Why did he take off Iheanacho

[Guest An Sionnach]

He has all the look of a Macclesfield manager in a couple of years. I have said it before he and his assistant have NO f*****g playing experience . He seems to think that football can be an academical exercise and he is totally f*****g wrong.

[Vestan Pance]

17 minutes ago, Webbo said:

As I've said to the many replies I've had, it's easy to be clever with hindsight.

I messaged several people when I saw the substitution saying it was a huge gamble. I'm no football tactical genius. 

[Free Falling Foxes]

BR will learn from his mistakes - I just wonder how many mistakes it'll take.

[Alf Bentley]

I agree that it's easy to be wise with hindsight - and that sometimes it could have been the right decision to protect the 1-0, but.........

 

The reason why it seemed wrong today was not about tactics, it was about psychology:

- Our psychology and Bournemouth's psychology

 

- Bournemouth's self-confidence looked absolutely shot in that first half, understandably given recent form, injuries etc. Plus we'd given them the runaround & they were lucky to be only 1 down.

- Our self-confidence has been shaky for months, but we'd had a couple of decent results & had performed well in the 1st half

 

If we'd stayed on the front foot & carried on dominating possession, there looked little risk of conceding  and a high chance of scoring a second, which would almost certainly have caused them to collapse psychologically & given us a further boost.

 

Never mind the tactics. When you desperately need confidence, have been performing in a confidence-restoring way & have your vulnerable opponent on the ropes, it makes no sense to back off and change things.

It helped Bournemouth psychologically (even before Kasper and Caglar's meltdowns) and undermined us psychologically.

 

I thought Iheanacho was OK first half - not great, not bad. But he and Vardy carried a goal threat - and the rest of the team, conducted by Tielemans (mainly), Perez & Ndidi, were using possession confidently and creatively.

 

Can't blame Rodgers for the players' cock-ups and the jury is out on why we crumbled after conceding the first (though again it speaks of fragile confidence).....but if we'd carried on as per the 1st half, we'd have probably been at least 2 up by the hour and Bournemouth would have lost hope. 

 

Rodgers now faces a massive psychological rebuilding job. If we're competitive in these next 3 games, I'll take my hat off to him, because he's got his work cut out after the nature of that capitulation....... 

 

 

[HybridFox]

Just picturing HT and the players coming back down the tunnel relatively happy with a good half's work. Iheanacho knowing he got the assist only to be told he wasn't having his best game and is being subbed off for a midfielder. How demoralizing and potentially alienating is that

[EastAnglianFox]

4 minutes ago, TK95 said:

Just picturing HT and the players coming back down the tunnel relatively happy with a good half's work. Iheanacho knowing he got the assist only to be told he wasn't having his best game and is being subbed off for a midfielder. How demoralizing and potentially alienating is that

 

Yep, just said similar in another thread. 

 

I think like many that Kelechi is pretty fragile as it is when it comes to confidence so I'd say that tonight has probably finished him off for the season... And who can blame him? 

Edited 12 July 2020 by EastAnglianFox

[Leicester_Loyal]

44 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I actually cannot believe he has blamed Iheanacho? What space was he leaving? The man was playing up front for fcuk sake. Is Rodgers for real? This was an opportunity for him to be honest and a little personable and he's proven himself to be anything but tonight. Not acceptable 

 

29 minutes ago, EastAnglianFox said:

 

Ive said it in another thread Ric but the fact he's not taking responsibility for tonight has left me even more fvcking livid than I was. 

 

Imagine now if your Kelechi, what has hearing that done to his already probable fragile confidence?

 

I was ready to nip it in the bud if he accepted responsibility but now I'm more fvcked off than I have been for years

Agreed.

 

I could forgive him if he came out and said I made a mistake, I apologise, I'll try and learn from it (like Kasper did). But to blame Iheanacho? Ask anyone who was watching that game, we were playing fine, we had control of the game and Iheanacho was playing ok, not brilliantly, but well enough to stay on the pitch. I'll never forgive Rodgers for what he's done and said today, there's no going back from some things and the worst thing is, if I feel like that, imagine how Iheanacho or some of the players feel.

 

It's gonna take a hell of a lot to turn this rot around now, we're in for a bumpy ride.

[irishfoxkev]

3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

I agree that it's easy to be wise with hindsight - and that sometimes it could have been the right decision to protect the 1-0, but.........

 

The reason why it seemed wrong today was not about tactics, it was about psychology:

- Our psychology and Bournemouth's psychology

 

- Bournemouth's self-confidence looked absolutely shot in that first half, understandably given recent form, injuries etc. Plus we'd given them the runaround & they were lucky to be only 1 down.

- Our self-confidence has been shaky for months, but we'd had a couple of decent results & had performed well in the 1st half

 

If we'd stayed on the front foot & carried on dominating possession, there looked little risk of conceding  and a high chance of scoring a second, which would almost certainly have caused them to collapse psychologically & given us a further boost.

 

Never mind the tactics. When you desperately need confidence, have been performing in a confidence-restoring way & have your vulnerable opponent on the ropes, it makes no sense to back off and change things.

It helped Bournemouth psychologically (even before Kasper and Caglar's meltdowns) and undermined us psychologically.

 

I thought Iheanacho was OK first half - not great, not bad. But he and Vardy carried a goal threat - and the rest of the team, conducted by Tielemans (mainly), Perez & Ndidi, were using possession confidently and creatively.

 

Can't blame Rodgers for the players' cock-ups and the jury is out on why we crumbled after conceding the first (though again it speaks of fragile confidence).....but if we'd carried on as per the 1st half, we'd have probably been at least 2 up by the hour and Bournemouth would have lost hope. 

 

Rodgers now faces a massive psychological rebuilding job. If we're competitive in these next 3 games, I'll take my hat off to him, because he's got his work cut out after the nature of that capitulation....... 

 

 

And don’t forget their best defender Ake was taken off injured close to half time....for first time I’ve lost faith in Brendan 

[Leicester_Loyal]

15 minutes ago, irishfoxkev said:

And don’t forget their best defender Ake was taken off injured close to half time....for first time I’ve lost faith in Brendan 

Yeah, I really can't see a way back for him after this, it feels like Palace at home which was Puels last game for us.

[Charl91]

47 minutes ago, Webbo said:

As I've said to the many replies I've had, it's easy to be clever with hindsight.

As has been said by pretty much everyone - both now and at the time of the substitution - there was no hindsight needed, it was an absolutely terrible decision.

 

Though we do have the benefit of hindsight from most games in 2020 to know that we've looked absolutely toothless with Vardy up front by himself. Which, surprise surprise, is exactly what happened. Again.

[Chrysalis]

53 minutes ago, Webbo said:

As I've said to the many replies I've had, it's easy to be clever with hindsight.

For reference I questioned the sub at start of 2nd half on FF. Its there to be googled.

Also on whatsapp to friends.

 

It made zero sense, we had the momentum and nacho has been key for us in been able to score again.

 

Piper on the post match radio even said if nacho wasnt having a perfect game, he should have been kept on as he was part of a working system, sometimes subs should be made for merits of the team rather than individual performances.

Edited 12 July 2020 by Chrysalis

[inckley fox]

34 minutes ago, Vestan Pance said:

I messaged several people when I saw the substitution saying it was a huge gamble. I'm no football tactical genius. 

You didn't need to be. It was obviously a very weird, very negative substitution. His second negative substitution of the game, you could argue, even though the first was more understandable. And he's a manager who for quite some time now has been prone to very weird decisions which have subsequently, and predictably, not worked out. His interventions, more often than not recently, are counter-productive.

 

That's before we get round to talking about the way we actually play, which is hardly enterprising.

 

If the manager's past record gave no cause for concern that he might, at this level, get into a rut from which there's no escape, then I'd be feel more assured than I do right now. Instead it feels like a case of the guy who inherited a talented young squad and was tasked with bringing the best out of it - but then failed to add to it, employed a style which opponents learnt to play against, over-complicated his team management, and ended up falling short.

 

On top of all that, you can't possibly watch a performance like that and feel confident that we're not well on our way into a serious slump. If the pattern of the past 6 months is replicated over the next 6 months, we'll find ourselves at the wrong end of the table by the end of the year.

 

All of that said, we're still at the stage where none of this needs to be a catastrophe (just as we were at 1-1, and 1-2 today, in fact). It can be turned around and this can still go down as a great season, rather than a false dawn and a Taylor-esque collapse.

 

But we can't ignore the possibility that this could be a serious slump. And if we're to avert it, everyone - from the manager down - needs to take a long hard look at themselves. I suspect that if Rodgers were truly a top manager we'd have had this moment of reflection after the Brighton debacle, when things were less desperate, but there you go. Let's hope he's a quick learner!

[inckley fox]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

As I've said to the many replies I've had, it's easy to be clever with hindsight.

But you didn't need hindsight. It was obviously daft at the time! And it was obviously not working for a good ten minutes before we conceded. So I don't see where hindsight comes into it.

[FoyleFox]

Why did he take off Iheanacho

I haven't got a fuching clue. 

 

I thought he was linking up play well. I've not seen a comment from anyone yet that thought it was a good idea. Whatever Brendan's plan was, it failed spectacularly. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

As I’ve said, you can’t excuse the players but to add a bit on Rodgers, that sub on 45 mins was an ego thing. He likes being liked by the plaudits. There was no player on that pitch that needed to be taken off at half time. You take a player off if they’re having an absolute stinker or you leave it till the 60th minute. We are stuck with these players and this manager which is shame for us. They’re so weak and egotistical it makes me sad. It’s so annoying. They’ll scrape a 1-0 in the future come out with their usual media bullshit and think this has all been forgotten. You gave away one of the best leads in premier league history you arseholes. And some of their agents are talking about them going to Barcelona and Man United the **** off.

[Gamble92]

I'm still struggling to work out why he'd almost call out Iheanacho in that interview but then praise others. I totally get not slagging off Kasper because he gets us points alot more than he loses us them and it's right that he doesn't put the blame on players.

 

But he never properly takes responsibility himself either. It's always about how the team is suddenly not good enough or questioning their intensity or mentality. Too often it feels like he's saying i know we've been crap but i'm doing amazing just to have us in 4th. And he's spun that line until we have eventually dropped out of it. 

 

Agreed, if you watched us no you'd say that we are miles off top 4 quality. But up until January it would be an outright lie to say we weren't the 2nd best team in the league, and just mid table form from lockdown until now would have seen us home. Getting 2 wins in about 10 games isn't good enough, and excusing it with previous form is a poor get out from Rodgers. 

[Tuna]

1 hour ago, Free Falling Foxes said:

BR will learn from his mistakes - I just wonder how many mistakes it'll take.

To do that he needs to first recognize his mistakes. His post match comments suggest otherwise.

[SixtiesFox]

According to Rodger's post match comments he saw the need to strengthen our defences. Incredible, This against a team with no offence and completely devoid of confidence. As others have pointed out it made no sense. We just needed to maintain the high press and stay on the front foot as they were being panicked into making mistake after mistake. The negative changes threw away the huge psychological advantage we'd established in the first half and the momentum of the game shifted. As a result, it had become glaringly obvious that they'd become a threat to equalize long before the meltdown occurred. It was a tactical 'disaster class'! 

[LCFCbwoi]

Rodgers post match comments about Iheanacho really worries me,

 

The past 3 managers all lost the dressing room at a similar point in their managerial career, and with him not taking responsibility for his inept actions, this could potentially have a major effect on where we finish at the end of the season. We could realistically finish this season not picking up another point, and with 2 of these games being massive six pointers against Sheffield United and Tottenham, there is a major chance we might not even make Europa.

 

Spurs are 8th currently, 7 points behind us with Newcastle (A), Leicester (H), and Palace (A) with 9 points a big possibility.  

Sheff United are 7th currently, 5 points behind us with Leicester (H), Everton (H) and Southampton (A) with only 6 points potentially needed.

 

Our return since lockdown will worry the biggest optimist in the club, however I honestly believe today could be a defining moment in our season. The treatment of Nacho, even if we went on to win that game was baffling. It clearly had an effect on not only the system in the second half, but also the players mentality. Imagine going in at half time after a dominating first half, restricting your opponents to one shot and one touch in your box, and then your manager goes and drags off one of your players for not playing well? Without Maddison in the side, Iheanacho has helped fill that void between the midfield and Vardy, however his early exit has become a really weird recurring theme recently. I really hope this doesn't alienate Nacho as he still has loads of potential and has shown that  A LOT this season.

 

I pray we'll be in Europe next season, but i fear for the clubs future if that isn't achieved 

[The whole world smiles]

The fact that he has come out and said to the press that he took him off because he was having a bad game is probably the most worrying thing for me. 

 

1. Because its a lie, kel was one of our best players and the front 3 looked very dangerous together. 

 

2. Because it shows he doesn't want to take responsibility for what in my opinion was heavily his fault. The change completely surrenderd momentum to them. 

 

3. In avoiding responsibility he is happy to throw one of our talented under the bus in the media. Kel didn't have a bad game brendan, you did. 

[NaijaFox]

4 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

The substitution nor the change in system didn’t lose us that game. We took off a £25 million player for an £18 million player. We were playing the side bottom of the league who just had their best player stretched off. Let’s be frank, the side, on the pitch got nervous, made a mistake after mistake and then gave it in. It’s the players the staff the lot of them. The defining moment cannot be attributed to one sub. That collapse was Taylor esque - there is something very wrong with the mentality.

Respectfully disagree.

 

The substitution and the system change were the primary pieces of the tumbling dominoes that lost us the game by handing the momentum and initiative to a team that had done fuch-all and were being played off the park. If the “the side, on the pitch got nervous” it was because of the boneheaded sub and system change, which substantively indicates that a team that had been playing very well up till then needed to be playing differently (perhaps poorly). 
 

The only issue we had in that first-half (arguably our most dominant since the restart) was converting our chances, so if a substitution was desirable why not a striker? Exactly why did we need to bring on a midfielder when we were not struggling in midfield? The end result of course was that Vardy suddenly became isolated again upfront. Many of us like Brendan, but that substitution together with the system change was inexplicably DUMB!

 

Why change something that’s working? Why stop yourself when the opposition hadn’t been able to? Why snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?!

 

[NaijaFox]

4 hours ago, foxfan92 said:

Only thing I can think of was Perez and Vardy were supposed to be front 2 and give Youri licence to get further forward.

 

I thought straight away it was a bizarre sub though.

 

I was screaming for Brendan to be brave and put Gray on after Cags got sent off when it was 2-1.

 

We needed a win, draw at the very worst. 

 

But even before the first goal we seemed somehow devoid of ideas in the second half. Like we'd found 11 doppelgangers and told the real first team to take the rest of the night off.

 

Not seen the players look so uninterested in going for a second goal before.

 

Yes the Kasper mistake changed the whole game, but even before that we looked less than half the team we were in the first half, and that first half display needed more goals.

 

Luckily, (and I realise Cags missing the games is a huge loss), everything is still in our own hands (even if CAS side with Man City's appeal).

 

It'd be just like Leicester City to lose one of their better performers. Lose to the team everyone else beats. Then beat the harder opposition in the next few games.

 

Keep the faith. Just hope Rodgers learns from his mistakes.

 

 

Doubt it’s the players being “uninterested” than the manager inexplicably trying to defend a 1-0 lead with the substitution and system change, and probably asking the players to be more conservative.

[NaijaFox]

4 hours ago, Webbo said:

You can argue that the tactic didn't work, we conceded 4 goals so obviously it wasn't a great success, but it's pretty standard procedure. anyone can be clever with hindsight.

Dude, he’s being paid 8 million to be clever in foresight. SMH

[NaijaFox]

4 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Bournemouth came out with more vigour. They’re fighting for their lives, we should’ve expected more fight. It was natural. The substitution did not weaken the side in terms of quality. The players on the pitch did. If we had let Kelechi stay on, the nerves of these players came on. Again, I’ll say it. It’s a mental thing. These players know deep down they are mixing with bigger better players and clubs and they can’t take it.

It weakened the side WHERE that quality was needed.

[onekeithweller]

Coz he's a cnut.