Also in the news

[Beechey]

24 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Burning the cenotaph is probably the most disrespectful thing you could do in this country. Not to mentions dishonouring all Of the ethnic groups that fought in WWII. 
 

But surely defacing any war memorial means your shitting on diversity? They don’t just represent the fallen soldiers, but also the 6 million Jewish lives ended, by a racist, fascist dictator.. Along with millions of other loves lost as a result of Nazi Germany.  

I don’t get it, it’s a memorial that purposely doesn’t discriminate in age, rank, race or religion. It’s one of the most inclusive monuments in the country and is there for the remembrance of all the fallen in war, and people are desecrating it. 

 

It’s a sure-fire way to lose public support.

Edited 7 June 2020 by Beechey

[Tuna]

 

[Heathrow fox]

33 minutes ago, iniesta said:

Identity politics has been cynically used by elites/corporations to split people apart to protect their own power. 

 

The divide in modern Britain is class not race. I don't doubt ethnic minorities are targeted and harrassed by the police. Living on a majority white council estate in 90s 00s - i know the feeling. 

 

The Police officers baton dosern’t care what colour you are once the establishment are threatened.What a shame the parties that are supposed to stand up for the working class worldwide have fallen headover for the load of tosh that is identity politics.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

49 minutes ago, Corky said:

I fear we may see plenty of unrest in the next few days, I don't think people will accept it (rightly or wrongly) quietly.

 

Churchill is an enormous figure in our country's history, defacing his statue is big news.

 

Yeah, I thought the same earlier. 

 

I think alot of people are showing faux-outrage regarding the Colston statue in Bristol when really you wonder how it was even standing in the first place. It felt meaningful when it toppled and it was clearly huge for some of the demonstrators - I thought it was great tbh.

 

While I've got no strong feelings on Churchill, he is a hugely different kettle of fish though. I don't think there can be any doubt he held some pretty aborrhent views on certain things, but he's ultimately an integral reason we have so many of the freedoms afforded to us today. The vandalism of his statue and (moreso) dicking about on the cenotaph are idiotic and will undermine their message, unfortunately. Can't help but think it'll be like a red rag to Free Tommy folk and provoke them into some form of action, seems like a matter of time before things properly spill over. 

 

In some of the clips doing the rounds I feel genuinely gutted for demonstrators trying to quell situations, and failing to get arseholes to stop hijacking what should be peaceful protests, and have been, in the majority. I don't think I've seen any unrest outside of London.

Edited 7 June 2020 by Miquel The Work Geordie

[Strokes]

6 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

Yeah, I thought the same earlier. 

 

I think alot of people are showing faux-outrage regarding the Colson statue in Bristol when really you wonder how it was even standing in the first place. It felt meaningful when it toppled and it was clearly huge for some of the demonstrators - I thought it was great tbh.

 

While I've got no strong feelings on Churchill, he is a hugely different kettle of fish though. I don't think there can be any doubt he held some pretty aborrhent views on certain things, but he's ultimately an integral reason we have so many of the freedoms afforded to us today. The vandalism of his statue and (moreso) dicking about on the cenotaph are idiotic and will undermine their message, unfortunately. Can't help but think it'll be like a red rag to Free Tommy folk and provoke them into some form of action, seems like a matter of time before things properly spill over. 

 

In some of the clips doing the rounds I feel genuinely gutted for demonstrators trying to quell situations, and failing to get arseholes to stop hijacking what should be peaceful protests, and have been, in the majority. I don't think I've seen any unrest outside of London.

Apart from the Bristol statue toppling I haven’t either and it’s a good point. Let’s just hope the idiots are dealt swiftly before this escalates to something beyond comprehension.

[foxile5]

Attempting to burn the cenotaph really gives this movement credence eh? 

 

It highlights what it is. A load of morons co-opting a serious matter to cause a bit of unrest. Totally undermines the message that the peaceful protesters want to achieve. 

 

What a **** that bloke is. 

[iniesta]

31 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

The Police officers baton dosern’t care what colour you are once the establishment are threatened.What a shame the parties that are supposed to stand up for the working class worldwide have fallen headover for the load of tosh that is identity politics.

Everyday we waste talking about identity politics and race, talk of our failing economy and poverty is ignored.

 

Identidy issues are a very easy talking point for many affluent/comfortable people in this country. 

[WigstonWanderer]

4 hours ago, l444ry said:

 

He was so intelligent and articulate 

[Lionator]

Some nuanced thoughts from a bit of a lefty.

 

- Protest is good. Removing a statue commemorating a slave trader is also good (refer to @Brizzle Fox’s earlier post). There was something rather symbolic about it. 

 

- Writing Graffiti on a churchill monument. Daft idea, sure to offend. Churchill, flawed character, did some terrible things, however ultimately won our freedom.

 

- Attacking the police, attacking the cenotaph. Criminal and absolutely disgraceful and letting down the 99.9% who are protesting peacefully. 
 

Also Farage and Tommy Cokefingers can do one. Criminals in their own rights. 

Edited 7 June 2020 by Lionator

[StanSP]

8 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Also Farage and Tommy Cokefingers can do one. Criminals in their own rights

Farage calling these lot 'the new Taliban' was a very retarded comment even by his standards. 

[Beechey]

 

[TamworthFoxes]

10 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Some nuanced thoughts from a bit of a lefty.

 

- Protest is good. Removing a statue commemorating a slave trader is also good (refer to @Brizzle Fox’s earlier post). There was something rather symbolic about it. 

 

- Writing Graffiti on a churchill monument. Daft idea, sure to offend. Churchill, flawed character, did some terrible things, however ultimately won our freedom.

 

- Attacking the police, attacking the cenotaph. Criminal and absolutely disgraceful and letting down the 99.9% who are protesting peacefully. 
 

Also Farage and Tommy Cokefingers can do one. Criminals in their own rights. 

As pointed out in this thread numerous times protest is not good during a pandemic.

Not a good idea to graffiti a statue and also criminal damage.

Even worse idea to attack the cenotaph in a proud country with a proud military past.

I presume you mean Tommy Robinson when you refer to Tommy Cokefingers, yes a convicted criminal, as was George Floyd. Farage I wasn’t aware was a convicted criminal.

I think today could be a turning point in how this goes. Football lads alliance already planning to be in London next weekend to protect war memorials could spell large scale disorder.

[StanSP]

9 minutes ago, TamworthFoxes said:

Not a good idea to graffiti a statue and also criminal damage.

Even worse idea to attack the cenotaph in a proud country with a proud military past.

He doesn't disagree? 

 

10 minutes ago, TamworthFoxes said:

 

I presume you mean Tommy Robinson when you refer to Tommy Cokefingers, yes a convicted criminal, as was George Floyd. 

What is this even suggesting? 

 

[Blue-fox]

Just when you think people couldn’t be any more moronic, we have events like this today. 
 

the police should have gone in and battonned the lot of them. They really have no idea. 

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

Had quite a debate with my eldest daughter about colston and how an acceptance of the events of today could lead to incidents that no one wants to see as protesters could become emboldened to attack other statues bringing themselves and authorities into conflict. One would have hoped that the current climate would see the statue removed democratically (there have been attempts before). I’m basically uncomfortable with the re writing of history out of context and with centuries of hindsight.  But I would have supported the removal of colston’s statue following correct procedure. 

 

I can see how the upsetting film of the Floyd killing could have triggered justified anger in some who attacked the Colston statue - particularly against the background of longer-standing grievances and the current feverish atmosphere. Mind you, I do suspect that some of those involved will have been mindlessly anti-authority Class War types or virtue-signalling Twitterites. A concerted democratic campaign to have the Colston statue removed would have been better - and would probably have succeeded in the current climate, as you say.

 

I don't think a democratic decision to remove a statue needs to imply the rewriting of history - just a decision to stop publicly honouring or glorifying someone, which is what a statue does. I was down in Bristol a couple of years ago and visited a museum down by the docks. I don't remember many details but it had a good exhibition covering Bristol's history of wider trade, slave trading and other history in context. I can't remember what coverage there was of Colston, but I assume he was covered - and rightly so. We need to learn about history and significant individuals in history, in context, both the good and the bad - part of why Colston is such a big name there is because he was a big philanthropist for the local community, donating money made from all sorts of trading, including, yes, slave trading. It's possible to have exhibitions covering that (including the context & the good stuff he did) while deciding that a glorifying statue is no longer appropriate.

 

I do hope this comes to an end now, though - especially after attacks on the Churchill statue and the Cenotaph. As you say, there's a risk of conflict between protesters and the police (who seem to have wisely taken a softly-softly approach, at least in Bristol, but could not carry on doing so indefinitely) - not to mention the ongoing health risk. But there's also the risk of retaliatory actions from those enraged at such incidents - and even from Far Right elements such as Yaxley-Lennon and his ilk. If idiots keep doing stuff like the Churchill/Cenotaph attacks, it's only a matter of time before others turn up to oppose them - or to attack statues of Mandela or whoever. There are real grievances but this isn't the way to address them.

[Nuneatonfox in Manchester]

51 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Some nuanced thoughts from a bit of a lefty.

 

- Protest is good. Removing a statue commemorating a slave trader is also good (refer to @Brizzle Fox’s earlier post). There was something rather symbolic about it. 

 

- Writing Graffiti on a churchill monument. Daft idea, sure to offend. Churchill, flawed character, did some terrible things, however ultimately won our freedom.

 

- Attacking the police, attacking the cenotaph. Criminal and absolutely disgraceful and letting down the 99.9% who are protesting peacefully. 
 

Also Farage and Tommy Cokefingers can do one. Criminals in their own rights. 

99.9%? 

You’re dreaming there 

[Brizzle Fox]

For anyone interested, a rather more educated perspective on today's events with the statue of Colston can be found in the thread below from the wonderful Professor Kate Williams... 

 

[foxfanazer]

OK people we've finally ****ed the world up. Let's nuke it and maybe start again in a few million years. Maybe keep a time portal of the 2015/16 season though 

Edited 7 June 2020 by foxfanazer

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Beechey said:

 

That’ll work!

[yorkie1999]

31 minutes ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

99.9%? 

You’re dreaming there 

Sounds good though

[foxfanazer]

1 hour ago, Beechey said:

 

I think they tried that in Braunstone when I was a kid

[urban.spaceman]

[urban.spaceman]

That's enough internet for today.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52957113

 

Toupee45 has such thin skin.

[leicsmac]

Regarding the Colston statue, my viewpoint on that is pretty much the same as it is with statues of Confederate "heroes" in the US - slavery was as wrong then as it is now even though it was "legal", many people knew it but couldn't act out against it because the slaveowners had too much political power, and as such those historical figures involved in the perpetuation of it shouldn't be commemorated at all.

 

Put them in a museum where people can learn about what they did, but a statue in the outdoors is designed to deify and I can't see any reason, any reason at all, for those whose sole fame and profit was being involved in the slave trade being deified.