Cengiz Signs!

[AKCJ]

Not good enough.

[Guest bss9401]

If Under is willing to put in the hard work with regard to his all round game then £20 mill and an average salary is a good deal for our squad.

For me Under has shown enough to suggest that he can influence games. Last night was a fair example. The dynamic definitely shifted in our favour once he, Hamza and Iheanacho came on. Ironically all three are subject to current and recent scrutiny. 

Hard work ahead for Under if he fancies the challenge and work required by the coaching team but it's a yes from me.

[deep blue]

37 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Well if he does have it in the locker we haven’t seen it. 

I don't know who your "we" embraces, but it doesn't include me.  There is plenty in Under's locker, and it could be very useful to us, but in recent months he's been given very little opportunity to meld into our style in a match.  Being thrown on for a few minutes, or when our play is ragged and it's nigh on impossible to receive the sort of pass that best suits your game, makes it very difficult for him to learn how to integrate into our teamwork.

[foxinsocks]

4 minutes ago, deep blue said:

I don't know who your "we" embraces, but it doesn't include me.  There is plenty in Under's locker, and it could be very useful to us, but in recent months he's been given very little opportunity to meld into our style in a match.  Being thrown on for a few minutes, or when our play is ragged and it's nigh on impossible to receive the sort of pass that best suits your game, makes it very difficult for him to learn how to integrate into our teamwork.

surely he has to earn the game time... I like him... but I presume Brendan is underwhelmed.

[lgfualol]

On the bright side of Ünder's Leicester experience, with no fans at King Power he most likely wont have to endure boos when being subbed on like Nacho.

[Tom12345]

45 minutes ago, deep blue said:

I don't know who your "we" embraces, but it doesn't include me.  There is plenty in Under's locker, and it could be very useful to us, but in recent months he's been given very little opportunity to meld into our style in a match.  Being thrown on for a few minutes, or when our play is ragged and it's nigh on impossible to receive the sort of pass that best suits your game, makes it very difficult for him to learn how to integrate into our teamwork.

I think your description is more fair and correct reflection of what has happened so far. Under did well when he played the whole game against Brentford. He scored one, nearly scored another, and provided a great long ball to assist the assist for Maddison’s third goal. He has also shown his quick pace and there has been plenty of examples already in other games where he made dazzling runs hugging the line resulting in good crosses (one I remember was a great run to the byline and then cross to Perez who should have done better to score - cannot remember which game now). On his debut, and the game after that, he had provided two excellent assists (remember that run and assist at Arsenal?).  He clearly has some things in his locker - I agree. The question is why is he not favoured by Brendan. Complete speculation, but it may be that he is a bit too keen - remember how he tried to take Maddison off freekicks a few times; I tend to think that was against instructions as Maddison (as many has complained about, he has a monopoly over freekicks and corners regardless of form or how good or bad they are). As after that, he was benched. Coincidence maybe. Thought though Brendan said himself he likes players with a bit of arrogance like Maddison. So it could well also be an issue of personality clash or culture.

Edited 19 February 2021 by Tom12345

[fuchsntf]

12 hours ago, frany104 said:

They don’t try and beat a player because they physically cannot. They haven’t got it in the locker. Under has and that’s why he tries it. 
 

 

Anlbrighton  does and has, & in his last 4 games, Drove into the middle & Let Off a shot...

Edited 19 February 2021 by fuchsntf

[Facecloth]

12 hours ago, frany104 said:

They don’t try and beat a player because they physically cannot. They haven’t got it in the locker. Under has and that’s why he tries it. 
 

 

Massive difference between having it in your locker and thinking you have it in your locker. He tries it because he thinks he can do it, in reality he can't 

[Vardinio'sCat]

Feel a bit sorry for him, he is being compared on his workrate to 2 players who are known to be very committed runners out of possession. I think we should be comparing him with Barnes, who works hard but is not perfect defensively.

 

Perhaps Cengiz's best shot is if Harvey or Madders pick up a knock, and we look short of creativity. Or maybe we could try him up front?

[honeybradger]

1 minute ago, pmcla26 said:

You wouldn’t want to disrupt the balance of our team for Demarai Gray so why would you want to do it for Under? 

We dont really have a balanced attack though, all the action comes through barnes on the left at the moment. If under isnt the answer then fair enough but we badly need a right sided attacker who can provide regular goals and assists as well as the stability you talk about. If one of barnes, vardy, maddison, ricardo, castagne gets injured then albrighton/perez are also rendered useless as we dont have enough going forwards to break teams down.

[filbertway]

Still think he's got plenty to offer us. Unfortunately the only way he gets a proper opportunity over 4 or 5 games is if Perez and Albrighton get injured. Having that pace on both wings for the entirety of games makes us a constant threat, even when defending. The ball gets to Albrighton and his first thought is "let's try this chip to Vardy that works about 1% of the time". 

[Deeg67]

21 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Still think he's got plenty to offer us. Unfortunately the only way he gets a proper opportunity over 4 or 5 games is if Perez and Albrighton get injured. Having that pace on both wings for the entirety of games makes us a constant threat, even when defending. The ball gets to Albrighton and his first thought is "let's try this chip to Vardy that works about 1% of the time". 

Albrighton has been absolutely dire the last two matches and Perez is hurt, so in theory you'd think this would be his chance.  But it seems clear Brendan would run Amartey or Fuchs out on RW before he'd start Under in a league game.

[filbertway]

2 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Albrighton has been absolutely dire the last two matches and Perez is hurt, so in theory you'd think this would be his chance.  But it seems clear Brendan would run Amartey or Fuchs out on RW before he'd start Under in a league game.

Good point. Ricardo RW and Amartey RB seems more likely than Under getting a chance. I'd love to know what he can do to prove himself, without a fair crack at game time I'm not sure what he can do. 20 mins here and there isn't much help.

[Tom12345]

27 minutes ago, honeybradger said:

We dont really have a balanced attack though, all the action comes through barnes on the left at the moment. If under isnt the answer then fair enough but we badly need a right sided attacker who can provide regular goals and assists as well as the stability you talk about. If one of barnes, vardy, maddison, ricardo, castagne gets injured then albrighton/perez are also rendered useless as we dont have enough going forwards to break teams down.

Just a reminder of glimpses of what he showed us earlier:

 

Has potential.

[Dahnsouff]

He needs much better decision making  Maybe this is due to lack of game time, not sure.

[Deeg67]

Yes, he needs to decide he can impact matches without playing in them.

[filbertway]

10 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

He needs much better decision making  Maybe this is due to lack of game time, not sure.

I think it's being eager to make an impression, I think if given an opportunity to build on pitch relationships with the players that we'd see him start to mellow and not constantly look for that  cut in and shot.

 

I actually quite like to see a player taking shots on, we don't do it enough. His 2 assists for Vardy in the league have been examples of how unselfish and clever he can be. I imagine the language barrier has made it hard for him to make an impact in training and develop those relationships.

 

Perez and Albrighton know the language, know the lads and seem to have pretty good personalities, so I can see why Rodgers would be sub-consciously biased towards these two.

 

Soy had a year with us before he was trusted and even then..the fact we wanted to sign another CB makes me wonder if Rodgers saw him as a 3rd choice.

 

It just seems a shame that we have this player who looks to have the potential do well not given a fair crack. If he was given 4 or 5 starts and looked totally ineffectual and not suited to us then I could accept that and say fair play, we move on. I just can't write a player off that's not given a fair chance and he'll always be one I'll wonder about like Kram.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

17 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Yes, he needs to decide he can impact matches without playing in them.

He has no future here unless he can develop telekinetic superpowers.

[UniFox21]

He's clearly an incredibly talented player. It's his decision making, few times in last few games he's gone for the spectacular or tried to force something that wasn't there. 

[Royston.]

Rodgers goes a few games without using him, then he is thrown on as a sub to "make things happen"

 

Its easy to see why he tends to do so much on his own and he wont learn otherwise if he is only playing 20 minutes here and there.

[TJB-fox]

Our attacking options are far from balanced. Area of the pitch that needs real work and continually holds back the side. At least Barnes is pulling through 

[honeybradger]

1 hour ago, pmcla26 said:

We do have a balanced attack.

 

Barnes and Vardy are the pace and threat, Maddison the creator, and Tielemans and Albrighton/Perez keep our passing game ticking and offer defensive cover.
 

That is a balanced attack in my eyes. 

To me our attack is incoherent, i just dont see any chemistry between our front 3 options, barnes likes to run at defenders, vardy likes to run behind defenders, by the time barnes decides to pass the ball the option to vardy has gone most of the time. Perez passes to vardy once in a blue moon and i dont think ive ever seen him and barnes linking up, albrighton and vardy are the only two of our front 3 options with a semblance of chemistry for me as albrighton likes to get his head up and find vardy as soon as he gets the ball, against a low block it ends up being albrighton crossing to vardy against 4 defenders which doesnt really work. Tielemans needs runners ahead of him, and not just vardy, the assist for maddison against southampton, the ball over the top to Under against arsenal, this is what he excels at, Perez and albrighton dont offer this kind of movement which completely stunts Tieleman's creativity in my opinion. Maddison as well needs movement in front of him to play well, only barnes and vardy offer this to him, i think we would see maddison perform much better if he had another option in front of him.

[Deeg67]

1 hour ago, pmcla26 said:

We do have a balanced attack.

 

Barnes and Vardy are the pace and threat, Maddison the creator, and Tielemans and Albrighton/Perez keep our passing game ticking and offer defensive cover.
 

That is a balanced attack in my eyes. 

https://www.aop.org.uk/

[Lambert09]

21 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

‘Only Barnes and Vardy offer this to him’ (in reference to options Maddison has in front of him)

 

We can’t have all of our attackers as flair players or runners in behind. Furthermore, we can’t really play with more than 2 players ahead of Maddison, otherwise you’ll be putting Maddison in holding midfield. The way we set up currently is the way that it should be, Barnes and Vardy offering the threat in behind. Look at Liverpool, two runners in behind in Mane and Sale, same at Man City with their two wide men and United with Rashford and one of Martial and Cavani (rarely been effective as a trio so far). 
 

I don’t really understand what people expect our attack to be. We can’t carry flair players or wingers in the hope that they produce one moment of magic when football is about the whole 90 minutes. It’s like everyone just wants us to be tactically imbalanced and offensively top heavy.
 

The fact of the matter is you need players like Albrighton, Perez, Praet who keep it nice and tidy to allow players like Barnes, Vardy and Maddison to flourish. I’d argue that you’d suppress the talents of the other 3 by starting a player like Under on the right who doesn’t compliment them in the same way that Perez and Albrighton do.

 

I do wonder sometimes if a lot of people on this forum understand the basics of football or whether it’s just simply all about flair and attacking (not necessarily talking about yourself, but see this same argument going around in circles and people just seem to think Rodgers is being conservative) 

 

Look at Man City’s team in the early 10s. They still had Milner playing on the wing despite all their attacking talent. Why? Because you need players like that to help fix it all together. We laugh at West Ham and Everton for trying to put together a team of wingers/flair players in the past and yet we can’t see the fundamental aspects of why it doesn’t work. 
 

Attacking play isn’t just about skills and goals, it’s about pressing, keeping the shape from the front and retaining possession to carve out a guilt edge opportunity. Okay, we could be better, but I think we need to temper expectations - we don’t have £50m to go out and buy a world class striker or a winger who we can afford to carry at the expense of others doing the dirty work - I can almost guarantee you had Under started most games on the right this season that Barnes wouldn’t be getting the numbers he has this season. Why? Because otherwise he’s gonna have to start looking over his shoulder a bit more because there’s no balance. 

Exactly. Albrighton has never been as popular here as he should be, the simple reason is that people can’t understand his role. 
 

“If you are not flair you are not a good winger”
 

I had a spat with people complaining about him being a squad player in the summer. There are very few wide players that are as good going backwards as they are forwards. 
 

I have a mate who’s a big spurs fan and he said that Arron Lennon was exactly the same. Unreal at defending and added so much to the team but never appreciated because he wasn’t contributing enough attacking returns. But he allowed vandevaart and co to really flourish.
 

 

[volpeazzurro]

I think he's at least worth a full game with Ricardo behind him before we can fully judge. Twenty minutes here and there, desperate to impress with a makeshift or debutant full back behind him is hardly a recipe for him to shine. Players that are prepared to take the opposition on aren't always successful every time yet we moan when no one even tries? If he, given the opportunity, could form a relationship on that right hand side with Ricardo they could be devastating. You could hardly describe the relationship between Ricardo and Perez as devastating or remotely successful and that's been afforded far too many chances, so what precisely have we got to lose? Agreed, if it's a more defensive approach to a game that is required then Albrighton is probably your man.