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[simFox]

10 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Like I said ...   protect the NHS ..   protect lives ...   unless we really need to pull a statue down right now ...   of a slave trader who was around 300 years ago.   I honestly just don’t get it. 

On the bright side, a quick solution to the pandemic is to get it over with. We are heading down the right path in some respects, we were only delaying the inevitable anyway.

 

I just hope we don't go into lockdown again, fortunately I don't think there will be an appetite for another one.

 

Pulling down the statue just demonstrates the destructive mob mentality of those representing the BLM movement, which just speeds up it's inevitable demise.

 

I listened to an interview with one of the protestors explaining why he was there, he talked about being oppressed and harked back to slavery. I quite agree with him, I've been feeling the same way about the Normans.

[Brizzle Fox]

22 minutes ago, Lionator said:

It's obviously a bad time for protests and what not, but the fact that there's a statue existing which celebrates this gentleman is unnecessary. I'd rather it be removed in a more peaceful manner however it sounds like they've tried that for years. 

They have indeed. It does feel that Bristol has never really adequately come to terms with some of the less savoury aspects of how some of its forefathers earned their wealth and by extension the city's wealth.  Prominent figures such as Colston do burn deep into the psyche of the city, and I must admit a frisson of exhiliration when I saw images of his statue ripped down, even though I would have probably preferred to see it still on its plinth or removed to a museum to educate future generations on the evils of the past. 

The symbolism however is very storm, especially as it was dumped into the harbour next to a bridge named after a freed slave. 

 

 

[peach0000]

Honestly can't understand how anyone can have a problem with that statue coming down. The most concerning aspect of the situation is that the statue had been allowed to stand for this long. It's disgraceful that statues of slave traders are allowed to stand in this country, it's not a part of history that should be celebrated.

[simFox]

12 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

I would think that as Black people, walking past a monument to the slave trade each day would feel wrong. It’d make me angry and I’m white!
 

Im not suggesting that every slave trade related structure will be given such treatment - after all, our country was sadly built on it, but there’s certainly a need for a representation of more balance in the history available to us as a people to celebrate - monuments included.
 

We have amazing figure heads from UK communities to have monuments of - they include women and people from ethnic minority groups... Not many of them though... Be nice if girls and kids from ethnic minority backgrounds in 50 years time could learn about history and their positive historical contributions to it. Where are the statues of positive black icons - black kids need black role models and positive representation.
 

The time for marking the achievements of white men who built their world at the time on the death and misery of other humans is over. That’s a good thing.

I'm fine with that, but I also want a statue of Macmillan in Lagos.

[Nick]

9 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

The time is not right now though, in the middle of the pandemic, when most of us are practicing social distancing so we can try and get back to some degree of normality without more people dying needlessly or losing jobs unnecessarily. 

 

Where does it end? 

When would the right time be?

 

To many being subjected to generations of racism this is far more of a pandemic.

 

Its mostly peaceful but the manner of how black people are policed in this country there will inevitably be pockets of violence toward police.

 

Also we should consider all the forms of protest previously ignored - change always has a cost and we need to alter the fibre of our society inclusive of education and cultural stereotypes.

 

I agree it’s not ideal and I’m sure a second wave will be blamed on these protests but I can’t say I blame the actions of so many people. Many today are social distancing and 80 odd percent are wearing face coverings according to news reports.

 

Ive been fairly privileged to have a community of friends I grew up with in Leicester who are black - the inequality they have been subjected to compared to myself by society in general is genuinely mind blowing. 

 

 

[Fox92]

22 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

We've got Prince Philip in Buckingham Palace. The bloke is horrendously racist. Starts at the top. 

I don't disagree.

[foxile5]

1 minute ago, Fox92 said:

I don't disagree.

Infact that slave trader worked for a royal family founded slaving company. 

[Lionator]

25 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

We've got Prince Philip in Buckingham Palace. The bloke is horrendously racist. Starts at the top. 

To be fair looking at Prince Philip these days, he looks like he's been laying at the bottom of the Thames for a few years.

[Pliskin]

Phillip is a horrendous racist! Publicly too on occasion! 

[Izzy]

19 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Wonder if they will fetch the Churchill statue down? I’ve seen a few photos of people hanging around it? 

Saw this on FB earlier

 

 

[foxile5]

Just now, Pliskin said:

Phillip is a horrendous racist! Publicly too on occasion! 

Get that old turd into the water. 

[Dahnsouff]

The magnifying glass of today judging in detail the misdemeanours of yesterday. That is not enlightenment, it is revisionism.

You don’t fix bigotry by tearing down its idols, you do it building new ones, new ones indicative of a new school thought.

If the mistakes of the past are hidden, they will re-emerge.

 

 

[Pliskin]

1 minute ago, Izzy said:

Saw this on FB earlier

 

 

That will outrage many many a middle aged northerner sat sat eating their chip supper! 

[Corky]

1 hour ago, Walkers said:

I see a lot of people on social media saying when the 2nd wave comes, don't blame the protestors. Blame those having secret raves with friends etc.etc.

 

I ****ing well will thank you very much, along with everybody else that can't follow simple rules and common sense.

And the point is it isn't a competition to see who can spread it more than others. People on beaches, people protesting in huge groups, people having house parties and raves, Cheltenham going ahead, football matches possibly happening when they shouldn't, packed public transport- it will all contribute. 

 

Of course, some have better intentions than others but that's beside the point, the biggest factor in the virus spreading is large groups gathering then returning home and to work. Amid all the confusing and contradictory information we've had, not gathering in large groups has been some of the clearest. 

[Nalis]

1 minute ago, Izzy said:

Saw this on FB earlier

 

 

I would dread to think what life would have been like for a black person under Nazi rule. 

[l444ry]

15 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

Honestly can't understand how anyone can have a problem with that statue coming down. The most concerning aspect of the situation is that the statue had been allowed to stand for this long. It's disgraceful that statues of slave traders are allowed to stand in this country, it's not a part of history that should be celebrated.

Wonder if those criticising pulling this statue down feel the same way about the locals pulling down the Saddam Hussein statue?   

[CosbehFox]

16 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

Honestly can't understand how anyone can have a problem with that statue coming down. The most concerning aspect of the situation is that the statue had been allowed to stand for this long. It's disgraceful that statues of slave traders are allowed to stand in this country, it's not a part of history that should be celebrated.

Given that the city’s use of Colston was a very public debate twelve months by the council etc, it’s appears a case of judgments being made from those with little knowledge. 
 

Don’t agree with the crowds gathering but the statue coming down as an act alone should be applauded 

[Sir Shep]

4 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Saw this on FB earlier

 

 

I’ve tried to stay out of this, but if Churchill hadn’t have stood up to fascist Germany, black lives certainly wouldn’t have mattered. He was no saint but my god  defacing his statue really infuriated me. 

[simFox]

25 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

 

Ive been fairly privileged to have a community of friends I grew up with in Leicester who are black - the inequality they have been subjected to compared to myself by society in general is genuinely mind blowing. 

 

 

I bet most people on here have friends who are black. I'm sure they have all experienced some sort of prejudice.

 

You might laugh, but I have a friend who is bright ginger, he told me a story of when he was on a train and he got called a derogatory name by an ethnic stranger; everyone within earshot laughed. At the time he was seriously upset about it and it's not the only time he has had to endure such comments, yet no one has ever marched for ginger people. 

 

I don't think calling a stranger a racist name will be tolerated, but it seems like it's ok to call other people names, especially if you were born with ginger hair, eyebrows and pasty complexion.

 

There's a very simple solution to all of this, we all just need to be a lot nicer to each other. 

 

Sympathysing and virtue signalling with a cause intent on sowing division amongst the population isn't helping. Especially when categorising everyone else as racist when they don't want to be.

Edited 7 June 2020 by simFox

[Nick]

6 minutes ago, simFox said:

I bet most people on here have friends who are black. I'm sure they have all experienced some sort of prejudice.

 

You might laugh, but I have a friend who is bright ginger, he told me a story of when he was on a train and he got called a derogatory name by an ethnic stranger; everyone within earshot laughed. At the time he was seriously upset about it and it's not the only time he has had to endure such comments, yet no one has ever marched for ginger people. 

 

I don't think calling a stranger a racist name will be tolerated, but it seems like it's ok to call other people names, especially if you were born with ginger hair, eyebrows and pasty complexion.

 

There's a very simple solution to all of this, we all just need to be a lot nicer to each other. 

 

Sympathysing and virtue signalling with a cause intent on sowing division amongst the population isn't helping. Especially when categorising everyone else as racist when they don't want to be.

When a kid is locked up, having ginger hair is one of the warning markers in the first week for violence and suicide.

[l444ry]

17 minutes ago, Sir Shep said:

I’ve tried to stay out of this, but if Churchill hadn’t have stood up to fascist Germany, black lives certainly wouldn’t have mattered. He was no saint but my god  defacing his statue really infuriated me. 

Difficult to form a consistent view on Churchill. Right man at the right time for WW2 but pretty conclusive that he was as racist as they come.

[Izzy]

7 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

When a kid is locked up, having ginger hair is one of the warning markers in the first week for violence and suicide.

Ah, so that’s why I’ve spent my life scared of going to prison 

[simFox]

1 minute ago, Swan Lesta said:

When a kid is locked up, having ginger hair is one of the warning markers in the first week for violence and suicide.

Are you suggesting people today get locked up because they are black? I'd be interested to see some stats on that.

 

I can think of a recent scenario in Rotherham where people weren't prosecuted based on their ethnic status.

 

There may be wrongful arrests based on description, but that happens to all races, I got stopped by the police for running once, which was highly irritating because I was even more late. 

 

Maybe we should look at suicide rates instead, then we can march for everyone who has been discriminated against.

[Guest worth_the_wait]

If Churchill hadn't stood up to the Nazis in 1940, the consequences almost don't bear thinking about.
 
Britain would've had to sue for peace on the Nazis's term, and would effectively have been neutralised.
 
Germany could then have turned all its might on the Soviet Union, and might well have won.
 (and turned all of Europe into a dark age, racist hell)
 
USA would never have come into the war on the Allies side, and there would have been no liberation of Europe.
 
If the Nazis had ultimately lost, the Soviet Union would have swept East to the Atlantic and conquered all of Europe.
 (and turned into their Stalinist totalitarian hell)
 
The ECSC/EEC/EU (European Union) would never have seen the light of day.
 
One of those historical ironies is the without Churchill, a free Europe as we know it, would almost cetainly not exist.

 

[Beechey]

1 minute ago, l444ry said:

Difficult to form a consistent view on Churchill. Right man at the right time for WW2 but pretty conclusive that he was as racist as they come.

Yes, even for his time he was extreme, but we need to separate that from why he's celebrated in this country and around the world (quite rightly).

It's not like he has a statues around the world because he was racist, he has statues despite that fact, because his actions at other times of his life were so crucial to the survival of the free world and western civilisation.