Coronavirus Thread

[yorkie1999]

Just now, Facecloth said:

You can still get this with the vaccine I think, it just doesn't make you ill because it can't attack your body. Its still there though and can be transmitted.

So, at the end of the day, it's going to be a case of if you don't get vaccinated and you catch it, it's your own silly fault.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

The rate per 100k in my postcode is 985 

 

[yorkie1999]

1 minute ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

The rate per 100k in my postcode is 985 

 

0.9% or 1 in a hundred. I read somewhere that London is 1 in 20!

[Costock_Fox]

3 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

The rate per 100k in my postcode is 985 

 

Lot of people in that postcode mate and I can’t imagine you are able to distance, no shock to me

[OrielCaziado]

6 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

The rate per 100k in my postcode is 985 

 

Wow I wouldn’t bother doing the postcode lottery there as you’ll probably only win £1.34 if your  postcode wins. 

[Guest Harrydc]

14 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Can't transmit it if you don't have it 

From what I've been seeing on the news, they're saying that the vaccine will simply stop you being hospitalized, but you're still able to transmit it. Otherwise, why would you still be required to wear a mask and social distance if you have had the vaccine?  

[dsr-burnley]

20 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Good question to be fair, I'm sure some of the posters in here will be able to give a decent educated answer.

 

My first question would be has it been proved that it doesn't stop/lessen transmission?

The way vaccines normally work (and I doubt this disease is any different) is that it stops the virus from multiplying.

 

In the normal way, a virus (or several million virus particles) enter your body and gleefully start multiplying away while your body has no defences.  Then your body spots the invaders and puts its immune system to work creating antivirus softwate, or antibodies as they are more technically called, to kill off all these little virus characters.  The virus characters are multiplying as fast as they can, the antibodies are fighting back, and the end of the war is when the virus is defeated and you recover, or else your body is unable to fight back against the viruses or has to use so much effort to do it that it can't carry out some other function necessary to life, and you die or suffer irreparable damage.

 

But the point of the antibodies is that either they stop the virus multiplying or that they stop it establishing itself in your body.  Either way, instead of the original millions multiplying merrily, they don't multiply and you don't get a big dose of virus.  The initial virus enters your body in exactly the same way, but if your body already knows how to deal with it (either by vaccine or by having had it before) then it can kill the invaders before they multiply like mad.

 

So it's certainly possible to pass it on after you have been vaccinated.  With most viruses, you don't pass it on because you never have enough of the virus to seriously hurt someone - it's the "viral load" issue.  The theory goes that people who are seriously ill, have received a large "viral load" of this virus so it gets a really good hold before the antibodies fight back.  If the "viral load" theory is correct, then people who have had the vaccination will not pass on the disease to any significant degree.

 

But it hasn't been tested yet.  Most viruses, people who are immune can (in practive) not pass it on.  Few exceptions.  In this case, the chances are it's the same as other viruses, but it hasn't been tested yet, so it's all supposition based on other viruses, it's not based on practical knowledge of this one.

[yorkie1999]

4 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

From what I've been seeing on the news, they're saying that the vaccine will simply stop you being hospitalized, but you're still able to transmit it. Otherwise, why would you still be required to wear a mask and social distance if you have had the vaccine?  

It's going to come down to the green hat if you've had it and the red hat if you haven't.

[Pliskin]

9 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

From what I've been seeing on the news, they're saying that the vaccine will simply stop you being hospitalized, but you're still able to transmit it. Otherwise, why would you still be required to wear a mask and social distance if you have had the vaccine?  

That is not uncommon with a virus, people can be carriers of all kinds of viruses and not have any symptoms. The vaccine will theoretically allow vaccinated people's immune system recognise elements the protein before the virus has a chance to properly infect them, so If you get it you will probably feel like you have a cold for a few days before recovering. Social distancing measures will still need to be followed initially to allow the vaccine to be rolled out without any adverse whole backlashes that could compromise the integrity of the vaccine, it needs to work so we need to be as cautious as possible. Once the vaccine is driving the infection rates down, we should be safe to start resuming normal life, that's the key, the vaccine needs to be reducing the infection rate, just because it is in circulation does not mean it will automatically have an impact it millions are still being infected. 

Edited 12 January 2021 by Pliskin

[Guest Fktf]

28 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Vaccines stop you getting it which means, if you've not got it, you can't transmit it so consequently you are protecting others. 

Not always. Some just lessen the severity of the disease if you do get. However, even in these circumstances it protects others. Lower symptoms usually mean you shed less of the virus when you're infectious, which means less chance of you passing it on to others. 

[filbertway]

3 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

The way vaccines normally work (and I doubt this disease is any different) is that it stops the virus from multiplying.

 

In the normal way, a virus (or several million virus particles) enter your body and gleefully start multiplying away while your body has no defences.  Then your body spots the invaders and puts its immune system to work creating antivirus softwate, or antibodies as they are more technically called, to kill off all these little virus characters.  The virus characters are multiplying as fast as they can, the antibodies are fighting back, and the end of the war is when the virus is defeated and you recover, or else your body is unable to fight back against the viruses or has to use so much effort to do it that it can't carry out some other function necessary to life, and you die or suffer irreparable damage.

 

But the point of the antibodies is that either they stop the virus multiplying or that they stop it establishing itself in your body.  Either way, instead of the original millions multiplying merrily, they don't multiply and you don't get a big dose of virus.  The initial virus enters your body in exactly the same way, but if your body already knows how to deal with it (either by vaccine or by having had it before) then it can kill the invaders before they multiply like mad.

 

So it's certainly possible to pass it on after you have been vaccinated.  With most viruses, you don't pass it on because you never have enough of the virus to seriously hurt someone - it's the "viral load" issue.  The theory goes that people who are seriously ill, have received a large "viral load" of this virus so it gets a really good hold before the antibodies fight back.  If the "viral load" theory is correct, then people who have had the vaccination will not pass on the disease to any significant degree.

 

But it hasn't been tested yet.  Most viruses, people who are immune can (in practive) not pass it on.  Few exceptions.  In this case, the chances are it's the same as other viruses, but it hasn't been tested yet, so it's all supposition based on other viruses, it's not based on practical knowledge of this one.

That's how I had it figured in my head but wasn't sure if I was thinking along the right lines. The theory makes sense to me though.

[yorkie1999]

I know it's early but, I wonder if any of those that have been vaccinated have caught it.

[Guest Harrydc]

4 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

It's going to come down to the green hat if you've had it and the red hat if you haven't.

So why would it be deemed selfish if you wasn't to have the vaccine, if they don't stop transmition. If you're a 'green hat' you should be fine. 

[leicsmac]

27 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/commentary/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-effective-spread-immunity-antibody-13937600

 

This is a pretty good summary.

Repeating this as it answers a lot of the questions being asked here right now.

[egg_fried_rice]

2 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

So why would it be deemed selfish if you wasn't to have the vaccine, if they don't stop transmition. If you're a 'green hat' you should be fine. 

Because if you were to catch it, get ill and take up a hospital bed, you'd be denying that bed to someone who was ill with something there was no vaccine for. And that is if they don't reduce transmission of symptomatic cases which they very well might, as they almost certainly reduce the viral load.

[Voll Blau]

6 minutes ago, Harrydc said:

So why would it be deemed selfish if you wasn't to have the vaccine, if they don't stop transmition. If you're a 'green hat' you should be fine. 

Because the more people who keep getting ill with it, the longer we have to live with this shitshow. If you don't get it, you run that risk.

[yorkie1999]

Just had an email from the environmental agency to say that the government have given the ok to go fishing as it's classed as exercise! There ain't many forms of exercise that allow you to smoke 20 fags, drink 3 pints of tea and eat a couple of swiss rolls are there.

[StanSP]

@Col city fan - look how different these definitions are of local. And people wonder why so many do such different things (I'm fully behind the point of using common sense, don't get me wrong).

 

 

'Government guidance says daily outdoor exercise is allowed but people should not travel outside their local area.

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Dame Cressida Dick told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the trip had not been "against the law - that's for sure".

People should go for exercise "from your front door and come back to your front door", she said, adding: "That's my view of local."

Policing minister Kit Malthouse told BBC Breakfast that Johnson was taking his once-a-day exercise, saying as long as people are “staying local within their own mind” and are not mixing “then that is reasonable”.'

 

 

You have Met Police' s PCC saying Boris cycling 7 miles is not against the law, and some crap about exercise from your front door and returning back later to your front door. That really doesn't clear anything up to be honest although I suspect what she means is once you leave your house, don't go anywhere else indoors or with anyone else and come back home? That still doesn't clear up 'local'. 

 

Then you have a Policing Minister 'as long as people stay local in their own mind'. Anyone can interpret that as several different distances. Far too vague!! 

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

Just had an email from the environmental agency to say that the government have given the ok to go fishing as it's classed as exercise! There ain't many forms of exercise that allow you to smoke 20 fags, drink 3 pints of tea and eat a couple of swiss rolls are there.

Still mesmerising that golf isn't allowed.

 

 

[BKLFox]

7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Still mesmerising that golf isn't allowed.

 

 

Not sure thats true Ric as in the top picture they are clearing carrying drinks which we have since found out, well according to Derby's finest, constitutes a picnic which is also a no no

[Carl the Llama]

11 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Still mesmerising that golf isn't allowed.

 

 

Because if everyone was allowed to play golf the courses would presumably get pretty crowded.

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Carl the Llama said:

Because if everyone was allowed to play golf the courses would presumably get pretty crowded.

Most golf courses have been online booking only for a few years now, its been a long while you can just turn up and play. The reason is likely to be because people can't be seen to be going and enjoying themselves and people who play other sports will get upset. 

[yorkie1999]

10 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Most golf courses have been online booking only for a few years now, its been a long while you can just turn up and play. The reason is likely to be because people can't be seen to be going and enjoying themselves and people who play other sports will get upset. 

It's not a sport, it's a game.

[CosbehFox]

A few posts back we discussed how government likes to divide. 

This discourse about local and coffee is doing exactly that. Keeps Rashford off the front page doesn’t it 

[ajthefox]

11 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Such an overreaction in the media to Boris's bike ride.

So much to investigate, many things to push the Govt hard on and the Mirror (no surprise really, left wing paper) makes it front page.

We get our priorities wrong in this country so often.

I'm no fan of Boris and I can't say I've seen any of the fuss but I can well imagine. Media sensationalise trivial shite - what's new?

 

I think anyone genuinely bothered by him doing this as probably just as pissed off with where this all stems from, which is a lack of leadership and clarity from the government and the relevant authorities.

 

Going for a 7 mile bike ride isn't harming anyone, but when you get those two women in Derbyshire getting the shite they did - when most people seem to agree was reasonable or at the very least, wasn't unreasonable - it just highlights the wider issues that we face. Of course it's not Boris' fault that the c*ntstables involved made a bit of a daft decision they can't defend legally, but their decision surely reflects their instructions and the broader guidance that was received by the force across the country.

All of it comes back to leadership and communication at the higher levels, and No.10 is responsible for that.