Monaco are seriously taking the piss asking for 40 million quid on a player they have loaned out.

"We don't rate him nor want him in our squad, but for 40m he's yours"  

[chapero82]

18 minutes ago, SO1 said:

You'll have to do better than that. Proof. C'mon. I'm loaded for bear.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/brendan-rodgers/spielertransfers/trainer/1366

[Rain King]

11 minutes ago, chapero82 said:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/brendan-rodgers/spielertransfers/trainer/1366

What I take away from that is that he signed both Matt Mills & Jonny Hayes

[Crispin LA]

Have we got an option to buy him after the loan finishes? 

[Ashley]

9 minutes ago, Crispin LA said:

Have we got an option to buy him after the loan finishes? 

No

[weller54]

55 minutes ago, TheUltimateWinner said:

"We don't rate him nor want him in our squad, but for 40m he's yours"  

What's Silva worth as a part exchange though? 

25m?

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, SO1 said:

"his achilles heel is definitely the transfer market."    How do you know this?

 

For a start, the majority of Celtic and Liverpool fans will tell you the same anecdotally, including the Celtic fan who joined up a week ago in peace. 

 

He essentially said that Rodgers was awful signing finished product, meaning his eye for a young player was okay but the rest of his business was shabby. 

 

But then go back and actually look at his transfer business at Liverpool. There's three brilliant stand out signings Firmino, Gomez, Coutinho. Can't fault that. 

 

Unfortunately, it came at the cost of him absolutely filling the club up with sheer rubbish that Klopp has spent years trying to shed and plenty are still stuck there on the wage bill. Exactly like us with our Bennys and Slimanis and Silvas.

 

Look at the link above from transfermarkt or go to Wikipedia and look at Liverpool's seasons under Rodgers. 

 

He brought in Moreno (16m), Sahko (17m), Lovren (23m), Benteke (42m!), Markovic (22m), Balotelli (18m), Borini (12m), Origi (11m), Aspas (10m), Luis Alberto (7m), Tiago Ilori (7m), Ings (7m), Lambert (5m.) 

 

That is an absolutely eye watering amount of completely awful transfers, almost all of whom a reasonable layperson could have concluded weren't good enough for a top four pushing Liverpool. 

 

Imagine what wages they were all on. In terms of quantity that's disgusting, in quality it's disgusting, in terms of combined fees it was in the ballpark of £200m in abject dross. And that's before the Neymar-Coutinho effect hit the transfer market, you're probably talking about a 60-80% bump if not more if you were to try and sign those now. 

 

Now what is absolutely remarkable is that Rodgers did that business and still almost won the league, let's be clear I think he's a brilliant coach and I am hopeful he'll do a very good job here. 

 

But he's absolutely not a genius in the transfer market and he'd be much better as a dedicated Head Coach in a European model with a separate director of football in charge of recruitment. 

 

Sadly for us, our own recruitment is mixed at absolute best and as far as I've heard Rodgers insists on using his own people and making his own judgment a la an old school British manager. 

 

I'm cautiously optimistic about our future but I am terrified of the summer transfer window. 

[Guest MattP]

22 minutes ago, weller54 said:

What's Silva worth as a part exchange though? 

25m?

You think Silva's value has gone up since we signed him?

[volpeazzurro]

21 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

For a start, the majority of Celtic and Liverpool fans will tell you the same anecdotally, including the Celtic fan who joined up a week ago in peace. 

 

He essentially said that Rodgers was awful signing finished product, meaning his eye for a young player was okay but the rest of his business was shabby. 

 

But then go back and actually look at his transfer business at Liverpool. There's three brilliant stand out signings Firmino, Gomez, Coutinho. Can't fault that. 

 

Unfortunately, it came at the cost of him absolutely filling the club up with sheer rubbish that Klopp has spent years trying to shed and plenty are still stuck there on the wage bill. Exactly like us with our Bennys and Slimanis and Silvas.

 

Look at the link above from transfermarkt or go to Wikipedia and look at Liverpool's seasons under Rodgers. 

 

He brought in Moreno (16m), Sahko (17m), Lovren (23m), Benteke (42m!), Markovic (22m), Balotelli (18m), Borini (12m), Origi (11m), Aspas (10m), Luis Alberto (7m), Tiago Ilori (7m), Ings (7m), Lambert (5m.) 

 

That is an absolutely eye watering amount of completely awful transfers, almost all of whom a reasonable layperson could have concluded weren't good enough for a top four pushing Liverpool. 

 

Imagine what wages they were all on. In terms of quantity that's disgusting, in quality it's disgusting, in terms of combined fees it was in the ballpark of £200m in abject dross. And that's before the Neymar-Coutinho effect hit the transfer market, you're probably talking about a 60-80% bump if not more if you were to try and sign those now. 

 

Now what is absolutely remarkable is that Rodgers did that business and still almost won the league, let's be clear I think he's a brilliant coach and I am hopeful he'll do a very good job here. 

 

But he's absolutely not a genius in the transfer market and he'd be much better as a dedicated Head Coach in a European model with a separate director of football in charge of recruitment. 

 

Sadly for us, our own recruitment is mixed at absolute best and as far as I've heard Rodgers insists on using his own people and making his own judgment a la an old school British manager. 

 

I'm cautiously optimistic about our future but I am terrified of the summer transfer window. 

I think you made a very good point there and it is the same worry I have about him also. A Celtic fan also viewed these opinions about his record there way before we were even interested in him. He didn't rate him.

[VIKTOR-LE5]

45 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

For a start, the majority of Celtic and Liverpool fans will tell you the same anecdotally, including the Celtic fan who joined up a week ago in peace. 

 

He essentially said that Rodgers was awful signing finished product, meaning his eye for a young player was okay but the rest of his business was shabby. 

 

But then go back and actually look at his transfer business at Liverpool. There's three brilliant stand out signings Firmino, Gomez, Coutinho. Can't fault that. 

 

Unfortunately, it came at the cost of him absolutely filling the club up with sheer rubbish that Klopp has spent years trying to shed and plenty are still stuck there on the wage bill. Exactly like us with our Bennys and Slimanis and Silvas.

 

Look at the link above from transfermarkt or go to Wikipedia and look at Liverpool's seasons under Rodgers. 

 

He brought in Moreno (16m), Sahko (17m), Lovren (23m), Benteke (42m!), Markovic (22m), Balotelli (18m), Borini (12m), Origi (11m), Aspas (10m), Luis Alberto (7m), Tiago Ilori (7m), Ings (7m), Lambert (5m.) 

 

That is an absolutely eye watering amount of completely awful transfers, almost all of whom a reasonable layperson could have concluded weren't good enough for a top four pushing Liverpool. 

 

Imagine what wages they were all on. In terms of quantity that's disgusting, in quality it's disgusting, in terms of combined fees it was in the ballpark of £200m in abject dross. And that's before the Neymar-Coutinho effect hit the transfer market, you're probably talking about a 60-80% bump if not more if you were to try and sign those now. 

 

Now what is absolutely remarkable is that Rodgers did that business and still almost won the league, let's be clear I think he's a brilliant coach and I am hopeful he'll do a very good job here. 

 

But he's absolutely not a genius in the transfer market and he'd be much better as a dedicated Head Coach in a European model with a separate director of football in charge of recruitment. 

 

Sadly for us, our own recruitment is mixed at absolute best and as far as I've heard Rodgers insists on using his own people and making his own judgment a la an old school British manager. 

 

I'm cautiously optimistic about our future but I am terrified of the summer transfer window. 

 

Tbf Sakho a pretty decent defender and Aspas has done well in La Liga and is Spanish international.

[Lizhang]

According to a Belgian newspaper, Tielemans is supposed to cost €45M.

 

52 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

He brought in Moreno (16m), Sahko (17m), Lovren (23m), Benteke (42m!), Markovic (22m), Balotelli (18m), Borini (12m), Origi (11m), Aspas (10m), Luis Alberto (7m), Tiago Ilori (7m), Ings (7m), Lambert (5m.) 

Klopp had both Origi and Benteke on his shortlist before he went to Liverpool. Origi was 19 i think and still gets gametime.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

For a start, the majority of Celtic and Liverpool fans will tell you the same anecdotally, including the Celtic fan who joined up a week ago in peace. 

 

He essentially said that Rodgers was awful signing finished product, meaning his eye for a young player was okay but the rest of his business was shabby. 

 

But then go back and actually look at his transfer business at Liverpool. There's three brilliant stand out signings Firmino, Gomez, Coutinho. Can't fault that. 

 

Unfortunately, it came at the cost of him absolutely filling the club up with sheer rubbish that Klopp has spent years trying to shed and plenty are still stuck there on the wage bill. Exactly like us with our Bennys and Slimanis and Silvas.

 

Look at the link above from transfermarkt or go to Wikipedia and look at Liverpool's seasons under Rodgers. 

 

He brought in Moreno (16m), Sahko (17m), Lovren (23m), Benteke (42m!), Markovic (22m), Balotelli (18m), Borini (12m), Origi (11m), Aspas (10m), Luis Alberto (7m), Tiago Ilori (7m), Ings (7m), Lambert (5m.) 

 

That is an absolutely eye watering amount of completely awful transfers, almost all of whom a reasonable layperson could have concluded weren't good enough for a top four pushing Liverpool. 

 

Imagine what wages they were all on. In terms of quantity that's disgusting, in quality it's disgusting, in terms of combined fees it was in the ballpark of £200m in abject dross. And that's before the Neymar-Coutinho effect hit the transfer market, you're probably talking about a 60-80% bump if not more if you were to try and sign those now. 

 

Now what is absolutely remarkable is that Rodgers did that business and still almost won the league, let's be clear I think he's a brilliant coach and I am hopeful he'll do a very good job here. 

 

But he's absolutely not a genius in the transfer market and he'd be much better as a dedicated Head Coach in a European model with a separate director of football in charge of recruitment. 

 

Sadly for us, our own recruitment is mixed at absolute best and as far as I've heard Rodgers insists on using his own people and making his own judgment a la an old school British manager. 

 

I'm cautiously optimistic about our future but I am terrified of the summer transfer window. 

I thought he was governed by a transfer panel at Liverpool. Wasnt that Comolli part of it? 

 

I'm terrified that clown from Celtic is going to be brought in when Macia invariably leaves. 

 

He's not had massive of amounts of money at Celtic, but its grim reading.

[Ric Flair]

22 minutes ago, VIKTOR-LE5 said:

 

Tbf Sakho a pretty decent defender and Aspas has done well in La Liga and is Spanish international.

Alberto has done well since leaving too, it's just that Benteke and Moreno price that makes you want to end it.

[HankMarvin]

The €45million Was the price quoted before the Loan deal, which was rejected

Not what it will end up being in the summer

 

Better he plays the more it will be

[knitro]

8 hours ago, Xen said:

He had four days with the players FFS. Did you really expect him to be making wholesale changes immediately? What would have inspired you?

 

He changed to 3atb - which people have been crying out for - and he brought the club captain back into the fold which might not have been the wisest decision in hindsight but on paper it's reasonable and more importantly will win him favour with the players who have proven notoriously difficult to work with for previous managers.

You're making my point for me - exactly, 4 days. What would've inspired me would acknowledging that wholesale changes were not the right decision. Changing to 3 atb on a short week and plugging in old Wes doesn't strike me as genius tactical nous, it seems try-hard and placating. I don't like either of those things - what happened to all the 'you don't change a winning team' expectations that were hurled on Puel constantly? Why not run the 11 vs Brighton out again? There's still tweaks which can be made without formation or personnel changes. 

 

Of course it's early days and he's going to get the benefit of the doubt from me, but I'm allowed to not like his first efforts and the general situation which led to his appointment. Listen, I'm an unrepentant 'Puel shouldn't have been sacked' person - I think it was weak leadership bending to a mob atmosphere and we're going to eat the just desserts of that going forward (be careful what you wish for). I know that's not a popular position and even if it was what's done is done so I'm not going to endless complain about it, but it's not just memes that make Brendan Rodgers' top comparison David Brent, and just because he's been tucked away in the hinterlands in a one-horse league means people have had the memory fade a bit. 

 

In his defense, obviously the way he departed Celtic was less than ideal and I think Top & Co actually put him in the difficult place of making that decision by sacking Puel prematurely. Once that decision was made he pretty much had to leave Celtic immediately, but as a result we have all this bad blood/negativity/distraction from Scotland followed. 

 

Anyways, here's hoping for the best (and I think Tielemans would be a step in the right direction). 

 

 

[weller54]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

You think Silva's value has gone up since we signed him?

Unquestionably! 

We need to big him up now!! 

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, knitro said:

You're making my point for me - exactly, 4 days. What would've inspired me would acknowledging that wholesale changes were not the right decision. Changing to 3 atb on a short week and plugging in old Wes doesn't strike me as genius tactical nous, it seems try-hard and placating. I don't like either of those things - what happened to all the 'you don't change a winning team' expectations that were hurled on Puel constantly? Why not run the 11 vs Brighton out again? There's still tweaks which can be made without formation or personnel changes. 

 

Of course it's early days and he's going to get the benefit of the doubt from me, but I'm allowed to not like his first efforts and the general situation which led to his appointment. Listen, I'm an unrepentant 'Puel shouldn't have been sacked' person - I think it was weak leadership bending to a mob atmosphere and we're going to eat the just desserts of that going forward (be careful what you wish for). I know that's not a popular position and even if it was what's done is done so I'm not going to endless complain about it, but it's not just memes that make Brendan Rodgers' top comparison David Brent, and just because he's been tucked away in the hinterlands in a one-horse league means people have had the memory fade a bit. 

 

In his defense, obviously the way he departed Celtic was less than ideal and I think Top & Co actually put him in the difficult place of making that decision by sacking Puel prematurely. Once that decision was made he pretty much had to leave Celtic immediately, but as a result we have all this bad blood/negativity/distraction from Scotland followed. 

 

Anyways, here's hoping for the best (and I think Tielemans would be a step in the right direction). 

 

 

3 at the back has been used by Puel this season at home vs Wolves where we won and in large parts of the Arsenal game where we were immense for the first half. I'm not so sure it was as bigger risk as is being made out, but we didnt seem to be as easy on the eye on Sunday compared with other games. The end result was pretty similar, we got beat yet again, we are having a horror 2019 and playing well and losing doesnt really fill me with any satisfaction. It needs to be sorted and Rodgers has a style he wants to implement, this may take time and may result in some teething problems but this is a by product of changing manager.

 

I'd hope we improve quickly as we still need a few points and the thought of going all season without a single decent score line margin is bleak, someone needs a hiding off us.

[VIKTOR-LE5]

7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

3 at the back has been used by Puel this season at home vs Wolves where we won and in large parts of the Arsenal game where we were immense for the first half. I'm not so sure it was as bigger risk as is being made out, but we didnt seem to be as easy on the eye on Sunday compared with other games. The end result was pretty similar, we got beat yet again, we are having a horror 2019 and playing well and losing doesnt really fill me with any satisfaction. It needs to be sorted and Rodgers has a style he wants to implement, this may take time and may result in some teething problems but this is a by product of changing manager.

 

I'd hope we improve quickly as we still need a few points and the thought of going all season without a single decent score line margin is bleak, someone needs a hiding off us.

 

Hopefully Fulham for sacking Claudio Ranieri. 

[SheppyFox]

He’s a player to build our future around. A big statement I know.

[brucey]

2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

But he's absolutely not a genius in the transfer market and he'd be much better as a dedicated Head Coach in a European model with a separate director of football in charge of recruitment. 

 

Sadly for us, our own recruitment is mixed at absolute best and as far as I've heard Rodgers insists on using his own people and making his own judgment a la an old school British manager. 

 

I'm cautiously optimistic about our future but I am terrified of the summer transfer window. 

My thoughts too. At least with the training ground loan and trying to get Tielemans we might not have much left to waste.

Brendan’s weakest point (recruitment) just so happens to be Puel’s strongest point. And vice versa with man management.

We’re still paying off Puel anyway so gerrimin as head of recruitment alongside Macia. 

[Blanchflower78]

Wouldn't part with more than 30m, even then it's a record and would make Silva conditional on the other way. 12-14m for him would make it a no brainer. 40m or more is crazy given our record on expensive signings.

[Guest SO1]

31 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

For a start, the majority of Celtic and Liverpool fans will tell you the same anecdotally, including the Celtic fan who joined up a week ago in peace. 

 

He essentially said that Rodgers was awful signing finished product, meaning his eye for a young player was okay but the rest of his business was shabby. 

 

But then go back and actually look at his transfer business at Liverpool. There's three brilliant stand out signings Firmino, Gomez, Coutinho. Can't fault that. 

 

Unfortunately, it came at the cost of him absolutely filling the club up with sheer rubbish that Klopp has spent years trying to shed and plenty are still stuck there on the wage bill. Exactly like us with our Bennys and Slimanis and Silvas.

 

Look at the link above from transfermarkt or go to Wikipedia and look at Liverpool's seasons under Rodgers. 

 

He brought in Moreno (16m), Sahko (17m), Lovren (23m), Benteke (42m!), Markovic (22m), Balotelli (18m), Borini (12m), Origi (11m), Aspas (10m), Luis Alberto (7m), Tiago Ilori (7m), Ings (7m), Lambert (5m.) 

 

That is an absolutely eye watering amount of completely awful transfers, almost all of whom a reasonable layperson could have concluded weren't good enough for a top four pushing Liverpool. 

 

Imagine what wages they were all on. In terms of quantity that's disgusting, in quality it's disgusting, in terms of combined fees it was in the ballpark of £200m in abject dross. And that's before the Neymar-Coutinho effect hit the transfer market, you're probably talking about a 60-80% bump if not more if you were to try and sign those now. 

 

Now what is absolutely remarkable is that Rodgers did that business and still almost won the league, let's be clear I think he's a brilliant coach and I am hopeful he'll do a very good job here. 

 

But he's absolutely not a genius in the transfer market and he'd be much better as a dedicated Head Coach in a European model with a separate director of football in charge of recruitment. 

 

Sadly for us, our own recruitment is mixed at absolute best and as far as I've heard Rodgers insists on using his own people and making his own judgment a la an old school British manager. 

 

I'm cautiously optimistic about our future but I am terrified of the summer transfer window. 

WARNING:  THIS WILL CONTAIN ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE

"anecdotal" def. / adjective (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research./Synonyms/ informal. unreliable. based on hearsay. unscientific.

That's what you've given me. Every last word of it. Sorry to be blunt. Because anecdotal is all we have. Both of us.

 

Structures /    It seems to me that football supporters are stuck between two worlds when it comes to a football managers/coaches responsibilities. The past, and present. In the past it was the manager that was entirely responsible for everything with the exception of signing the check. Now the manager is a part of a group which consists of 3 or in Liverpool's case 5 other principles in the room having a say on transfers and scouting. The power structure seems totally different then what was 20+ years ago. The modern football manager does not have time to scout every player in God's creation.

 

Liverpool /   Imagine having an opportunity of a lifetime. A chance to build something that you've been dreaming about for most of your life. you prepare, you interview, you interview again. You finally get the job.

and then they decide they want to have a Director of Football- Louis van Gaal. (Directors of football choose their own managers to give consistency to the style of play). Of course you tell them to go pound it. He's going to undermine you, fire you and possibly take your job. So Liverpool came up with an idea called the "Transfer Committee" and this is how the idea of "Brendan won't work with a DOF" came about. Brendan has his dream job and FSG(owners) have their transfer accountability........and they all lived happily ever after. NOT.

 

No one really knows how the transfer committee was run but its my observation that Brendan did not choose all of those transfers or even enter the names for consideration. Some sure. I guarantee you that some of those are moneyball signings as in driven exclusively by moneyball/analytics. In other words low fee punts. In Brendan's own words "I had to take somebody". 

 

Stories of the Evil Empire /  After finishing second in the league and being in the Champions League for the first time in years Luis Suarez left for Barcalona. Two weeks before the end of the window, having failed to get Alexis Sanchez, Rodgers was offered the choice of Samuel Eto'o(35) or Mario Balotelli to replace Suarez or nothing. I was fit to be tied. FSG are scum. All that work for that. Sturridge played 9 matches that year due to injury. Try replacing 55 goals.

 

During the 13/14 season(winter) Rodgers badly needed reinforcements and was offered Mohammed Salah(that one) for around 11mil. Supposedly it was agreed to and then Liverpool started Low balling Basel. Chelsea paid 13 mil and the rest is history. So Rodgers received nothing to win the league for what was a threadbare squad. Way to go FSG!

 

Then there's the story about Deli Alli and the opportunity to recruit him from MK DONS that was rejected by the committee. and Henrik Mkhitaryan and.....

 

I won't even talk about Celtic and their 1 or 2 million dollar punts or Dembele which Rodgers attracted for 500,000 only to be resold for 19 million. Or their idiot CEO who undermined Rodgers every window except the first.

Wake up because you, like me, no nothing. Its all anecdotal.

Support the manager. I hope its here that he's finally allowed to build the beautiful dream that's in his head. I saw Liverpool 13/14 and I will never forget it.