Man Utd home

[st albans fox]

14 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Thing is the three hasn’t actually been bad. Like big Nige used to say players win you games, not formations. However, that formation has allowed our width to start generating some attacks. It’s the balance we haven’t got right, but in Rodgers defence he hasn’t had a great deal of time to get it right. I’d be happy to go with a back 3/5 for this one, but the personnel has to be right. If Kevin is fit then perhaps a more midfield heavy approach would be better, because he could sit on the left to give Thomas a hand. 
 

Ultimately our achilles heel is our fragility through the middle, we’re soft, so we need to be able to flood the pitch with bodies and turn the game into a bit of a scrap, all we need is one ball over the top for Vardy to get onto, slab head will not be able to compete. It’s going to take a mammoth effort, but one thing we can’t do is allow United any space in an advanced area at all, other wise the game could well be done in the first 20 minutes. I think they will come to finish the game off before half time, they will just aim to batter us in the first half in hope they go 3 or 4 up before the break. 

the one in front of the three was the problem ....... YT was asked to roam leaving wilf isolated.  so Kane had time to turn to set up son’s run and when Moura broke on Thomas, there was no one to come across and cut him off.  Brendan already commented that we were supposed to get tighter in that area so I presume he will come up with a formation that takes care of this whilst giving away something going forwards ...... he may ask the wing backs to be more aggressive getting up the pitch to compensate (as he did v Brighton but without the back 3 to compensate). That could mean JJ going into the back three and playing Marc RWB if he’s able to play. 

[volpeazzurro]

12 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

All very fair points. We've both missed out confidence, which I think got battered against Man C and Liverpool - I would say the signs of tiredness were there at home to Watford and Norwich, so I think quite a few players have been on the edge for some time, I particularly remember Maddison being absolutely goosed at the end of Watford at home.

Tiredness is an issue for all teams, some of whom have even less strength in depth than us. Wolves for example have played both in the Premiership and Europa League using a small selection of players, just as we did when we won the Premiership,  whats the difference with us? Some teams have had far worse injuries than us including to what they would call their key players also.

 

Regarding the supposed battering against Liverpool and Manchester City, we're not the only ones this season and in any case, what about Southampton against us, that's what you call a real battering, how have they responded since with their manager I would ask? No great change in personnel there either in January transfer window.

 

We can try and make as many excuses as we want but the fact is that for half a season now we've been in relegation form and the points on the board absolutely prove that. The players are all bar Bennett the same albeit we've had the odd injury like everyone else. Fitness levels should also be roughly the same as everyone else unless there is something really awry in training. So their has to be another not so common denominator other than those stated to explain such a catastrophic change from an almost perfect first half of the season.

 

The reason is as clear as the nose on your face. It's the change in playing style which had initially been hugely successful, the deviation from a settled team selection with players in certain tailor- made or preferable positions and poor philosophically minded, over-thought egotistical tactics with poor substitutions thrown in. 

In a nutshell, poor management.

 

If such a drastic demise had occurred under the leadership of Puel, Ranieri, Pearson or Shakespeare there would be total unanimous uproar on here. I suggest that the reason there isn't is partly because of a powerful media message that constantly sings the praises of the perceived to be young messiah of a  homegrown manager whilst at the same time inferring that little Leicester City were so lucky to have landed him. That same simpering media must have also been taken in by Rodgers super  smooth, extremely polite and personable media blarney. Yet ... closer scrutiny of his record somehow just doesn't stack up to this myth of a young up and coming genius of a manager, not least because he's been around quite a long time now using the same old methods producing the eventual same old results. The only thing Rodgers has managed extremely well over a longer period of time thus far is his own career and at that I think he's been exceptional. 

Edited 22 July 2020 by volpeazzurro

[Deeg67]

1 hour ago, OntarioFox said:

We're one point behind Chelsea with a current Goal Difference 13 better than theirs. They lose both their remaining fixtures and a draw is enough for both us and Man Utd. to claim 3rd and 4th at their expense, regardless of the result in the West Ham game.

 

Given they have Liverpool and Wolves in those two games, it's actually a feasible scenario. They only need one more point to make a win the only scenario good enough for us to leapfrog them, though.

Well, fair enough - that's certainly more likely than Manure losing to a West Ham with nothing to play for.  I'll be surprised if Chelsea don't dredge at least a point out of those two matches though.

[st albans fox]

7 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Well, fair enough - that's certainly more likely than Manure losing to a West Ham with nothing to play for.  I'll be surprised if Chelsea don't dredge at least a point out of those two matches though.

I think they get one tonight .....Liverpool only want to protect their unbeaten record and Chelsea have played well against them this season. 

[Deeg67]

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I think they get one tonight .....Liverpool only want to protect their unbeaten record and Chelsea have played well against them this season. 

Our only hope is that Liverpool is stoked to try and perform when they're getting the trophy.  But with no fans that doesn't seem all that big a deal.

Edited 22 July 2020 by Deeg67

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Our only hope is that Liverpool is stoked to try and perform when they're getting the trophy.  But with no fans that doesn't seem all that big a deal.

Arsenal showed last night that once you lose a bit of motivation it’s tough to get a result .......

[Scotch]

1 hour ago, Pliskin said:

Thing is the three hasn’t actually been bad. Like big Nige used to say players win you games, not formations. However, that formation has allowed our width to start generating some attacks. It’s the balance we haven’t got right, but in Rodgers defence he hasn’t had a great deal of time to get it right. I’d be happy to go with a back 3/5 for this one, but the personnel has to be right. If Kevin is fit then perhaps a more midfield heavy approach would be better, because he could sit on the left to give Thomas a hand. 
 

Ultimately our achilles heel is our fragility through the middle, we’re soft, so we need to be able to flood the pitch with bodies and turn the game into a bit of a scrap, all we need is one ball over the top for Vardy to get onto, slab head will not be able to compete. It’s going to take a mammoth effort, but one thing we can’t do is allow United any space in an advanced area at all, other wise the game could well be done in the first 20 minutes. I think they will come to finish the game off before half time, they will just aim to batter us in the first half in hope they go 3 or 4 up before the break. 

Like me and you spoke about after the spurs game, three at the back isn't the issue, it is how high they play. 

 

I would go for three at the back, play them deeper and tuck our wingbacks in to play narrow. Force Utd to go wide and invite the cross into the box which should play into the hands of our back three strengths. 

[Bob Weasel Fox]

10 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

That time of the week where I start asking “what if” again. Going to miss this next week. Whatever happens tomorrow or Sunday, it’s great to be part of these scenarios. Never in my Leicester supporting life did I think we’d win the league. Never did I think we’d be involved with the “big” teams again in massive games such as this. Despite the downturn in form post Christmas, it’s great to see our name up there again.

Well said 

[Stuntman_Mike]

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Edited 22 July 2020 by Stuntman_Mike

[filbertway]

I find it odd that people want Hamzah on Fernandes. Its gonna be hard enough with 11 men. Put him on a man marking job and it'll be 10 v 11 before half time. Ferenandes is one of the biggest divers I've seen

[chris_lcfc_85]

If Chelsea win tonight and United smash west ham then Sunday will near enough be a nothing game.

The points thing is one thing but the way we've surrendered our goal difference is criminal really....

Lets hope this isnt the case of course but we're all just clutching straws for as long as possible 

[Ric Flair]

8 hours ago, Nick said:

Such a shame wet spam have nothing to play for anymore.

They don't want to be losing by more than a couple of goals though as a big win for Watford against them on Sunday would make it a little tighter than it ought to be. Obviously a 14 goal swing is not going to happen but if Utd stick 5 past them tonight then it would make a few sit up and worry.

[Collymore]

We need to be setting up ultra compact and hitting these on the break, almost like 2015/16 preferably with a back 4. If we try to play Brendan's ususal game we're going to get destroyed with that defence. 

 

 

[Guest bennytwohats]

57 minutes ago, chris_lcfc_85 said:

If Chelsea win tonight and United smash west ham then Sunday will near enough be a nothing game.

The points thing is one thing but the way we've surrendered our goal difference is criminal really....

Lets hope this isnt the case of course but we're all just clutching straws for as long as possible 

They go hand in hand unfortunately. It would be difficult to have the results we have had and not surrender our goal difference. Bournemouth really was a bad day for us in a number of ways.

[Guest bennytwohats]

On the game itself, I’m trying not to think too much about it until we know the outcome of tonight. A hard fought game with West Ham would be ideal for us, hopefully not giving them a chance to test key players and to keep their goal difference to within 2 of ours.

 

if we can go in to Sunday knowing any sort of win will do, then I’ll have some cause for optimism. If we need to win by a 2 goal margin or more I feel that mentally that’s just a huge obstacle to overcome going into the game.

[Ric Flair]

26 minutes ago, Collymore said:

We need to be setting up ultra compact and hitting these on the break, almost like 2015/16 preferably with a back 4. If we try to play Brendan's ususal game we're going to get destroyed with that defence. 

 

 

Have we ever done this under Rodgers? Play pure counter attacking football I mean? This is why our record under him vs the better sides is so worryingly poor, we play right in to the hands of more ruthless teams. He has 2 styles of playing that he likes to vary, the high press and quick passing football or the slow possession based football where we pass pass pass in the hope of wearing teams down but that only works when we are full of confidence and don't get nervous with the process, we saw this done well in November and December when on a great run and teams sat back on us but we knew we'd still find breakthroughs in the 2nd half to win games.

 

With the defence we have available we really need to be setting traps ourselves and conceding possession to Utd as they are one of the best counter attacking teams about at the minute, we at the very least need to be much more direct and not get too tempted to push our centre halves up past the half way line, not when we seem to be so sloppy in our passing.

[chris_lcfc_85]

30 minutes ago, bennytwohats said:

They go hand in hand unfortunately. It would be difficult to have the results we have had and not surrender our goal difference. Bournemouth really was a bad day for us in a number of ways.

Not exactly.....

We conceded 7 against spurs and Bournemouth. Losing 2-1 to Bournemouth and 1-0 to spurs may of made a difference as we would then still have the goal difference advantage 

[HighPeakFox]

2 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Tiredness is an issue for all teams, some of whom have even less strength in depth than us. Wolves for example have played both in the Premiership and Europa League using a small selection of players, just as we did when we won the Premiership,  whats the difference with us? Some teams have had far worse injuries than us including to what they would call their key players also.

 

Regarding the supposed battering against Liverpool and Manchester City, we're not the only ones this season and in any case, what about Southampton against us, that's what you call a real battering, how have they responded since with their manager I would ask? No great change in personnel there either in January transfer window.

 

We can try and make as many excuses as we want but the fact is that for half a season now we've been in relegation form and the points on the board absolutely prove that. The players are all bar Bennett the same albeit we've had the odd injury like everyone else. Fitness levels should also be roughly the same as everyone else unless there is something really awry in training. So their has to be another not so common denominator other than those stated to explain such a catastrophic change from an almost perfect first half of the season.

 

The reason is as clear as the nose on your face. It's the change in playing style which had initially been hugely successful, the deviation from a settled team selection with players in certain tailor- made or preferable positions and poor philosophically minded, over-thought egotistical tactics with poor substitutions thrown in. 

In a nutshell, poor management.

 

If such a drastic demise had occurred under the leadership of Puel, Ranieri, Pearson or Shakespeare there would be total unanimous uproar on here. I suggest that the reason there isn't is partly because of a powerful media message that constantly sings the praises of the perceived to be young messiah of a  homegrown manager whilst at the same time inferring that little Leicester City were so lucky to have landed him. That same simpering media must have also been taken in by Rodgers super  smooth, extremely polite and personable media blarney. Yet ... closer scrutiny of his record somehow just doesn't stack up to this myth of a young up and coming genius of a manager, not least because he's been around quite a long time now using the same old methods producing the eventual same old results. The only thing Rodgers has managed extremely well over a longer period of time thus far is his own career and at that I think he's been exceptional. 

Firstly, I respect your points of view expressed here - that doesn't mean I agree with them all, and I hope you can forgive me differing and not seeing things as clearly, or at least clearly in the way that you do.

 

2 things - I seek to explain, rather than excuse, as I cannot be doing with all the speculation and confident assertions about BR's ego etc. And secondly, there's never unanimous anything on FT (perhaps apart from after the death of Vichai), so please spare me that line of argument. In the case of Pearson at the very least, there would be many people defending his record.

 

 

[Ian Nacho]

Hamza is a must.

[Pliskin]

3 hours ago, Foxy_Bear said:

Like me and you spoke about after the spurs game, three at the back isn't the issue, it is how high they play. 

 

I would go for three at the back, play them deeper and tuck our wingbacks in to play narrow. Force Utd to go wide and invite the cross into the box which should play into the hands of our back three strengths. 

Pretty much like we did in the title winning season. I agree we need to change our approach for this game. 

[Ricey]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Have we ever done this under Rodgers? Play pure counter attacking football I mean? This is why our record under him vs the better sides is so worryingly poor, we play right in to the hands of more ruthless teams. He has 2 styles of playing that he likes to vary, the high press and quick passing football or the slow possession based football where we pass pass pass in the hope of wearing teams down but that only works when we are full of confidence and don't get nervous with the process, we saw this done well in November and December when on a great run and teams sat back on us but we knew we'd still find breakthroughs in the 2nd half to win games.

 

With the defence we have available we really need to be setting traps ourselves and conceding possession to Utd as they are one of the best counter attacking teams about at the minute, we at the very least need to be much more direct and not get too tempted to push our centre halves up past the half way line, not when we seem to be so sloppy in our passing.

We tried the low block away at Man Utd earlier in the season and away at Man City, but the problem was that we just sat off them. It's one thing to sit deep and compact, but you still have to be aggressive to break up their flow and launch counter attacks. In both of those games we were so tame and just constantly backed away.

 

Our best chance on Sunday, if we need a result, is to a make a nuisance of ourselves. Get in their faces and make life hard for them. Get in the refs face as well and don't let him fall for the bullshit that Man Utd like to pull.

 

If we aren't fired up for this one I don't know when we ever will.

[Tuna]

4 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Of course, Martin Tyler and Gary Neville more than likely. They will sit for 90 minutes with a finger up each other arsehole staring at a picture of Fergie. 

The smug gloating from Tyler and Neville will be absolutely unbearable.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

Agree with everyone saying we must keep it tight and look to counter.

 

If Brendan doesn't set up this way I think a lot of us will lose some more faith in him, because it's clear as day we're just the sort of side that will concede 5/6 to Utd playing our usual style. They will have a field day.

 

I admire Brendan for his passion and self-belief to play an expansive game,and would rather watch this than a Mourinho or Hodgson team every day of the week. However there comes a point where you have got to be pragmatic, especially with so much on the line.

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, Ricey said:

We tried the low block away at Man Utd earlier in the season and away at Man City, but the problem was that we just sat off them. It's one thing to sit deep and compact, but you still have to be aggressive to break up their flow and launch counter attacks. In both of those games we were so tame and just constantly backed away.

 

Our best chance on Sunday, if we need a result, is to a make a nuisance of ourselves. Get in their faces and make life hard for them. Get in the refs face as well and don't let him fall for the bullshit that Man Utd like to pull.

 

If we aren't fired up for this one I don't know when we ever will.

I missed the Man Utd game as I was driving back from Cornwall but that team selection and performance sounded very similar to what we'd tried to do in a few other games at the start of the season and it didn't work I agree. The Man City game was weird, both home and away I felt like we were in the game but that away game after launching the perfect counter attack to take the lead we faced a Man City side so pumped up they were very difficult to handle, yet we still had 2 very good chances to equalise in the 2nd half, one of which even after the poor miss should have been a penalty on Barnes. I'm not saying we should approach the game on Sunday in exactly this manner and we are without some crucial players at the back, I just worry for our team shape if we go to aggressive, it'll be a fine balance.

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Arriba Los Zorros said:

Agree with everyone saying we must keep it tight and look to counter.

 

If Brendan doesn't set up this way I think a lot of us will lose some more faith in him, because it's clear as day we're just the sort of side that will concede 5/6 to Utd playing our usual style. They will have a field day.

 

I admire Brendan for his passion and self-belief to play an expansive game,and would rather watch this than a Mourinho or Hodgson team every day of the week. However there comes a point where you have got to be pragmatic, especially with so much on the line.

He gets this reputation from hammerings in Europe when managing Celtic and from the poor results we have had vs the top 4-5 but then you see how he set us up vs Wolves at home on the 1st game of this season or vs Brighton where he played Ndidi and Mendy and you have to question if he does always stick with the same principles. I personally think he tries to be too clever at times and when it doesn't work and confidence is low then too many ideas and options leads to a lack of direction and execution.