Also in the news

[Countryfox]

2 minutes ago, worth_the_wait said:

If Churchill hadn't stood up to the Nazis in 1940, the consequences almost don't bear thinking about.
 
Britain would've had to sue for peace on the Nazis's term, and would effectively have been neutralised.
 
Germany could then have turned all its might on the Soviet Union, and might well have won.
 (and turned all of Europe into a dark age, racist hell)
 
USA would never have come into the war on the Allies side, and there would have been no liberation of Europe.
 
If the Nazis had ultimately lost, the Soviet Union would have swept East to the Atlantic and conquered all of Europe.
 (and turned into their Stalinist totalitarian hell)
 
The ECSC/EEC/EU (European Union) would never have seen the light of day.
 
One of those historical ironies is the without Churchill, a free Europe as we know it, would almost cetainly not exist.

 

You’re wasting your time ...   he was a racist, as probably most people were at that time, so the fact he played a major role in saving western democracy is neither here nor there ...

[Bilo]

 

Be interesting to see how Forest fans react to this to be honest. 

[l444ry]

1 minute ago, Beechey said:

Yes, even for his time he was extreme, but we need to separate that from why he's celebrated in this country and around the world (quite rightly).

It's not like he has a statues around the world because he was racist, he has statues despite that fact, because his actions at other times of his life were so crucial to the survival of the free world and western civilisation.

If he was that revered then why did the country vote Attlee and Labour at the first opportunity? History is written by the winners and statues come with it. Think his generation knew what Churchill was like as a human being. Don't forget the cranes at his funeral either.

[l444ry]

…..and now that the first shot has been fired on statues, Robert Clive at the Foreign Office had better watch his back! 

[Pliskin]

16 minutes ago, Bilo said:

 

Be interesting to see how Forest fans react to this to be honest. 

Is that the same person who said the protestors feared for their lives when they saw the police horses? The same horses that are deployed during particularly tasty football matches? 

[Stinkenzo]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

Saw this on FB earlier

 

 

Does the strikethrough mean he wasn't a racist?

[bovril]

45 minutes ago, Beechey said:

Yes, even for his time he was extreme, but we need to separate that from why he's celebrated in this country and around the world (quite rightly).

It's not like he has a statues around the world because he was racist, he has statues despite that fact, because his actions at other times of his life were so crucial to the survival of the free world and western civilisation.

He's not celebrated around the world. He's despised at least as much as he's loved if not more so.

[Bilo]

27 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Is that the same person who said the protestors feared for their lives when they saw the police horses? The same horses that are deployed during particularly tasty football matches? 

¿Que?

[EastAnglianFox]

1 hour ago, l444ry said:

Wonder if those criticising pulling this statue down feel the same way about the locals pulling down the Saddam Hussein statue?   

 

Busted 

 

 

[StanSP]

I just cannot get my head around what defacing a statue of Churchill solves. Really baffles me.

[l444ry]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

I just cannot get my head around what defacing a statue of Churchill solves. Really baffles me.

Probably just a couple of idiots. Like football yobs, it's best not tar everyone with the same brush.

[bovril]

I knew someone would make the Saddam comparison. Somehow I knew it'd be Piers Morgan. 

[Beechey]

49 minutes ago, bovril said:

He's not celebrated around the world. He's despised at least as much as he's loved if not more so.

You’re aware “around the world” is a subset of the entire planet, right? It doesn’t necessarily mean he’s celebrated everywhere, but in lots of places globally, which I think you’ll find hard to argue against. Yes, he may also be detested around the world. They’re not mutually exclusive.

Edited 7 June 2020 by Beechey

[Finnaldo]

Bit of a sidetrack but Churchill was a properly weird guy. Could be as racist as they come and had some real suspect actions by his name, but at the same time had this odd fascination with Islam, so much that he wanted to build London’s first Mosque. Family was so concerned he might convert they had to write him a pleading for him not to convert

 

Not the public figure’s statue to deface if you want to get the public onside though. Clearly someone in it to get a bit of credit with his Marxist-Leninist Society buddies.

[Sir Shep]

I imagine they won’t be defacing Nelson Mandela’s statue with the word “Terrorist”. Sorry but whilst I’ll agree he did like the empire amongst other things he did stand up to Hitler whilst others wanted to appease him. Like Mandela he stood up to tyranny and should be treated with the respect he deserves. 

[FoxesDeb]

2 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

When would the right time be?

 

To many being subjected to generations of racism this is far more of a pandemic.

 

Its mostly peaceful but the manner of how black people are policed in this country there will inevitably be pockets of violence toward police.

 

Also we should consider all the forms of protest previously ignored - change always has a cost and we need to alter the fibre of our society inclusive of education and cultural stereotypes.

 

I agree it’s not ideal and I’m sure a second wave will be blamed on these protests but I can’t say I blame the actions of so many people. Many today are social distancing and 80 odd percent are wearing face coverings according to news reports.

 

Ive been fairly privileged to have a community of friends I grew up with in Leicester who are black - the inequality they have been subjected to compared to myself by society in general is genuinely mind blowing. 

 

 

Anytime we're not in the middle of a killer global pandemic relying on people gathering in large numbers to keep it going 

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

 

David Gilmour's son got 16 months in prison for swinging on the flags on the Cenotaph. 

 

This little cvnt tried to burn them a day after D Day.

[iniesta]

Identity politics has been cynically used by elites/corporations to split people apart to protect their own power. 

 

The divide in modern Britain is class not race. I don't doubt ethnic minorities are targeted and harrassed by the police. Living on a majority white council estate in 90s 00s - i know the feeling. 

 

[Corky]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

I just cannot get my head around what defacing a statue of Churchill solves. Really baffles me.

I fear we may see plenty of unrest in the next few days, I don't think people will accept it (rightly or wrongly) quietly.

 

Churchill is an enormous figure in our country's history, defacing his statue is big news.

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, Corky said:

I fear we may see plenty of unrest in the next few days, I don't think people will accept it (rightly or wrongly) quietly.

 

Churchill is an enormous figure in our country's history, defacing his statue is big news.

Yeah exactly. Absolutely revered in this country and was (recently?) voted as one of the best PMs UK has ever had and one of the most iconic men in history. What message does that give out by vandalising his statue?!

[twoleftfeet]

1 hour ago, EastAnglianFox said:

 

Busted 

 

 

I see a lot of white anarchists hijacking BLM for their own ends. 

[Pliskin]

Burning the cenotaph is probably the most disrespectful thing you could do in this country. Not to mentions dishonouring all Of the ethnic groups that fought in WWII. 
 

But surely defacing any war memorial means your are shitting on diversity? They don’t just represent the fallen soldiers, but also the 6 million Jewish lives ended, by a racist, fascist dictator.. Along with millions of other loves lost as a result of Nazi Germany.  

Edited 7 June 2020 by Pliskin

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Yeah exactly. Absolutely revered in this country and was (recently?) voted as one of the best PMs UK has ever had and one of the most iconic men in history. What message does that give out by vandalising his statue?!

I’m absolutely raging about it.

I know it’s a few idiots but it needs condemning by whoever is organising this shambolic **** you parade. If it continues in this manner, I can see retaliation.

[StanSP]

If he actually is related and what he states, that's a big put-down

 

[st albans fox]

Had quite a debate with my eldest daughter about colston and how an acceptance of the events of today could lead to incidents that no one wants to see as protesters could become emboldened to attack other statues bringing themselves and authorities into conflict. One would have hoped that the current climate would see the statue removed democratically (there have been attempts before). I’m basically uncomfortable with the re writing of history out of context and with centuries of hindsight.  But I would have supported the removal of colston’s statue following correct procedure.